Foxconn Workers Express Concern Over Reduced Overtime

[japaneselonewol]

As usual, American bleeding hearts get it wrong

It means nothing for Americans to work long weeks and hours. The very second some other country does so, we have to stick our noses in their business, as if we have the golden rules. Now there are workers receiving less pay, and want to work to afford a better way of life.

Congratulations, once again we've broken a system that was working for someone else. Now who is going to take responsibility? That's right, that's not done any more. It's always someone else's fault. God forbid we hold ourselves to personal responsibility and accountability.

We blame our parents, the government, our childhood, the environment, whine 'it's not my fault'. No wonder we've lost respect in the global landscape. We've been too busy believing we are the greatest thing since sliced bread and zippers on pants.

As long as we get a good night's sleep, that's all that matters. Nice work.

 

[cwt1nospam]

Definitely not. I am in no way encouraging slave labor. I base many of my purchases as to whether or not it is made in the USA. That is my choice, and trust me, most often comes with a premium.

I dont always have that discretion with all products though.

The bottom line is, these people are trying to work as much as possible, as quick as possible, to better their situation as they need. Who are you, or anyone else, to try and control that. It may not seem like much, but Id be willing to bet, even the loss of fifty dollars per week (adjusted at there salary) would cause tremendous hardships at home.

You want a solution, move the labor force back to the US. Let the unions take control. We have plenty of workers who would love to have new jobs.

But be prepared for quite a price increase in your favorite Apple products. I know I can afford em and would be more than willing to pay the premium for the economic increase. Would you?

No, the bottom line is that these people have no control over their work environment or their pay. That's controlled by the Chinese government and international corporations — NOT the "free market". Your position amounts to banning all others from interfering with that control — even when the others are using market forces (not government) to achieve something, even though what's been achieved is largely positive*.

Your position is anti-worker, anti-American, and pro Communist China. Congratulations, you're a Conservative.

* Many of the workers are not yet aware that it is, but that doesn't change the reality: it is positive.

 

[MacSince1990]

People who actually have dignity and want to work rather than receive handouts?

Why do I still live in the US?

I'm guessing because you don't want to make $630 a month while working full time plus 36 hours overtime. If not, feel free to leave? There's no dignity in being in a ****** position like that. Just like there's no dignity earning minimum wage here.

 

[emaja]

I'm guessing because you don't want to make $630 a month while working full time plus 36 hours overtime. If not, feel free to leave? There's no dignity in being in a ****** position like that. Just like there's no dignity earning minimum wage here.

I'd like to know how their wages compare to other Chinese workers' pay. There might be dignity in taking home more than your neighbor for the same amount of work.

Wages are relative to the population earning them. What is a good wage in Lincoln, Nebraska would not get you very far in Manhattan and we would not say that the people of Nebraska are being treated poorly.

 

[MacSince1990]

And people wonder why child prostitution is so high in developing countries that bar child labor.

First world countries come in and try to impose values that work for them thinking it will work in a country that's barely able to survive on its own (While at the same time forgetting how long it took their developed country to become developed).


Ha! Take that you do gooders!

They actually like their crappy working conditions. Leave them alone.

Could you possibly be serious? Allegory of the Cave was written around two-thousand years ago. You've had a long time to learn that lesson..


Meanwhile the families are starving because they lose the income their son/daughter brought. Guess where he or she gets put to work?[/QUOTE]

No, I'm pretty sure they'd just like to set themselves up for retirement. If they work overtime now, they'll be able to afford to retire later. Or send their kids to school. Or send themselves to school. They'd actually like to be prepared for the future.

*blinks* How are they going to do that on less than $160 a month..?

And people wonder why child prostitution is so high in developing countries that bar child labor.

Oh dear Lord you're in denial. You really think it would go away?

First world countries come in and try to impose values that work for them thinking it will work in a country that's barely able to survive on its own (While at the same time forgetting how long it took their developed country to become developed).

Meanwhile the families are starving because they lose the income their son/daughter brought. Guess where he or she gets put to work?

This is a bit sick of you. Most people would rather starve than put their children through that.. as once they do, they're no longer children... and have no future, as their entire humanity is basically taken from them. There are a lot more issues at work here than you're accounting for.

The bottom line is the FLA did the wrong thing; pay ought to be raised, bottom line. In all countries. As long as these people are making next to nothing, companies are going to continue to profit off the helplessness of whatever population it can find to do the work the most cheaply.

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I'd like to know how their wages compare to other Chinese workers' pay. There might be dignity in taking home more than your neighbor for the same amount of work.

Wages are relative to the population earning them. What is a good wage in Lincoln, Nebraska would not get you very far in Manhattan and we would not say that the people of Nebraska are being treated poorly.

The point is that none of them earn enough.

Yes I know wages are relative, and things ARE cheaper in China... but they're not an order of magnitude cheaper.

 

[jackc]

pay ought to be raised, bottom line. In all countries.

Pay will be raised, but it doesn't happen magically for poor countries to reach western standards. Meanwhile, forcing higher wages and benefits means you will make these people worse off. Saying "it shouldn't be that way" doesn't change the actual effects.

 

[sdunlapa]

Wirelessly posted

Wirelessly posted



And where in the hell in the U.S. are you going to find 120k workers to all work in a factory to make millions of product. That's more people than most cities in the U.S. have.

I guess you would rather have companies wither on the vine than be profitable and innovate.

You are referring to alfonsog right? Because you do realize that I was being totally sarcastic I hope....

Yes. Just expanding on yours.

 

[gnasher729]

*blinks* How are they going to do that on less than $160 a month..?

Yes I know wages are relative, and things ARE cheaper in China... but they're not an order of magnitude cheaper.

Wages are an order of magnitude cheaper. Which makes everything involving local work an order of magnitude cheaper. For example: Sending your kids to school is an order of magnitude cheaper. For example: Rent for a place in a dorm at Foxconn is $17 a month. What does $170 a month (an order of magnitude more) get you in the USA?

A little girl ran over twice and left to die by multiple passer by is just one in a long list of events that shows a lack of social conscience.

A mob beating up a foreign student, breaking his jaw, followed by two guys pretending to help him but robbing him instead. Guess the country.

Why has FOXCOMM hired child labor. The answer is simple. GREED.

Wrong question. The correct question is: Why has some lying bastard pretending to be either an artist or a reporter made up stories of witnessing children working at Foxconn?

 

[emaja]

The point is that none of them earn enough.

Yes I know wages are relative, and things ARE cheaper in China... but they're not an order of magnitude cheaper.

By who's standards? The minimum monthly wage in Shenzhen is 1500 yuan ($238). Foxconn pays between 2200 yuan ($249) and 2500 yuan ($396). That's almost 50% above the minimum.

Source.

With food and housing (outside city centers) being 2-3x less expensive and wages being relative to those needs, their pay is relatively good for the area. Yes, they could be paid more, but there are far fewer opportunities for other, better employment in China then there are in most Western nations that purchase those goods.

 

[cwt1nospam]

By who's standards?

By world standards. The whole point of having this allegedly free market is that it's good for all participants. Paying workers who make consumer goods so little money that they cannot afford to buy those goods is a losing proposition in the long term because it's not sustainable.

The Chinese government and international corporations have rigged the game so that these same corporations can make a profit until it bankrupts first world markets by undercutting first world labor. After that, everyone fails, including the Chinese because they won't have a middle class large enough to buy what they're producing!

That's not a free market, so why are you preferring that over a group of people using market forces to fix it? Is that what really passes for Conservative these days?

 

[jackc]

Paying workers who make consumer goods so little money that they cannot afford to buy those goods is a losing proposition in the long term because it's not sustainable.

That is an old fallacy. People manufacturing Ferraris and yachts can't afford one. Is that unsustainable?

 

[cwt1nospam]

That is an old fallacy. People manufacturing Ferraris and yachts can't afford one. Is that unsustainable?

Hardly consumer goods. We're talking phones and mp3 players here!

 

[jackc]

Hardly consumer goods. We're talking phones and mp3 players here!

You're talking about expensive luxury items, and workers in a poor country. If they could afford such things, they wouldn't be poor.

 

[hafr]

Could you possibly be serious? Allegory of the Cave was written around two-thousand years ago. You've had a long time to learn that lesson..

*blinks* How are they going to do that on less than $160 a month..?

Oh dear Lord you're in denial. You really think it would go away?

This is a bit sick of you. Most people would rather starve than put their children through that.. as once they do, they're no longer children... and have no future, as their entire humanity is basically taken from them. There are a lot more issues at work here than you're accounting for.

The bottom line is the FLA did the wrong thing; pay ought to be raised, bottom line. In all countries. As long as these people are making next to nothing, companies are going to continue to profit off the helplessness of whatever population it can find to do the work the most cheaply.

----------



The point is that none of them earn enough.

Yes I know wages are relative, and things ARE cheaper in China... but they're not an order of magnitude cheaper.

You seem to be a very nice person. Unfortunately, you also seem to have absolutely no idea what so ever what your talking about.

Thinking child labour is something bad per definition is just being uninformed. My friend quit school as soon as he were no longer required by law to attend. Having his birthday late in the year, he was 15 at the time. He got a full time job in a factory. If my friend would have lived in China, and the factory was Foxconn, this would mean Foxconn used child labour.

In other countries, where children literally have the option between working, selling their bodies or becoming criminals, forbidding child labour is the worst thing you can do if you want to save the kids. It's not like they're working instead of going to school, they're working instead of being prostitutes or thieves. In other places, they do have the option between going to school or going to work, but that would mean DEATH (not just cutting back on McDonald's) since the family's income wouldn't suffice. Finding a solution for them to be able to attend school and still letting the family have enough income to survive would be better.

The economic part of your post is also based on absolutely nothing but your wild guesses and assumptions, that just happen to be wrong. I'm a bit too tired (it's after midnight here) to fully explain, but if you don't want to google it, no one else answers, and you really want to learn (or if you want to have a more in depth discussion about child labour) - send me a PM and I'll try to explain it properly.

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By world standards. The whole point of having this allegedly free market is that it's good for all participants. Paying workers who make consumer goods so little money that they cannot afford to buy those goods is a losing proposition in the long term because it's not sustainable.

The Chinese government and international corporations have rigged the game so that these same corporations can make a profit until it bankrupts first world markets by undercutting first world labor. After that, everyone fails, including the Chinese because they won't have a middle class large enough to buy what they're producing!

That's not a free market, so why are you preferring that over a group of people using market forces to fix it? Is that what really passes for Conservative these days?

If you're really interested in economics, why don't you at least try to pick up a book about it? You know, learn a little bit about it before you go online to tell people how the world works?

 

[cwt1nospam]

You're talking about expensive luxury items, and workers in a poor country. If they could afford such things, they wouldn't be poor.

They're only poor because of what they're paid.

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If you're really interested in economics, why don't you at least try to pick up a book about it? You know, learn a little bit about it before you go online to tell people how the world works?

Yes, let's pretend that nobody knows the Chinese government rigs its currency and you can get away with claiming that anyone who doesn't agree with you is just ignorant.

 

[jackc]

They're only poor because of what they're paid.

That's true only in the most trivial sense. If a bum worked on Wall Street, he'd be rich. China's a developing country. You can't just wish for higher wages.

 

[cwt1nospam]

That's true only in the most trivial sense. If a bum worked on Wall Street, he'd be rich. China's a developing country. You can't just wish for higher wages.

Right, you need to do something about them, so why are you opposing that, especially since it's being done by private citizens using market forces?

 

[jackc]

Right, you need to do something about them, so why are you opposing that, especially since it's being done by private citizens using market forces?

The workers are opposing it, because well-intentioned critics are going to make them worse off. Companies respond to negative publicity, but it's negative because of ignorance and unrealistic expectations. The workers know you are not going to magically create a 9 to 5 job at wages approaching First World levels.

 

[cwt1nospam]

They are NOT opposing it. They're concerned about losing income because they don't yet know that's been taken care of as part of the deal.

 

[alphaod]

I'm not surprised to this outcome.

 

[DanHolderman]

I feel for the Foxconn workers! I too would be upset if an outside group decided what was "best" for me by throttling the number of hours of Overtime that I could work in a month.

If it wasn't for the OT that I work, I couldn't pay my bills.

If working 50-60 hours a week is OK for me in the U.S. (not uncommon for American workers) how dare we tell the Chinese how many hours they should be working in a week.

No wonder why we have such a horrible international reputation (we can be arrogant asses!)

 

[hafr]

Yes, let's pretend that nobody knows the Chinese government rigs its currency and you can get away with claiming that anyone who doesn't agree with you is just ignorant.

I was talking about economics, I'm convinced that you're very knowledgable when it comes to conspiracy theories.

 

[Jiten]

Foxconn employees complain when a step is taken to make their working life less slave like.

If you need overtime to survive you have the wrong job or are living above your means.

I know this is pages ago but a lot of these young chinese workers came from the province where work with decent pay is hard to come by and they are obligated to send half of their pay to their families back home. Chances are, these kids are not living beyond their means, it is just a bulk of their pay is sent home to support their family.

 

[zukernik]

America - exporting freedom and democracy as usual.

 

[SoGood]

Stupid Western people trying to apply their value to others, all without checking what's truly desired by the people in a foreign land. Not too different to the Stolen Generation saga in Australia and similar events in history around the world.

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America - exporting freedom and democracy as usual.

Nay, it's actually a sinister plot by America and other self-interested nations to impede the loss of manufacturing jobs to China. Do whatever to increase their cost base to stem the tide at home.