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And smartphone revenue in China was $152B last year. So what?
I also don't know where you get $52B in 2018 from. It sounds suspiciously like Q1 2019 multiplied by 4.
Here are the numbers: http://english.donga.com/3/all/26/1433234/1 or compare to any other popular smartphone makers in China

Pls read carefully.

He said Apple’s China revenue was 52b for 2018. He said nothing about the smartphone industry.
 
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Wrong again.

Apple grew sales 16% in China in 2018.

At least have a clue before questioning me. I know the numbers better than probably anyone on this site.

View attachment 832000


I am not questioning you nor your post, I just like to know where you get these numbers from.

Do you have insider information, reason I ask because you say this:

I know the numbers better than probably anyone on this site.

Cheers
 
I think it's pricing and strategy. It's easy to say the pricing is too high for the market, cuz it is. Even Cook says so. Apple's gradually lowering pricing to help address the issue. The strategy issue was Apple's biggest misstep in my opinion. They approached India with the same strategy they'd approach any other market. Basically, "we're Apple and we want to do A, B, and C so we're going to need you to do X, Y, and Z so we can get this ball rollin' P, D, and Q. India said: 1. Kick rocks. 2. You will be required to do what all other foreign vendors are required to do or 3. see 1.

Instead of going against the grain and trying to do things their way, Apple is now going with the grain. I think the goal is to position itself to get Apple store in India. To do that, they're going to have to tow the line.
Toe
 
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Source of your info? Anyone can make up a fake spreadsheet.


"Apple shipped an estimated 34.2 million iPhones in China in 2018, down from 36.7 million in 2017"

https://www.macrumors.com/2019/01/24/apple-china-shipments-2018-strategy-analytics/
LOL!! My numbers are from the 10k and you SPECIFICALLY said 2017 versus 2018, which I posted.

Here’s to hoping you know what a 10k is.
[doublepost=1555260591][/doublepost]
And smartphone revenue in China was $152B last year. So what?
I also don't know where you get $52B in 2018 from. It sounds suspiciously like Q1 2019 multiplied by 4.
Here are the numbers: http://english.donga.com/3/all/26/1433234/1 or compare to any other popular smartphone makers in China
Wow, you guys are struggling. $52B is the OFFICIAL number from the 10K. Not a guess...THE 2018 number.

1/3 of ALL Chinese smartphone revenue is STAGGERING.

LOL!! Keep the comedy coming.
[doublepost=1555260643][/doublepost]
I am not questioning you nor your post, I just like to know where you get these numbers from.

Do you have insider information, reason I ask because you say this:



Cheers
THE 10K. Learn about public companies. There is this little thing called quarterly and annual reports that are mandated by the SEC and can’t be faked or lied about or people go to jail.
 
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Tim Cook is simply stating facts and he's right. The American workforce lacks manufacturing skills for most consumer electronics.

When was the last time an LCD was manufactured in the U.S.? There's not a single plant in the country.

Consider the other components in a smartphone, which include image sensors, logic boards, flexible connectors, optical films, aluminum chassis, etc. Where in the U.S. is there experience manufacturing those components? There's no skilled workforce sitting around waiting for these jobs.

India is assembling iPhone for their own domestic market in order to avoid 20% duties. None of the above mentioned components are made in India. Why would Apple bring assembly work to the U.S.? It artificially drives up the cost and lowers the quality of the product.
Tim Cook has demonstrated few occasions why Made in USA may not be such great idea, one was Mac Pro another was GT Advanced (Sapphire crystal). As you have stated TC very clearly stated that it was skill and scale that was a primary problem in US(& in most likely in other places except Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia, to some extent India)
 
LOL!! My numbers are from the 10k and you SPECIFICALLY said 2017 versus 2018, which I posted.

Here’s to hoping you know what a 10k is.
[doublepost=1555260591][/doublepost]
Wow, you guys are struggling. $52B is the OFFICIAL number from the 10K. Not a guess...THE 2018 number.

1/3 of ALL Chinese smartphone revenue is STAGGERING.

LOL!! Keep the comedy coming.
[doublepost=1555260643][/doublepost]
THE 10K. Learn about public companies. There is this little thing called quarterly and annual reports that are mandated by the SEC and can’t be faked or lied about or people go to jail.

In case you didn't know, apple increased iPhone prices from 2017 to 2018. That's how it is possible for apple to make more revenue and still sell a lower amount of iPhone units. Also apple doesn't release iPhone units sold because they want to hide that "peak iPhone" has happened.

And the link I provided says just that. Your spreadsheet says apple grew by 16% in america (one of Apple's best areas of business) and grew 16% in China. You're saying both places grew 16% yet most would agree apple is having trouble on china.
 
Go India. Much prefer the worlds future rests in an Asian democracy. I hope their free market reforms continue to lift their people from poverty.
[doublepost=1555269361][/doublepost]
And yet, you're still wrong. The proximity of India to China and the electronics hub of the world still gives it a huge geographic advantage over the US.

Secondly, India has over 1B people, many with technical skill sets still better than a comparable US workforce. India has more to choose from and more immigrants with technical skill moving there for work.

The US is a services economy. Shipping parts with planes and boats to the US to assemble an iPhone doesn't even make sense. Building the factories that produce the thousands of sensors, screws, brackets, etc that go into an iPhone would literally be starting from scratch here, whereas Asia has factories galore.

Of course, you could move all that manufacturing to the US, but at some point, it's just stupid. And you still have the workforce numbers problem. Over 1M people assemble iPhones. Economics is a real part of business, but so is geography. So is pool of labor. All these factors make it completely idiotic to try to build 200M phones in America.
This is crazy talk. I am as pro India as they come but the Idea India has a more proficient technical job market is zany at best. These plants could all be built in the US - we have the people. We have just made it very hard. You can build anything in the US. It’s the prices that make it a problem.
[doublepost=1555269533][/doublepost]
It’s the import protection India has.
Which, if true, just resulted in a giant factory being built in their country. Bad strategy in the long run but it does provide for wins like this.
 
Since iCloud has a lag of a couple of hours often times when uploading something before it appears on other devices... I think I'm going to switch to the far superior Android hardware with my next purchase. Apple can produce one phone less.

Is that true about Apple cloud? Wow. I can snap a photo on my phone, walk up to my booted computer and view the photo on android.
 
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Wait.... so they can build an iphone in India, but not in the United States???

It's about costs, the labor market would be a great deal more expensive in the US than India. I don't live in the US, but I'd reckon your minimum wage is much, much higher than in India.
 
In case you didn't know, apple increased iPhone prices from 2017 to 2018. That's how it is possible for apple to make more revenue and still sell a lower amount of iPhone units. Also apple doesn't release iPhone units sold because they want to hide that "peak iPhone" has happened.

And the link I provided says just that. Your spreadsheet says apple grew by 16% in america (one of Apple's best areas of business) and grew 16% in China. You're saying both places grew 16% yet most would agree apple is having trouble on china.
Do you really think I didn’t know that? I’m the one teaching you about 10Ks here and proving you wrong.

Apple has pricing power.

I’m not “saying” anything. The official NUMBERS from the 10K show Apple grew 16% in China from 2017 to 2018. That is a FACT, macfacts.

iPhone is a mature product. Apple has had flattish unit sales on iPhone for 3 years. They correctly raised prices to leverage their pricing power.

Your original statement was, Apple made less in China in 2018 vs 2017” which is objectively wrong, proven by the official numbers I posted. You said nothing about unit sales and your numbers are simply guesses since Apple stopped reporting unit sales in FY2019.

Jeez, even when people are objectively wrong here, they continue to fight.
[doublepost=1555296877][/doublepost]
Go India. Much prefer the worlds future rests in an Asian democracy. I hope their free market reforms continue to lift their people from poverty.
[doublepost=1555269361][/doublepost]
This is crazy talk. I am as pro India as they come but the Idea India has a more proficient technical job market is zany at best. These plants could all be built in the US - we have the people. We have just made it very hard. You can build anything in the US. It’s the prices that make it a problem.
[doublepost=1555269533][/doublepost]
Which, if true, just resulted in a giant factory being built in their country. Bad strategy in the long run but it does provide for wins like this.
The geography alone is reason enough, but the US has nowhere near enough technical people to build iPhones. Period.
 
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How much does an iPhone cost in India?

I think the issue there are taxes, aren’t they?

If Apple can make the iPhone X cost $780 in India as it does in the US, there’s more than enough people around to buy one. At $1300, a lot bit less so.

Apple surely has the data on how many iPhones sold elsewhere are being used in India and the numbers must check out.
 
It will probably be manufactured and sold only in India for a cheaper price.
Interesting strategy, it looks like Apple does put in a little extra effort when they have no other choice.

Any company would do that. But it’s not extra effort but lowering their prices when they have to. They’d be stupid if they did something like this without being forced to do it.
 
Apple surely has the data on how many iPhones sold elsewhere are being used in India and the numbers must check out.

Curious to know, how they would do this? Do they really bother to check this out, as there would be a lot of false positives. An iPhone sold in US to a person who is visiting India on a holiday and latches on to a local network can't be counted v/s a person like me, who purchased an iPhone in US to use permanently in India to get the lower cost advantage that US has over prices in India.
But I am sure Apple knows that a lot of Indians, purchase their Apple products from out of India to get the low cost advantage, thus reducing the local sales numbers.
 
I don't understand why Apple fails in the India market at all.. is it their prices?

Yes!

Indian users are more frugal with cash than most & for many the iPhone is just too expensive & doesn't do anything different to an Android device that costs 1/5th the price of an iPhone.

Apple are wasting their time unless they offer iPhone's in India at drastically lower prices than the rest of the world.
 
Since iCloud has a lag of a couple of hours often times when uploading something before it appears on other devices... I think I'm going to switch to the far superior Android hardware with my next purchase. Apple can produce one phone less.
:eek::eek::eek:

Don't confuse your network connections with lag on iCloud. It's always been pretty much instant, be it contacts, meetings, photos, documents etc...
 
Since iCloud has a lag of a couple of hours often times when uploading something before it appears on other devices... I think I'm going to switch to the far superior Android hardware with my next purchase. Apple can produce one phone less.

LOL....Good luck with laggy Android.
 
Why would Apple go through the expense of building here when they can continue to build cheaper outside of the US? It's not like any Apple customers here are going to object or anything. I mean, a few might shake a fist or two. But by and large, most Apple customers are going to continue doing what they've always done... buying Apple products. Country of origin tends to only matter as a talking point. Profits before patriotism. Apple is a business.

its coz of import taxes. they can make more profit building here and selling than importing. besides phones built here can cater of south east asia market as a lower price.
 
Yes!

Indian users are more frugal with cash than most & for many the iPhone is just too expensive & doesn't do anything different to an Android device that costs 1/5th the price of an iPhone.

Apple are wasting their time unless they offer iPhone's in India at drastically lower prices than the rest of the world.
Apple should hire you for this incredible insight because they probably had no idea!!
 
It's about costs, the labor market would be a great deal more expensive in the US than India. I don't live in the US, but I'd reckon your minimum wage is much, much higher than in India.
It's more than just cost of labor. It is also proximity to parts suppliers. These things are made with just about no storage of extra parts; everything is delivered just in time for final assembly. Moving final assembly to the US and away from your part suppliers will also drive up the costs, possibly more so than labor. In addition, America has all kinds of environmental regulations that get baked into the final unit costs. Clean air and water (well, compared to some other industrialized places) is a benefit of outsourcing the more messy parts of industrialization to developing nations. Unfortunately, those nations haven't/aren't learning the lessons that we have learned along the way and seem willing to sellout their own environmental quality to play 'catch up' and under cut the other guy for manufacturing jobs. It would drive up prices, but I'd be fine if India, Pakistan, China, Malaysia, et al. either enforced greater environmental regulations or tacked a hefty environmental resources excise tax on goods manufactured for foreign buyers, ship breaking, and so on. But that's just me.
 
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