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Forum Migration: Upvotes and Retroactive (lack of) Anonymity
- Thread starter arn
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i am curious to see the new system.
hopefully it is a bit faster of the current one (which is tremendously slow at times)
i would ditch the voting system altogether, honestly.
I use it sparingly myself, but maybe with a non-anonymous setup i would use it more.
that said, I am in general against any and all retroactive changes, especially when they apply to privacy issues (which this is to a limited extent).
if people sign up for something, or use a function or service with some clear expectations of how it works, it is wrong and unethical to change the rules after the fact, without them having an option to opt out.
in this case it is not at all a necessary step, nor i can see any benefit from doing it, so i would either transfer the 'votes' AND keeping them anonymous, or not transfer the votes at all
hopefully it is a bit faster of the current one (which is tremendously slow at times)
i would ditch the voting system altogether, honestly.
I use it sparingly myself, but maybe with a non-anonymous setup i would use it more.
that said, I am in general against any and all retroactive changes, especially when they apply to privacy issues (which this is to a limited extent).
if people sign up for something, or use a function or service with some clear expectations of how it works, it is wrong and unethical to change the rules after the fact, without them having an option to opt out.
in this case it is not at all a necessary step, nor i can see any benefit from doing it, so i would either transfer the 'votes' AND keeping them anonymous, or not transfer the votes at all
If the new software adopts a FB theme, then I'll read on occasion, but that's it.
Publicly listing an individual's likes (or dislikes) without that person's permission is an invasion of what little privacy exists on the Net.
Publicly listing an individual's likes (or dislikes) without that person's permission is an invasion of what little privacy exists on the Net.
Its not different then Facebook, and its not invading their privacy. Any member has a right to NOT vote or like a post.
I heartily agree.
Anything that reduces what must be a daunting task of moderating this very large active forum, would be very welcome.
Sadly, true.
Also true. I will think long and hard before I ever click the Like button on the next iteration of this forum.
A.
Agreed. Xenforo software works beautifully on the sites where I have used it. People will get used to it. There is nothing to be afraid of for those that are worrying. It does not make the forum into "facebook". That's just banal.
For convenience: http://forums.freebsd.org
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The XenForo-provided 'like' system?
Or the XenForo system in general?
In case of discussions having any voting system is pointless. A discussion is not about agreeing or winning, it is about getting your point across.
A voting system also doesn't help when you want to have good posts underneath a news article on the frontpage since people will vote on posts they like/agree with or from people they like (with the risk of friends voting on someone) since it will show up publicly (people can't hide and that scares them away).
The only thing that actually is useful is some system where you can at least point out some helpful posts/answers/solutions to a problem. Quite a lot of threads here seem to be about problems. That and a report button for a post/thread that isn't following the rules of the forum.
However, if we are going towards a like/up vote system it might be a very good idea to have the users who upvoted/liked the post listed (aka not be anonymous as it is now). That might decrease the amount of voting that is done because someone is a friend.
Whatever is chosen it should actually do something other than being gimmicky. Why would you want to like/upvote/mark a post as "solution"?
Just a like system in general.
If it is going to become like FB then I will opt out entirely. I would never join FB under any conditions.
I'm a member of another forum that uses the same software. It's a much smaller board, with less than 3,500 members with only about 100 who are actually active year round. At peak periods of the year, there are abut 400 active members. I've seen how the rating system works and it's not very pretty.
Let's be honest: the MacRumors community is infamously catty. Having non-anonymized votes might change some people's voting habits, but it's also another opportunity for people to complain and call each other out for petty reasons. My personal preference would be to drop the voting system altogether. But since MR plans to keep it, I would say at least keep it anonymous. People will continue to pander for positive votes whether its visible or not; but if it's not visible, it'll at least stop people from continually giving their buddies likes. Instead of making MR a friendlier place it'll just expand the circlejerk (for lack of a better word) to another feature.
Edit: I'd also like to add that Xenforo is great. It scales nicely, is easy to use, and looks pretty nice. And it works with Tapatalk!
Let's be honest: the MacRumors community is infamously catty. Having non-anonymized votes might change some people's voting habits, but it's also another opportunity for people to complain and call each other out for petty reasons. My personal preference would be to drop the voting system altogether. But since MR plans to keep it, I would say at least keep it anonymous. People will continue to pander for positive votes whether its visible or not; but if it's not visible, it'll at least stop people from continually giving their buddies likes. Instead of making MR a friendlier place it'll just expand the circlejerk (for lack of a better word) to another feature.
Edit: I'd also like to add that Xenforo is great. It scales nicely, is easy to use, and looks pretty nice. And it works with Tapatalk!
Thoughts
I'm not familiar with the VMware forum.
Almost without exception, I like to give extra respect to an opening post, and to an opening poster. However the thought of denying most MacRumors Forums contributors the opportunity to simply 'like' something is troublesome. Combined with the thought of allowing the opening poster (alone) to mark just one thing as a solution, things could become considerably more troublesome. More on 'solutions' below.
I'd treat it as a feature, at its simplest. I want to express my like for something, I click a button – mission accomplished. A personal thing.
I don't imagine an organisational mission in relation to the like feature.
+1
Also, the technical topics sometimes become quite confused (that's just the way things go). As things are now, it's usually possible to gently unravel confusions. Having just one thing marked as a solution in a confused topic can make it much more difficult to unravel things.
+1
Cats will be cats. In other forums I have witnessed far worse. Here, there's moderation.
If cat A writes something catty, cat B might simply choose to show his or her like of that thing – without going into catty detail about why B likes the writing of A and so on.
If there's no allowance to simply like something, then there'll be space wasted through "me too" posts and so on. And some of those me too posts would be catty, which could lead to a growth in the number/frequency of alerts to moderators, and so on.
I'm not familiar with the VMware forum.
Almost without exception, I like to give extra respect to an opening post, and to an opening poster. However the thought of denying most MacRumors Forums contributors the opportunity to simply 'like' something is troublesome. Combined with the thought of allowing the opening poster (alone) to mark just one thing as a solution, things could become considerably more troublesome. More on 'solutions' below.
I'd treat it as a feature, at its simplest. I want to express my like for something, I click a button – mission accomplished. A personal thing.
I don't imagine an organisational mission in relation to the like feature.
+1
Also, the technical topics sometimes become quite confused (that's just the way things go). As things are now, it's usually possible to gently unravel confusions. Having just one thing marked as a solution in a confused topic can make it much more difficult to unravel things.
+1
Cats will be cats. In other forums I have witnessed far worse. Here, there's moderation.
If cat A writes something catty, cat B might simply choose to show his or her like of that thing – without going into catty detail about why B likes the writing of A and so on.
If there's no allowance to simply like something, then there'll be space wasted through "me too" posts and so on. And some of those me too posts would be catty, which could lead to a growth in the number/frequency of alerts to moderators, and so on.
Rather than clicking the up arrow button, in keeping with the proposed elimination of anonymity I publicly state I completely agree.
If and when that button turns to "like," I'll join the exodus.
Any way to just clear old upvotes before moving to the new system?
The issue (as noted previously) is that the practical rules of upvoting will change. If a system is practically anonymous, and people use it, then that expectation becomes part of its use, whether intended or not. Rather than change old upvotes created under old "rules", it seems a better idea to just wipe the old data and start clean. That way the premise of anonymity is preserved for those who value it. The "contract" for the users using the feature isn't retroactively changed without permission, which unfortunately does feel like something Facebook does. Future upvotes fall under the new system, where new expectations of anonymity are in place.
I personally don't mind if my upvotes are anonymous or not. I do very much care about organizations that change my privacy expectations after the fact. Too much of this going on already.
The issue (as noted previously) is that the practical rules of upvoting will change. If a system is practically anonymous, and people use it, then that expectation becomes part of its use, whether intended or not. Rather than change old upvotes created under old "rules", it seems a better idea to just wipe the old data and start clean. That way the premise of anonymity is preserved for those who value it. The "contract" for the users using the feature isn't retroactively changed without permission, which unfortunately does feel like something Facebook does. Future upvotes fall under the new system, where new expectations of anonymity are in place.
I personally don't mind if my upvotes are anonymous or not. I do very much care about organizations that change my privacy expectations after the fact. Too much of this going on already.
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Migration from vBulletin to XenForo without migration of past votes
The opening post draws attention to https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20470416#post20470416
The opening post draws attention to https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20470416#post20470416
Up voted your post pointing out I should have read every post in the thread before responding instead of poorly skimming the content. Guilty as charged.
A spin-off thought about future improvement to alerting
Heh, you're not 'guilty' and it draws attention to the wish for a future feature, an option:
I should have read every post in the thread Guilty as charged.
Heh, you're not 'guilty'
and it draws attention to the wish for a future feature, an option: - a single alert when there's any number of edits to a post in a watched topic
That is the worst argument for having a feature. This is just like saying you want to have something just to have something. It serves no purpose at all.
Just a +1 on a posts means nothing since everybody has its own interpretation of what that +1 means. If you truly value someones post then it is better to say so either by posting in the thread or by sending a personal message.
Take a look at this specific thread here now in terms of scoring. What do you notice?
On that note, how much is that number worth in the end?
It was not an argument for a feature.
Too noisy; I nearly always refrain. https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201265337-Forum-Rules#nottodo point 2.
Sorry, private messaging is a last resort with vBulletin and the like. The UI is awful.
I think that a clique is more likely to be perceived from the way that a person writes.
but when you see who upvoted you or someone else you can start to align with them and then what you write changes. It becomes less honest and more a group think.
Feel like it's hard to talk about until its in action. It's hard to explain/predict how the dynamic changes until you use it.
arn
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