France Wants Apple to Lift iPhone Bluetooth Restrictions for Deployment of Virus Tracking App

[Brandhouse]

I fully support this. A similar app is being rolled out in Australia soon (France's and Australia's is based on the app released in Singapore) and is designed for contact tracking to model what's going on so countries can move from restrictions and ease back into normal life.
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Want a godsend this virus is turning out to be. The motive for impementing this has little to do with the virus, and I would go so far as to say that it has nothing to do with the virus. This virus has been what they were waiting for to get all media on board to convince the gullible public to just accept this, an easy task it seems. The virus panic will sustained for as long as this takes to get implemented. I can't believe people, people who should know better, are falling for this.

So you've been out protesting on the streets that your second amendment is at stake?

 

[ajfahey]

Welcome to Orwell's big brother.

 

[Brandhouse]

These apps and contact tracing with phones in general is not effective.

You have data from the app released in Singapore that this is modelled on, do you? If not, you're making an opinionated assumption.

 

[ajguckian]

I am pretty surprised that there are people in this thread who think this is not a horrific idea. Thank you to the majority who see it as a bad thing.

I would never allow this to happen on my phone, and If I couldn't stop it, I would actually get rid of the phone itself. The whole idea scares the hell out of me.

 

[mazz0]

Bloomberg is a rag that will say anything to discredit the current French regime!*

*this is a joke readers of the similar thread regarding the UK NHS might get.

 

[DeepIn2U]

This could be possible, if such Bluetooth permissions was based upon:
1. Developer licence
2. Application

such permissions would be only given for such Covid applications and select developers and not given out like candy.

más always it should be given out, if considered, with a hard end expiry date. Así with clear consumer understandable wording so everyone is made aware.

 

[Smartass]

I 100% guarantee that they will use this app for non-COVID related tracking too.

France can shove it.

Yes because having google obtain, prcoess and see health data of millions of people is sooo much better and safer, right?

I hope other countries will support FRance in this

 

[markgpearse]

If Apple does this, France will later sue Apple for breaking EU privacy laws.

 

[ashleykaryl]

The French are still hoping the world will switch to Minitel.

 

[Reason077]

Apple is right to protect user privacy on iOS devices, but I can also understand the authorities frustration at the slow roll out of the Apple/Google solution.

Contact tracing tech is really needed yesterday, but they’re being asked to wait until “later in the year”?

 

[AndiG]

No way I would allow this to go off my device. If Apple allows this then I’ll block Bluetooth completely or go back to old iOS

Interesting. Apple doesn't allow the downgrade of iOS, so how exactly would you go back to old iOS?
Regarding the blocking of bluetooth - this cannot be achieved without putting the iPhone in a potato chips bag (you'll need two of them to achieve a double layering).
Reason is the that for example Airplane mode doesn't disable all Wifi/Bluetooth functionality - a software switch is never guaranteed to do what you expect it to do.
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Apple shouldn't add tracking functionality to the core OS. Like Apple denies a backdoor because "there is no way to guarantee such control" there also shouldn't be any tracking functionality integrated in the OS.

I filed a bug report asking Apple if it wouldn't be better to implement this kind of functionality into a system app that can be removed by the user. So if the system app is present a fully blown tracking service is active in the background and if not just a dummy interface exists that delivers nonsense data.

This would return control to the user and is IMHO the only way to implement such kind of functionality.

 

[123]

Jesus. Does France not understand the security issue they would be creating?

France is so technology deficient

Do you know how they would have implemented it?
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This could be possible, if such Bluetooth permissions was based upon:
1. Developer licence
2. Application

such permissions would be only given for such Covid applications and select developers and not given out like candy.

This system ("entitlements") is also already in place for many other things, for example delivering silent notifications while the app is not running in the background (VoIP apps).

 

[russell_314]

It's really sad how many people would support the government tracking them for the feeling of safety. I guess the new generation has to learn their lessons the hard way just like previous generations did.

 

[simonmet]

You have data from the app released in Singapore that this is modelled on, do you? If not, you're making an opinionated assumption.

What data do you have? Uptake has been less than 20% in Singapore (17% was one figure I saw quoted) and at no point has the number of successful traces using the application in comparison to traditional contact tracing methods been reported. Their success in suppressing and controlling the virus is overwhelming a result of other social and cultural factors, an excellent health care system, as well as the social distancing/isolation, travel restrictions and other lockdown public health measures that other countries have also adopted.

Our government here suggested that if you used the app and you were unfortunate enough to be diagnosed, you wouldn't have to endure a long contact tracing interview, but that is a blatantly false lie. Only if uptake and use of the app was absolute (100%) and constant (i.e. not letting your phone go flat) would it negate the need for traditional contact tracing. They have also begun to wind back their messaging/claim that an adoption rate of 40% or better is required to have a meaningful impact on infection rates, because they know they won't get anywhere near it. Greg (C)Hunt went on to say that even a 1% adoption is beneficial. Really? So it'll miss 99% of contacts and that's worth the security and privacy risks?

There are other significant fallacies/falsifications being pushed by governments and you have to wonder why they're overstating its potential benefit so significantly and pushing so hard for something of little benefit in comparison to other measures that are already working. I've written further on the subject in a letter I plan to send to the paper and radio stations in the coming days.

 

[FlyingDutch]

Apple we don’t care if you are working with Google or not. If EU need that permission, give it to them without further discussions. We are speaking about saving people here.

 

[123]

at no point has the number of successful traces using the application in comparison to traditional contact tracing methods been reported

Their success in suppressing and controlling the virus is overwhelming a result of other social and cultural factors

So, based on your first quote, your second quote is just speculation.

 

[simonmet]

So, based on your first quote, your second quote is just speculation.

Read between the lines. It's not been reported because it's not significant. Don't you think if it was significant they'd be shouting it from the rooftops? Instead, they've been relying on a heavy dose of spin and scare tactics to "encourage" use of the application.

 

[Brandhouse]

Read between the lines. It's not been reported because it's not significant. Don't you think if it was significant they'd be shouting it from the rooftops? Instead, they've been relying on a heavy dose of spin and scare tactics to "encourage" use of the application.

Of course, it's a conspiracy, no wonder. Did you do the finger thing when you wrote "encourage". And BTW, if they didn't say it, then you use the single apostrophe, because you're not actually quoting anyone.
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What data do you have? Uptake has been less than 20% in Singapore (17% was one figure I saw quoted) and at no point has the number of successful traces using the application in comparison to traditional contact tracing methods been reported. Their success in suppressing and controlling the virus is overwhelming a result of other social and cultural factors, an excellent health care system, as well as the social distancing/isolation, travel restrictions and other lockdown public health measures that other countries have also adopted.

Our government here suggested that if you used the app and you were unfortunate enough to be diagnosed, you wouldn't have to endure a long contact tracing interview, but that is a blatantly false lie. Only if uptake and use of the app was absolute (100%) and constant (i.e. not letting your phone go flat) would it negate the need for other contact tracing. They have also begun to wind back their messaging/claim that an adoption rate of 40% or better is required to have a meaningful impact on infection rates, because they know they won't get anywhere near it. Greg (C)Hunt went on to say that even a 1% adoption is beneficial. Really? So it'll miss 99% of contacts and that's worth the security and privacy risks?

There are other significant fallacies/falsifications being pushed by governments and you have to wonder why they're overstating its potential benefit so significantly and pushing so hard for something of little benefit in comparison to other measures that are already working. I've written further on the subject in a letter I plan to send to the paper and radio stations in the coming days.

I don't think 100% uptake is required, the Australian government are asking us to do the same when the app comes out, and for the app to work it needs a minimum of 40% take up.

 

[simonmet]

Of course, it's a conspiracy, no wonder. Did you do the finger thing when you wrote "encourage". And BTW, if they didn't say it, then you use the single apostrophe, because you're not actually quoting anyone.
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I don't think 100% uptake is required, the Australian government are asking us to do the same when the app comes out, and for the app to work it needs a minimum of 40% take up.

If you care to look at the numbers and the facts, and understand some of the modelling, you will know that an adoption rate of 17% cannot have a significant impact on control; especially when it's meant to replace or enhance existing contact tracing method that is already happening.

But this is not even the main point of my argument against it. Other obvious and not-so-obvious flaws and concerns have been raised in other posts in this tread and in others on MacRumors recently; and I've written extensively about it not posted here.

But at the end of the day, if you think it's helping and it makes you happy by all means "you do you" and submit to the tracking, along with its anticipated additional battery drain and network activity. Fortunately, for now, it is a personal choice, and I've explained some (but not all) of the reasons for deciding against it personally (though I don't think these were understood). I'm sure you'll help the government to refine the technology for future voluntary or involuntary uses. At least RF meters exist so we generally know if a device is attempting to communicate.

Many others in this thread and elsewhere feel similarly to me.

 

[Brandhouse]

If you care to look at the numbers and the facts, and understand some of the modelling, you will know that an adoption rate of 17% cannot have a significant impact on control; especially when it's meant to replace or enhance existing contact tracing method that is already happening.

But this is not even the main point of my argument against it. Other obvious and not-so-obvious flaws and concerns have been raised in other posts in this tread and in others on MacRumors recently; and I've written extensively about it not posted here.

But at the end of the day, if you think it's helping and it makes you happy by all means "you do you" and submit to the tracking, along with its anticipated additional battery drain and network activity. Fortunately, for now, it is a personal choice, and I've explained some (but not all) of the reasons for deciding against it personally (though I don't think these were understood). I'm sure you'll help the government to refine the technology for future voluntary or involuntary uses. At least RF meters exist so we generally know if a device is attempting to communicate.

Many others in this thread and elsewhere feel similarly to me.

You continue with unfounded assumptions. Otherwise, call it out as opinion, which is not fact.

Others might feel the same, but what they wrote were easily read as opinions. You jumped on a soapbox espousing your opinion as fact.

 

[Plutonius]

It's only for this one time. /S

 

[Reason077]

It's only for this one time. /S

Definitely. Although, you know, it might also prove useful for tracking down terrorists. Oh, and pedophiles.

(and environmental activists... and social justice radicals... and political opponents...)

 

[Freida]

Easy, I will go back to my iPhone 6 which still runs old version of iOS

Interesting. Apple doesn't allow the downgrade of iOS, so how exactly would you go back to old iOS?
Regarding the blocking of bluetooth - this cannot be achieved without putting the iPhone in a potato chips bag (you'll need two of them to achieve a double layering).
Reason is the that for example Airplane mode doesn't disable all Wifi/Bluetooth functionality - a software switch is never guaranteed to do what you expect it to do.
[automerge]1587461224[/automerge]
Apple shouldn't add tracking functionality to the core OS. Like Apple denies a backdoor because "there is no way to guarantee such control" there also shouldn't be any tracking functionality integrated in the OS.

I filed a bug report asking Apple if it wouldn't be better to implement this kind of functionality into a system app that can be removed by the user. So if the system app is present a fully blown tracking service is active in the background and if not just a dummy interface exists that delivers nonsense data.

This would return control to the user and is IMHO the only way to implement such kind of functionality.

 

[Ronlap]

I 100% guarantee that they will use this app for non-COVID related tracking too.
France can shove it.

Agree. And I would think that Russia, Saudi Arabia and a handful of other countries would love to take advantage of such an API as well.

 

[truthertech]

I could see this if, Apple kept all the data on Apple servers and Apple had control of the server side code. I might trust France with this information. I would never trust the current United States.

LOL. A completely centralized government without the protections of our Bill of Rights, e.g., the government can, and did, simply outlawed wearing religious symbols in public schools, is the one you would trust to collect your personal information. Let's see which government mandates tracking of its citizens. LOL.