HMI
macrumors 65816
Man, at this point, I would buy the D**m company myself, just to make him shut up! Like, it would literally be written into the contract that he never speak or communicate publicly ever again. Just shut up and go away!
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Fortnite Not Coming to iOS in Japan as Epic Games CEO Accuses Apple of 'Obstruction and Lawbreaking'
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You said: "With iOS, Apple provides the OS, dev tools, SDKs, distribution, delivery, credit card fees, secure payment handling, and the audience of millions of users. So - Apple does deserve some revenue to cover this along with a reasonable profit."
So you, me, and Tim Sweeney are completely on the same page actually. Tim suggested Apple charge per review to cover some costs. An idea I'd never thought about. Going to be very interesting what the judges eventually agree is a 'fair' price.
Agree App Store is super convenient! I just want choice. Make iOS like the Mac. Mac is perfect and has my private info and everything is going very well. Very secure OS.
I would never use one.
I still say that’s like walking into a Walmart store and grabbing a can of beans, and taking it to the checkout line and seeing a Target checkout line next to all the Walmart ones, inside of Walmart!! That would be nuts.
I would never use a third-party store ever. Too much info going to too many places. Too many breaches, Apple deserves to be compensated. IAnd I would be willing to bet the prices on apps are not coming down in the UE.
Why are governments only going after phones? Why aren’t they going after consoles?
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I understand your concern I've not discussing a 3rd party store. Just the developers website. Apps like Notion and Spotify can't even be downloaded on the Mac App Store. Very easy to download from their website if you want, if you don't, there are great apps in the Mac App Store. It's choice. Very nice.
Not interested in discussing govt stuff but I assume text messages + GPS location is very juicy info to have access to. Okay have a good one! Pleasure
ProbablyDylan
macrumors 68040
Nominally I think Tim Epic is in the right side of this issue but man he really is kinda annoying about it.
Abazigal
Contributor
There's little evidence to suggest that app prices will come down even if developers paid Apple less commission, or zero. I am still paying the same subscription to apps like Play and Notability even though it's now the 2nd year and Apple is collecting 15% instead of 30% (not complaining; I am happy to support the developers, merely an observation).
When Netflix stopped letting users subscribe from within the app, their monthly prices didn't come down either to compensate for the cut that they no longer had to pay Apple. Netflix simply kept the difference.
IAPs have zero marginal cost, because the underlying asset already exists. If a customer has shown that they are willing to pay $10 for extra gems, the developer will continue to charge $10 even if Apple lowers their cut to 15% or even 0%, because $10 is what maximises profit (because marginal cost = marginal profit in the absence of any fixed costs whatsoever). You are not seeing a cent of that savings regardless.
I have nothing against developers making more money, but I think the point that 30% is a tax on consumers is an argument that needs to die, because it simply isn't true.
jarman92
macrumors 68020
Because the Mac has existed for more than 40 years and the platform is entirely different.
jarman92
macrumors 68020
Yes, because the Mac has existed for 40+ years and the platform is entirely different.
...what? Users "interact with Apple devices" through those Apple devices.
...what? Apple does not ask for or expect any revenue from any websites on any platform.
...what?
Seriously. Now we know why they make games aimed towards 8 year olds. Because Sweeney acts like an 8 year old himself.
jarman92
macrumors 68020
Are the fees Epic charges for access to its own store also "Mafia tactics?"
Abazigal
Contributor
Epic's end game has always been to offer its own App Store on iOS, where they can not only keep 100% of Fortnite IAP revenue, but also host apps from other game developers and charge them a cut.
In this context, I guess even 5% is 5% too many, especially considering the Epic Games Store is still not profitable. How ironic that Tim Sweeney has no qualms about the iOS App Store not receiving a cent from developers, but he baulks when it's his own App Store being taxed in return. 😏
In this context, I guess even 5% is 5% too many, especially considering the Epic Games Store is still not profitable. How ironic that Tim Sweeney has no qualms about the iOS App Store not receiving a cent from developers, but he baulks when it's his own App Store being taxed in return. 😏
If Sweeney is angry then it means Apple must be doing something right.
This would never work.
If it was cheap enough for a small developer to afford (like $49) then it means nothing to big developers like Epic who are basically end up getting free access anyway. If it’s a fee that actually covers real costs (say $1,000) then it wipes out small/indie developers.
Is Sweeney is suggesting it then you know it’s a bad idea for everyone but himself. Besides Daniel Ek of Spotify probably the most entitled billionaire on the planet.
boswald
macrumors 68030
I think I’m going to start calling hemorrhoids “having the Sweeney’s” because they’re equally annoying.
Abazigal
Contributor
Which is why a percentage fee makes the most sense. Those who make more, pay more.
eveluvsrainbows
macrumors 6502a
mafia tactics? what the hell? charging a 5% fee is not “mafia tactics”, give me a break.
Lots of 'what's' from you. I think best to use a 3rd party service to find your answers since you don't understand me. ChatGPT maybe. Yes I get it, you dont trust it. Fine. Wish you all the best!
If it weren't for pressure from greats like Sweeney and govt pressure, Apple would have NEVER done the 'small business program' where if you make less than a million in revenue Apple gets 15%. You're missing the point. We KNOW we are not going to get what we want. You have to ASK for way more to get something. I agree it would never work. That's not the point. It's negotiating and putting pressure. Hope that makes sense. And I hope from now on in your life when you negotiate you ask for more than you think! Go for it! You'll get something more than you expected. Good life rule. Have a good one!
macduke
macrumors G5
Your weekly reminder that Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft all charge 30% for their game stores on their consoles. Never heard him complain much about that.
Abazigal
Contributor
I think people also forget the "no deal" part of "deal or no deal". Apple (or anyone else for that matter), isn't always obligated to meet you in the middle. Sometimes, taking their ball and going home is an option too.
But that's life. Sometimes, you win some, you lose some. 🙂
Every time one of these App Store debates pops up, the same assumption sneaks in unnoticed; that App Store fees are merely a “service charge” imposed on developers. That framing misses the bigger picture.
In practice, the App Store functions less like a payment processor and more like a progressive tax that funds the broader Apple services ecosystem. iOS is not, and should not be, a loss leader propping up hardware margins alone. Ongoing platform development costs real money; security, APIs, frameworks, AI infrastructure, global map data, weather services, and continuous OS updates do not materialize for free after you buy an iPhone.
If iOS is subsidized at all, the App Store is the mechanism that concentrates that subsidy on commercial activity. Developers selling digital goods shoulder more of the burden, while users receive a stable, continuously improving platform without being nickel-and-dimed post-purchase. That is not accidental; it is policy.
So for those arguing that developer costs must be lowered at all costs, the honest follow-up question is this: would you rather Apple raise device prices and start charging directly for things like Maps, AI features, cloud-backed services, or OS upgrades? Because that revenue has to come from somewhere.
This also helps explain why iOS has a far more vibrant app economy than macOS. iOS makes discovery, purchasing, and distribution frictionless through a single, trusted storefront. More downloads, more transactions, more revenue. macOS, by contrast, benefits indirectly from that iOS-scale subsidization while enjoying far looser distribution rules.
You can argue about where the percentages should land, but pretending the App Store is just a toll booth rather than a funding model leads to bad conclusions. That’s my 2¢!
In practice, the App Store functions less like a payment processor and more like a progressive tax that funds the broader Apple services ecosystem. iOS is not, and should not be, a loss leader propping up hardware margins alone. Ongoing platform development costs real money; security, APIs, frameworks, AI infrastructure, global map data, weather services, and continuous OS updates do not materialize for free after you buy an iPhone.
If iOS is subsidized at all, the App Store is the mechanism that concentrates that subsidy on commercial activity. Developers selling digital goods shoulder more of the burden, while users receive a stable, continuously improving platform without being nickel-and-dimed post-purchase. That is not accidental; it is policy.
So for those arguing that developer costs must be lowered at all costs, the honest follow-up question is this: would you rather Apple raise device prices and start charging directly for things like Maps, AI features, cloud-backed services, or OS upgrades? Because that revenue has to come from somewhere.
This also helps explain why iOS has a far more vibrant app economy than macOS. iOS makes discovery, purchasing, and distribution frictionless through a single, trusted storefront. More downloads, more transactions, more revenue. macOS, by contrast, benefits indirectly from that iOS-scale subsidization while enjoying far looser distribution rules.
You can argue about where the percentages should land, but pretending the App Store is just a toll booth rather than a funding model leads to bad conclusions. That’s my 2¢!
Abazigal
Contributor
Why won’t Tim Sweeney just go away? I didn’t like him when he came in and bought a game I was meant to have on steam via kickstarter agreement with a game dev. Yet, he just won’t disappear. Every time I see him around he’s complaining about Steam. Guess now that it’s Apple, it’s a change of pace. The Sweeney curse.
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