Foxconn Workers Express Concern Over Reduced Overtime

[b166er]

Direct quote from the First article on this report:

"More importantly, while employees will work fewer hours, Foxconn has agreed to develop a compensation package that protects workers from losing income due to reduced overtime. In order to maintain capacity while reducing workers' hours, Foxconn committed to increase its workforce significantly as it builds additional housing and canteen capacity."

Yeah man, I know. But I don't think it's going to happen. If you were doing 10 hours of overtime every week and then went to your boss and said "now I want to work 0 OT but continue to get paid for 10 hours of OT" what do you think he/she would say? Now multiply that by all the thousands of people who depend on OT in those factories. I know the company is putting up a nice front and all, but the cameras have been rolling for a few months now and they have no choice but to preach a good game for now.

When it comes to overtime I don't think there is ever a medium ground that makes both the employer and the worker equally happy.

 

[kirk26]

Complain about too much work, complain about time off. They'll never be happy.

 

[thewitt]

Complain about too much work, complain about time off. They'll never be happy.

The workers at Foxconn were not complaining about too much work. That report was invented... Overtime at Foxconn is not mandatory. Workers request it so they can earn more money to send home. The only plan to work a few years, they they will go home too...

 

[DroidRules]

I didn't read all the silly repsonses but I'll join in.

I was never one to worry about the chinese workers. I really don't care if they work a billion hours a year, that's up to them. You do however have to ask yourself is this overtime wanted ALL the time or forced because they know if they don't do the time the end out on their butts. If they want to go for it, if they have to to keep their job that's not cool.

 

[sweetchilliphil]

Sigh.

I think pretty much most of you have no idea what you're talking about.

You don't know the culture, the thinking, or have a good knowledge of how China functions as a whole and have been reading way too many slightly misinformed blogs and biased reports on the issue.

 

[n8236]

I'm of strict Chinese descent and my mom's side runs a prominent Chinese business. So let me tell you, I find this entire Foxconn thing absolutely amusing.

Love it!

 

[thewitt]

I didn't read all the silly repsonses but I'll join in.

I was never one to worry about the chinese workers. I really don't care if they work a billion hours a year, that's up to them. You do however have to ask yourself is this overtime wanted ALL the time or forced because they know if they don't do the time the end out on their butts. If they want to go for it, if they have to to keep their job that's not cool.

The overtime is not forced. It's optional. Those working longer hours want it. Most workers want more than Foxconn is even able to give them.

Our factory in China is exactly the same. We limit overtime because we apply US standards, and we constantly get complaints from the workforce that they want more hours. We pay more than many in the zone, however we have operators leave because they can earn more working additional overtime at other factories.

 

[Dammit Cubs]

This is a problem with western world trying to boss an eastern philosophy. This is only to please everyone but china themselves. It makes people okay to buy apple products because they feel workers are treated well but the problem is everyone doesn't go through this. Americans will just sit behind that ignorant glass to their their way of life is the way to go when people fail to realize that there are A BILLION people in china. These people work harder because they have much pressure then some douche bag teenager in the states. These kids know that they have complete with 100,000 of thousands of people to have an opportunity to even work 60 hours a week.

That's what it mean to want a job. To need a job because you need to not only take care of you but your whole family. Welcome to asia. A bunch of standards group isn't gonna change that unless you increase the pay per employee. Money is money and they will be pissed if you cut their pay.

 

[SeaFox]

This is a problem with western world trying to boss an eastern philosophy. This is only to please everyone but china themselves. It makes people okay to buy apple products because they feel workers are treated well but the problem is everyone doesn't go through this. Americans will just sit behind that ignorant glass to their their way of life is the way to go when people fail to realize that there are A BILLION people in china. These people work harder because they have much pressure then some douche bag teenager in the states. These kids know that they have complete with 100,000 of thousands of people to have an opportunity to even work 60 hours a week.

The biggest flaw with this reply is it seems to suggest that every country has an identical number of finite jobs and therefore the Chinese have more competition because of their higher population.

That's stupid.

The number of jobs is entirely dependent on the size of the industry the positions are in. There no reason the Chinese manufacturing industry couldn't be large enough to employ everyone easily who wanted to work in it. All you need is the factories, raw materials, and market demand for that kind of product output.

If jobs are so hard to come by in China that one has to compete with a 100,000 people for a position, this is a social issue -- an indicative of problems on the government level running the country as a whole and it's position in the world marketplace.

A Chinese teenager can be just as big a "douche-bag" as an American teenager when it comes to their need for a job depending on their upbringing. To assume otherwise is just as much living behind "ignorance glass" -- thinking that every American has it made and nobody over here is struggling to survive either.

 

[thewitt]

Manufacturing jobs in China are available, but they are hundreds of miles away from home, and as such are not really careers, but temporary jobs.

Foxconn is a great example of a company set up to meet the needs of these migrant workers.

They can hire, train and deploy several thousand new employees each week - and with the high turnover rates, they do.

These workers are young, far from home, only plan on working for a short time, and they arrive at companies like Foxconn suitcase in hand and ready to go to work.

They generally disappear after a long holiday like Chinese New Year. They go home and just don't come back, having already sent all their money home for a couple years.

When the money runs out in their small village life, they will repeat the process - or a younger brother or sister will.

Nothing like this exists today in the West...

 

[SeaFox]

Manufacturing jobs in China are available, but they are hundreds of miles away from home, and as such are not really careers, but temporary jobs.

Foxconn is a great example of a company set up to meet the needs of these migrant workers.

Don't you mean a great example of a company creating a situation that benefits them financially?

From what I've seen here and elsewhere these workers leave home because the jobs are hundreds of miles away and they must to get them. You make it sound like the workers want to be migratory and separated from their families.

They generally disappear after a long holiday like Chinese New Year. They go home and just don't come back, having already sent all their money home for a couple years.

They have to quit to see their families on the holidays because their employer wont willingly let them take the time off and come right back. Sometimes they just go back and apply over again as a new employee. I believe there was even a story about this on Macrumors.

When the money runs out in their small village life, they will repeat the process - or a younger brother or sister will.

Nothing like this exists today in the West...

Except in the Southwest where migrant farm workers have been doing this since before the Great Depression and still do today.

Once again, assuming everyone has a cushy career in the U.S.

Although it's not that common in the U.S. precisely because people here wont put up with it. They want to be closer to family and be able to settle down instead of (literally) chasing their paychecks. Edit: the closest I can think of easily is long-haul truck drivers.

It's also worth noting better treatment of workers required government involvement (stopping child labor and heavy industry sweatshop practices) during the Industrial Revolution. So once again, the lack of involvement by the Chinese government is the cause. Corporations have shown time and time again they will exploit workers as long as they are allowed. Extra irony: China is supposedly a communist state built to champion the common worker and refers to itself as "the People's Republic of China".

 

[hafr]

Extra irony: China is supposedly a communist state built to champion the common worker and refers to itself as "the People's Republic of China".

Well, the tax returns are independent of how much you paid in taxes, even those not working get their share - even those living abroad does. So in some ways, they sure are keeping up appearances

 

[thewitt]

Don't you mean a great example of a company creating a situation that benefits them financially?

From what I've seen here and elsewhere these workers leave home because the jobs are hundreds of miles away and they must to get them. You make it sound like the workers want to be migratory and separated from their families.

They have to quit to see their families on the holidays because their employer wont willingly let them take the time off and come right back. Sometimes they just go back and apply over again as a new employee. I believe there was even a story about this on Macrumors.

There are no jobs in the villages where these workers come from. The jobs are in the factory cities like Wuxi, Suzhou and Shenzhen.

The Suzhou SIP employees approximately 1.2 million people in the factories there. These jobs are designed for migrants - not seasonal migrants like you see in the Southwest, but year round labor brought in from remote villages, housed, fed, trained and generally provided for.

There is nothing comparable in the West.

You are right. We cannot afford to shut the factory down for two months to let them go home for CNY. We do shut down for nearly two weeks however, as does most industry in China. Most workers do not come right back however after quitting, regardless of what you read here.

 

[chirpie]

What the hell are you talking about.
Yeah maybe in Suburban America.

This is exactly what happened with my own brother-in-law and mother-in-law who live in Shanghai. What can I say sir? It happened.

 

[Asia8]

I know this is pages ago but a lot of these young chinese workers came from the province where work with decent pay is hard to come by and they are obligated to send half of their pay to their families back home. Chances are, these kids are not living beyond their means, it is just a bulk of their pay is sent home to support their family.

More closer to 80% - 90%. I've seen it, I live here.

 

[Steve121178]

Good job western society. We think we know what's best for these people and now you are taking hours away from them, which is money out of their pocket. If they want to work, let em work.

Exactly. It's disgusting how we impose our way of living on others.

 

[hafr]

Exactly. It's disgusting how we impose our way of living on others.

I think it's both positive and negative though... I mean, if you move production from the western world to a country like China, you should also make sure to export health and safety regulations if they don't match those of the country of origin and you should be able to match the pay (in PPP that is ) of that of the western workers.

No one would be complaining about imposing western values if there would be improvements in the health insurances for the employees. But limiting OT, which in the western world is seen as protecting the health of the employees, makes people get all aggressive.

For instance, would you say it's disgusting to see how we impose our way of living on others if the paychecks were to be increased to match the purchasing power of Apple factory employees in China with that of american factory workers?

 

[ohbrilliance]

who says they were. None of them claim they were being forced. They say they want to work the overtime to make more money and now they are upset that they are being told to go home.

You're putting words into my mouth. I'm saying the policy should be such, whether it already is or isn't.

 

[jackc]

I think it's both positive and negative though... I mean, if you move production from the western world to a country like China, you should also make sure to export health and safety regulations if they don't match those of the country of origin and you should be able to match the pay (in PPP that is ) of that of the western workers.

That would be a good way to destroy those jobs -- they are not going to be equivalent to Western jobs. You can't just pretend it's not a poor country with lost of unskilled workers who are going to be paid less.

 

[hafr]

That would be a good way to destroy those jobs -- they are not going to be equivalent to Western jobs. You can't just pretend it's not a poor country with lost of unskilled workers who are going to be paid less.

I'm assuming you understand what I meant with PPP, so it would be interesting to hear your explanation to why this would not be possible.

Considering the low cost of life in these countries, the change in dollars and cents wouldn't be very significant. In short, they would gain more than we would lose.

 

[jackc]

I'm assuming you understand what I meant with PPP, so it would be interesting to hear your explanation to why this would not be possible.

Considering the low cost of life in these countries, the change in dollars and cents wouldn't be very significant. In short, they would gain more than we would lose.

You're right, I skimmed over your mention of PPP, but aren't they basically doing that already?

 

[hafr]

You're right, I skimmed over your mention of PPP, but aren't they basically doing that already?

I don't know whether or not Apple and/or Foxconn is/are doing it, I was talking about outsourcing of this kind in general. It was meant to be an example of an "imposing of western culture" that those in this discussion is crying about wouldn't mind.