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France Asks EU to Examine Apple's Removal of AppGratis From the App Store

Judas1 said:
Retail stores don't have to carry items they they don't want to because those items can be sold at other retail stores. With the App Store, an ios app cannot be sold anywhere else. So if Apple can just determine arbitrarily what apps can and can't be sold, they can effectively destroy the software companies because there is no other market (IOS apps will only work on iOS, and can only be bought from the App Store.) That is extraordinary power, and frankly too much power. I don't get why some people can't see this.
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The difference is that an app is an extension of ios. It's not just a "product". The very reason "an ios app cannot be sold anywhere else" is because it has no independent existence-- it is a meaningless entity outside of ios.

Now, one could argue the opposite-- that an ios app could be ported to Android, thus having a distinct existence. But in this case, the app CAN be sold somewhere else.

BTW, this is exactly the same line of reasoning argument that a woman should have the legal right to abort a fetus she is carrying. So if you were to favor legalized abortion, you should certainly be siding with Apple on this. (The converse doesn't work precisely, because someone may object to "murdering" a fetus on moral grounds that wouldn't extend to a piece of software).
 
bushido said:
the EU should do something against apple forcing their apps on us without giving us an option like a different browser set as default. wasnt microsoft fined for exactly this and the IE once?
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Yeah because it's so difficult to download Chrome from the AppStore. I use SkyFire and Puffin frequently. Took me less than a minute to find them on the AppStore and download them.
 
People... it's only France pissing and moaning because they're "France". Just pat 'em on the head and go about your business.
 
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Developers Account of What Happened

Read the developers account of what happened and why it was pulled. I would hope you don't feel Apple is justified for their actions after you read it.

Small portion of his post.

"Friday, April 5th was the day Apple decided to pull AppGratis out of the App Store, leaving our 12 million iOS users wondering where one of their favorite apps had gone, my 45 employees wondering if they’d still have a job next week, my partners and investors in shock, and myself with an absolutely crazy situation to deal with, thousands of miles away from our headquarters."

Simon Dawlat, CEO at AppGratis

http://appgratis.com/blog/2013/04/09/appgratis-pulled-from-the-app-store-heres-the-full-story/
 
chameleon81 said:
Regulators are there to establish fair competition. Unregulated free markets usually end up with 2-3 big companies screwing consumers and small players. For me the whole "Apps could be bought only from Appstore" is insane and I can not understand how regulators do not try to stop it.

I'm aware that Appstore is good for most of developers etc but people should have the choice. Imagine Windows forbids other browsers ( well they did in the past! )
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No one is forced to own an iPhone and Apple doesn't have anything close to a monopoly in the mobile space.
 
mdelvecchio said:
your logic is flawed. in the physical metaphor, apple owns a store. there are many other stores. those other stores can sell applications like AppGratis if they wish.

but requiring other stores to sell *iOS* apps would be like forcing mcdonald's to allow other stores to sell Big Macs, which is unique to mcdonald's.
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I disagree. McDonald's makes Big Macs, but Apple doesn't make AppGratis. The AppGratis developers should have the option to sell it anywhere, and as a user I should be able to buy it from wherever I like.
 
Judas1 said:
Retail stores don't have to carry items they they don't want to because those items can be sold at other retail stores. With the App Store, an ios app cannot be sold anywhere else. So if Apple can just determine arbitrarily what apps can and can't be sold, they can effectively destroy the software companies because there is no other market (IOS apps will only work on iOS, and can only be bought from the App Store.) That is extraordinary power, and frankly too much power. I don't get why some people can't see this.
Click to expand...

Here's why I can't "see it":

A consumer is tied to the Apple App store, and its ios apps, only if _he/she_ chooses to buy an Apple tablet or idevice in the first place. No one is holding a gun to his/her head. Thus, no consumer is prevented from buying, in the alternative, an Android tablet or device; then they will be free ostensibly from the "monopolistic practices" of Apple.

By the way, where is the correspondinlgy-EU French-produced hardware on which these IOS or Android or Windows phone apps run? If the AppGratis app developer truly wants to be "Apple-free," why doesn't he start a _French_ company to develop and produce his own hardware, as Apple has done in this country? All the EU can do is suck the blood from the talents and initiative of others; at the very least, maybe they could spend their time more productively producing some safety-enhanced fan-blade covers :eek:
 
Just to throw my own $.02 into the hat. I lived and worked in France and got a job at a direct competitor of AppGratis.

During my interview, I asked about regulation 2.20 and my then-boss said Apple would never actually act on it.

Well, looks like they did. I feel bad for the folks who are going to lose their jobs as a result of this, but the rules were laid out and these guys decided to do it anyway.

Glad I didn't last long there.
 
Saladinos said:
This. AppGratis supposedly just closed a multi-million dollar seed funding round. Now the company has effectively been shut down by Apple.

It is not in the public interest for Apple to have that amount of power over other businesses. Only the law should have that power.
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Businesses buy other businesses all the time to simply close them down. They may also buy up suppliers of a key component for a competitor and stop the supply of parts, or deliberately delay shipment to mess up production schedules. Or they sell their products at cost or even at a loss to drive the competitors out of the market.
 
4TheLoveOfTech said:
Read the developers account of what happened and why it was pulled. I would hope you don't feel Apple is justified for their actions after you read it.

Small portion of his post.

"Friday, April 5th was the day Apple decided to pull AppGratis out of the App Store, leaving our 12 million iOS users wondering where one of their favorite apps had gone, my 45 employees wondering if they’d still have a job next week, my partners and investors in shock, and myself with an absolutely crazy situation to deal with, thousands of miles away from our headquarters."

Simon Dawlat, CEO at AppGratis

http://appgratis.com/blog/2013/04/09/appgratis-pulled-from-the-app-store-heres-the-full-story/
Click to expand...

He left the part out that said his business was founded on a practice that was very clearly not allowed in the developer agreement. They didn't just change the agreement, they just started enforcing something that was already there. He may have a chance if apple just changed the policies after the fact, but I don't think he has much of a case here. If his investors were too stupid to read his business plan, not apple's fault. He can go develop for android now.
 
ariza910 said:
I can see where they might be coming from, it is brutal for Apple to let developers build a business around an app only to have the rug pulled out from under them. Apple has to do a better job of stopping these apps before they gather a significant following.
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Or, Developers can behave and abide by the very terms and rules they agreed to when they decided which platform to develop for.

Brutal? Yes, considering they were somewhat popular. But they knew they were playing with fire and now they've been...

tumblr_m5pkbm499O1rwcc6bo1_500.gif
ed.
I had to do it.​
 
markfc said:
Since when did the EU rule USA?
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They don't but Apple does business there and so must abide by their laws if it wants to continue doing so. What Apple does in the US is Obama's problem, not the EUs.

This has nothing to do with the EU telling the US what to do.

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bjsterilite said:
Or, Developers can behave and abide by the very terms and rules they agreed to when they decided which platform to develop for.

Brutal? Yes, considering they were somewhat popular. But they knew they were playing with fire and now they've been...

Imageed.
I had to do it.​
Click to expand...

Yes but if the terms are against law, there is room for change.
 
Rogifan said:
How is this harming the public exactly?
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It harms the public by pushing up prices - for example Apple's charges for in-app purchases are completely unjustifiable in many cases and undercut by 9/10ths by their competitors, the savings from which could be passed on to consumers.

But Apple bans those competing payment platforms.
 
finally somebody decided to look into apple's way of doing its business.

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mcfmullen said:
99.99% of apps are third party. I don't get your statement at all.
Click to expand...

he was probably referring to the default apps in iOS as in Safari, Apple maps and so on and the ability to change your preferred default app which currently you cant.
 
Nermal said:
I disagree. McDonald's makes Big Macs, but Apple doesn't make AppGratis. The AppGratis developers should have the option to sell it anywhere, and as a user I should be able to buy it from wherever I like.
Click to expand...

WRONG, you can make what ever product you like, no one can be forced to sell it for you.

Apple has always been up front about the IOS devices being a curated environment, so if you bought a device it was bought with that knowledge, so dont complain after the fact that you now cant do what you want. It would be like buying an XBox and complaining you cant buy games from Sony.
 
This is just a huge advertisement for AppGratis. Why are people propagating this garbage story? I'm sure the AG guys couldn't be happier now that they've been plastered across the entire internet (for free!). In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they intended this to happen as a consequence of their actions. Who hasn't heard of their product by now?

As for the issue itself, it's ********.

I write iOS and OS X programs and games for a living. I know several other people who do too. None of us have ever had any issues with Apple. The one time I had to contact them (Apple), the call was reasonably fast and I was put through to the person I had to talk to (it was about an approval issue regarding interpreted code as a part of the downloadable maps). The problem was solved in just under 25 minutes.

It's really simple- you abide by Apple's playground rules, or they kick your app out. They paid for it, they built it, and it's located on their property. End of story.

-SC
 
Nermal said:
I disagree. McDonald's makes Big Macs, but Apple doesn't make AppGratis. The AppGratis developers should have the option to sell it anywhere, and as a user I should be able to buy it from wherever I like.
Click to expand...

Then a better analogy might be a train operator that has control over all the tracks. This is frequently the case in many locations around the world. If that train operator decides that it will no longer purchase a particular type of railcar, engine, etc then it has shut that company out of the market, just as Apple has done with AppGratis. What would the consequence be for the train operator? The railcar(or whatever) manufacturer built its business model around being able to operate on the tracks owned by the operator.

I realize that this analogy is not perfect either. Here the train operator is buying the goods; whereas, Apple is not buying the apps.
 
chameleon81 said:
Regulators are there to establish fair competition. Unregulated free markets usually end up with 2-3 big companies screwing consumers and small players. For me the whole "Apps could be bought only from Appstore" is insane and I can not understand how regulators do not try to stop it.

I'm aware that Appstore is good for most of developers etc but people should have the choice. Imagine Windows forbids other browsers ( well they did in the past! )
Click to expand...

How do you propose to apply this to the PS3, PS4, Xbox 360, Wii, WiiU, Vita... ?

These are all closed platforms that require a single company to approve content.
 
The Phazer said:
It harms the public by pushing up prices - for example Apple's charges for in-app purchases are completely unjustifiable in many cases and undercut by 9/10ths by their competitors, the savings from which could be passed on to consumers.

But Apple bans those competing payment platforms.
Click to expand...

Well then the public is free to switch to those 9/10ths competitors. Is there one person forced to use an iDevice?
 
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