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Following tax rules (loopholes or tax avoidance) is not immoral. These companies have teams of tax lawyers that comb through these tax rules to make sure they pay not one cent more or less then they have to. There is NOTHING immoral or loathsome about that. Immoral would be me screwing my sister. That is immoral.

It's not illegal, but it is immoral. Especially because all of these tech giants love to play a 'moral high stand' game when it comes to illegal immigrants, lgbtq rights, and other social issues. But they don't have any objection of those in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, etc.

No matter how you put it - it is immoral. But not illegal.
 
Just too funny to read all the emotional outbursts from immoral, to evading to unfair et al., when NOBODY EVER wants to pay more taxes/money than legally obligated to.

Please get the FACT that these 2 countries are not cracking down on anybody but themselves, i.e. their own tax laws!

It will be interesting to see, how many countries will join that effort in a display of unity of the European Union.

As for money, it will move and any new laws will never grab it! Maybe make it more difficult, maybe you get a little more of it, but never the big chunk they want.

Corporations are and have been smarter than any tax laws and will always be a step ahead, if not two or three.
That btw is worldwide!

Nice try though picking Apple as a headliner.
 
How are they "above the law"? They have done nothing illegal by exploiting tax loopholes. Any company with tax lawyers/accountants worth their salt would do the same thing.
Google is being fined 2.7 billion by the EU for comparison shopping search results (illegal) but with over 18 billion in cash it’s a small price to pay. When Facebook sought approval for their acquisition of WhatsApp they assured EU regulators it’d be “impossible to match a user’s WhatsApp account with that user’s Facebook account.” So EU regulators let the deal go through. But, Facebook soon figured out how to match those accounts and so they were fined 122 million for lying to regulators. Facebook valued WhatsApp at 19 billion so 122 million was nothing to them. They break the law because it’s cheaper to do so, so I applaud regulators who are starting to really go after these companies.
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Just too funny to read all the emotional outbursts from immoral, to evading to unfair et al., when NOBODY EVER wants to pay more taxes/money than legally obligated to.

Please get the FACT that these 2 countries are not cracking down on anybody but themselves, i.e. their own tax laws!

It will be interesting to see, how many countries will join that effort in a display of unity of the European Union.

As for money, it will move and any new laws will never grab it! Maybe make it more difficult, maybe you get a little more of it, but never the big chunk they want.

Corporations are and have been smarter than any tax laws and will always be a step ahead, if not two or three.
That btw is worldwide!

Nice try though picking Apple as a headliner.
I think that regulators around the world need to grow a pair and close the loopholes these tech giants abuse and go after them when they break laws. I don’t care if these companies are the “hot girl” or if they position themselves as “innovators,” they need to be held to the same standard as everyone else.
 
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Referring to the general tax policies, which are usually being alluded to by these criticisms, as loopholes is disingenuous. We aren't for the most part talking about loopholes, we're talking about considered and intentional tax policy choices. Those intentional policy choices are often referred to as loopholes because doing so obfuscates the reality that such policies are chosen because of the benefits they provide (or harms they avoid).

I suppose we could refer to it as a loophole that someone doesn't get a speeding ticket if they drive 50 mph because the law only makes driving over 55 mph a violation. Or maybe we could consider it a loophole that someone making less money only pays a 15% tax rate because their income is below the level at which a higher rate kicks in. Or we could consider it a loophole that someone isn't guilty of theft if their possession of someone else's property is pursuant to that someone else's permission. But such usages of the term loophole are assaults on its meaning, rob it of its import, and undermine its utility.

We're talking about the intentional choice to, when it comes to income taxation, regard income as occurring where value is created rather than where it is realized. There are reasons why nations - most advanced economies of the world - choose that general tax policy. It is, in their assessment, to their benefit. For instance, they don't want to forego the ability to tax (as income) value-creating economic activity which occurs within their respective nations in order to be able to tax (as income) value-realizing economic activity (i.e. sales) which does. It wouldn't be practical to tax (as income) both (e.g., because of the tax / trade policy wars that would set off), so they choose to tax the former. The advanced economies of the world have, in effect, agreed to settle on taxing the former. But that only works if most everyone goes along with the choice. Many nations then get the other piece of the puzzle - taxes from sales which occur within their respective nations - by applying a hefty value-added tax. Then, for rhetorical purposes (as large swaths of electorates don't really understand why it's done this way and/or want scapegoats to vilify) politicians criticize these intentional tax policy choices which have, for good reasons, been made - often, disingenuously, by referring to the intended effects of them as loopholes.

People often also pretend that income taxation of corporations is comparable to income taxation of individuals so that they can argue that it's reasonable for those corporations to pay as high a (or a higher) rate. Those things aren't comparable in that way. Taxation of corporate income represents an additional level of taxation on top of what individuals pay on their own income (to include that income derived from equity ownership of corporations). The same income which corporations pay income taxes on is typically taxed again when it's realized by its owners.
 
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Here is an easy way to eliminate tax evasion completely:
  1. Eliminate all income taxes as they presently stand (Personal and Corporate)
  2. Establish a sales tax that is charged to the consumer at time of purchase and make this the ONLY tax that is paid.
Problem solved, no tax evasion can exist, you only need to audit local stores to ensure that they have sent the appropriate amount to the government that was charged to the consumer. This immediately closes all loopholes as well.
 
I have this radical notion that no business should pay taxes. Businesses—unlike governments—are the creators and sustainers of an economy. They have a multiplying effect that spawns supporting suppliers and services. They enable consumers to have money and choices.

If consumers were solely responsible for tipping the government when they purchase a good or service, they wouldn’t be so unaware of how expensive and pervasive government has become. Maybe, if citizens felt what socialist programs and bureaucracies cost, they would finally insist on downsized government, self-supporting solutions to charity, and individual responsibility and accountability.
 
France will draft and propose a list of "simpler rules" that will be aimed at creating a "real taxation" law

Finally. A country that realizes its their fault these companies legally receive lower tax rates through the unnecessarily complexities of the tax laws in place.
 
What European country has developed tech products that have been by Apple?

This is a money grab and those two countries should worry about their policies that have led to terrorism.
Whilst I absolutely agree that the EU has quite a big influence on the development of terrorism especially in regions of conflict in the Middle East I think it's rather rich to portray the US as a Saint of sorts by leaving out that it is mainly them who repeatedly have been the reason for conflicts escalating and nations falling apart, often whilst they are in the country, leaving as soon as either resources have been secured or the political instability is cemented whether intentional or not.

And speaking of European tech products by Apple (what is that even supposed to mean?) there is a lot of European technology in Apple products.

A money grab you say this is, well of course it is. Taxes aren't paid voluntarily or do you pay your income taxes because you like a lower income?

Glassed Silver:mac
 
Following tax rules (loopholes or tax avoidance) is not immoral. These companies have teams of tax lawyers that comb through these tax rules to make sure they pay not one cent more or less then they have to. There is NOTHING immoral or loathsome about that. Immoral would be me screwing my sister. That is immoral.

I have no problem if these countries want to change tax rules but blame should be placed on these governments that designed the tax rules in the first place and not the companies that follow them. If these companies are evading taxes then by all means prosecute them. Other then last years EU commission flawed, vague ruling that took them 3 years to come up with against Apple which most likely won't hold water in court, these governments have failed to prove any tax evasion.
Kind of is actually. I specifically remember TC saying that Apple follow the spirit of the law as well as the letter.
That is to say not only was Apple following what he law actually said, (lies), he was following what the law was supposed to achieve, (bigger lies).
 
Sweet, more reason for Apple to repatriate and bring those dollars back to the U.S.
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Yeah like companies paying tax in the countries the product was sold in, not siphoning profits through a lower tax country. Like how Apple bill all sales through Ireland for less tax - they shouldn’t be able to do that. English sale = English tax on that sale.

You must be thrilled about Brexit then? The EU let this go on for years with all sorts of companies.
 
Yup. Don't like the law? Change the law.

The problem is that we rely on the worst criminals on the planet with creating our laws.

Here is an easy way to eliminate tax evasion completely:
  1. Eliminate all income taxes as they presently stand (Personal and Corporate)
  2. Establish a sales tax that is charged to the consumer at time of purchase and make this the ONLY tax that is paid.
Problem solved, no tax evasion can exist, you only need to audit local stores to ensure that they have sent the appropriate amount to the government that was charged to the consumer. This immediately closes all loopholes as well.

Problem solved, except the Gub'ment can't run on pittance. Their won't be enough $$$ flowing into the coffers under that tax plan.
 
Hey, if Tim loves leftist globalism so much, the least he can do is pay his fair share! No sympathy here.
 
This years carefully thought out exception is next years breathless loophole.

Let's just be more clear. They want to change the law to increase tax revenue.
 
Finding loopholes is not tax evasion.

All as the countries have to do is change their tax laws to eliminate loopholes.

Finding loopholes isn't tax evasion and isn't a crime.

However, Lobbying to put in those loopholes by paying for the laws you want, so that you can take advantage of them, while not illegal, is ****ing morally repugnant.

The tax code fixes are the first step. the 2nd is to break the bond between corporation and government.

the Government should be answerable ONLY to the people. Not enterprises that live in perpetuity that don't actually live and breath.
 
It's kind of comical that the companies who sit up on their moral high horse preaching throw all morality out the window when it hit's their wallet. But you keep making those Red iPhones and rainbow watch bands and pat yourself on the back.
 
No. But if it means Apple are forced to pay tax properly, then maybe there's a silver lining after all! That's all I'll say on the matter.

Haha paying tax "properly" is subjective but considering Apple holds cash reserves greater than most all countries, it probably would do the world some good if they and other countries like them paid a little more tax.

For the record, I think things will work out well for Britain long term once Brexit goes through. You will get to make decisions that are in the best interests of your people again.
 
I think things will work out well for Britain long term once Brexit goes through. You will get to make decisions that are in the best interests of your people again.

You had better be right, or I'm holding you personally responsible.

I just think it's rich of Apple to preach about 'The People' and 'Community' whilst simultaneously robbing them of tax, which benefits the people and society Apple are selling their products to. Apple sees enriching people's lives as people owning Apple products and emptying their wallets, but they don't want you or your country to be financially better off. Apple couldn't wait to hike prices here in the UK, after the Brexit vote. Even if we reach some sort of new paradise and our currency strengthens, who do you think will be the last to lower their prices back to pre-Brexit levels? You won't see Apple doing anything of the sort. Why would they, they can rip you off AND take more home for themselves.
 
It's kind of comical that the companies who sit up on their moral high horse preaching throw all morality out the window when it hit's their wallet. But you keep making those Red iPhones and rainbow watch bands and pat yourself on the back.

That's because it sounds like good marketing if Apple says they raised "x" amount for AIDS. Not so sexy flaunting a high effective tax rate.
 
...
For the record, I think things will work out well for Britain long term once Brexit goes through. You will get to make decisions that are in the best interests of your people again.

Or the old xenophobic farts will die off, leaving the young folk to make rational decisions again. In order to get to the long, one has to survive the short and medium terms...
 
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You had better be right, or I'm holding you personally responsible.

I just think it's rich of Apple to preach about 'The People' and 'Community' whilst simultaneously robbing them of tax, which benefits the people and society Apple are selling their products to. Apple sees enriching people's lives as people owning Apple products and emptying their wallets, but they don't want you or your country to be financially better off.

Haha see my last post (#48). Completely agree.

As for the first comment - love the British humor. Hit me up in 5 years and we will rehash it. Who knows, maybe we are all doomed.
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You had better be right, or I'm holding you personally responsible.

I just think it's rich of Apple to preach about 'The People' and 'Community' whilst simultaneously robbing them of tax, which benefits the people and society Apple are selling their products to. Apple sees enriching people's lives as people owning Apple products and emptying their wallets, but they don't want you or your country to be financially better off. Apple couldn't wait to hike prices here in the UK, after the Brexit vote. Even if we reach some sort of new paradise and our currency strengthens, who do you think will be the last to lower their prices back to pre-Brexit levels? You won't see Apple doing anything of the sort. Why would they, they can rip you off AND take more home for themselves.

That is the way the free market works. I don't blame Apple for making a good product and charging as much as people will possibly pay them. Heck, I don't even blame them for setting up their corporate structures to give them tax relief. Apple works every day to achieve a competitive advantages over its competitors out there.

Who I really blame are the inept politicians who fail to update the tax code to the 21st century.
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Or the old xenophobic farts will die off, leaving the young folk to make rational decisions again. In order to get to the long, one has to survive the short and medium terms...

I am decently young myself and I think it is a good thing if a country wants to take care of its own people first. Why even have boarders or countries otherwise?
 
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