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Fraud

From A Buick 8 said:
Good point(s)

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You have yet to tell us why you made the purchase outside of Ebay
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I do not understand what the confusion is about purchasing "outside of ebay." Over many years I have purchased from people who had something for sale that never was listed on ebay. I also have purchased things from people whose items did not sell on eBay, and I made them an offer after the auction ended and they accepted. I have NEVER had anyone do this sort of thing before.

I bought and sold on ebay before PayPal and photos. In those days you had to send a cheque or money order. I never had any problems buying or selling. Ebay simply changed a lot after it was sold and went public.

Ebay is not necessarily a guarantee of anything, either. I purchased one rather expensive item on ebay a few years ago but could not get the payment to go through because at the time, PayPal said I had reached my "sending limit." PayPal no longer has "sending limits," but at that time they did. The seller had at least 2000 good feedbacks, so based on his long standing as a good seller on ebay, I sent him a personal cheque.

He shipped the item without proper packing, and it broke in transit. FedEx denied the claim because it had not been packed properly for shipping. He never refunded me. So, there was an instance where I went through ebay, paid by cheque because of PayPal's "sending limit," and lost my money due to an unscrupulous seller. Ebay saw the emails between the seller and I but refused to do anything. Plus, they continued to allow him to sell on ebay.
 
JohnApples said:
I know I'm beating a dead horse here, and I do feel your pain, but why would you go ahead with this? What were you trying to avoid by not going through ebay? Do you know you would have paid the same amount (or less) if you would have just gone through Apple? If you went to an Apple store, you wouldn't even have to wait for shipping. You even mentioned that you've attempted to buy a 5S online four previous times before this fraud occurred. Why were you so persistent on getting this phone via the internet? You weren't getting a deal at all, and you clearly didn't mind paying full price for the phone. So like I said, why not just go through Apple where you would have virtually zero risk AND you'd get a guaranteed limited warranty, free fast shipping...

Alright, that's all I'll say. I'm sorry that you were a victim of fraud and I truly hope you get your money back. However, that was an incredibly stupid decision on your part. I wish the best for you, good luck.
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Sometimes a buyer will say they will give you a better deal if you dont go through ebay because they wont have to pay ebay a fee.
 
HunnieBunnie said:
I feel pretty confident my credit card company and paypal will protect me on this. I have excellent credit and never a problem like this before with anything.
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You can forget about the credit card company protecting you on this. They will look into it, but at the end of the day, they're going to tell you that you need to file the complaint with Paypal, since they are who you used to send the funds.

Over the years I have had a couple of instances where I purchased merchandise from online stores that were probably small businesses. I had one item show up damaged and another that didn't show up at all. No luck getting a resolution from either company. I disputed both with the credit card company and they refused to do a charge back, because I used Paypal. Paypal wasn't responsible for the item, so the credit card company can't charge it back to Paypal.

Anyway, who knows what will happen since you went outside of eBay on this, but Paypal is going to be your best bet on getting your money back.

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ohernan said:
The buyer is not the scammer, the seller is.
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Read the rest of the thread. We're talking about two different things. That quote wasn't the OP or talking about the OP. He was telling us how he was scammed as a seller. Opposite of what happened to the OP.
 
ohernan said:
Sometimes a buyer will say they will give you a better deal if you dont go through ebay because they wont have to pay ebay a fee.
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Except he said he wasn't getting any sort of deal. He agreed to pay $600, which is the same amount, if not more, than he would have paid going through eBay or even the Apple Store. I just can't wrap my mind around why someone would do something so risky, on an item so expensive, when there was no benefit of doing so. None.
 
Rafterman said:
This was your first mistake. If you went outside the "system" (eBay), then you won't be covered for the fraud.
.
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Through paypal, you most certainly will. They cover outside of eBay transactions just as well as official eBay transactions.

If anything she has a BETTER case because the seller broke terms of service with eBay (who owns paypal) when agreeing to sell the device outside of eBay.
 
JohnApples said:
Except he said he wasn't getting any sort of deal. He agreed to pay $600, which is the same amount, if not more, than he would have paid going through eBay or even the Apple Store. I just can't wrap my mind around why someone would do something so risky, on an item so expensive, when there was no benefit of doing so. None.
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The buyer pointed out (later, not in the riginal post) that it was a 64GB iPhone 5. $600 is a better deal than you would get through Apple right now.

Not saying the decision was a smart one, but still.

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HunnieBunnie said:
I do not understand what the confusion is about purchasing "outside of ebay." Over many years I have purchased from people who had something for sale that never was listed on ebay. I also have purchased things from people whose items did not sell on eBay, and I made them an offer after the auction ended and they accepted. I have NEVER had anyone do this sort of thing before.
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FYI this is against their TOS. Make sure NOT to mention this when working yor case...
 
lordofthereef said:
The buyer pointed out multiple times that it was a 64GB iPhone 5. $600 is a better deal than you would get through Apple right now.

Not saying the decision was a smart one, but still.
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Oh okay, that was my mistake. I reread and saw he did mention it, once, not multiple times. Anyway, it hardly changes the case... the 'deal' is still miniscule especially considering the risk. I suppose none of it matters now, anyway. All you can do is hope you get your money back, OP, and learn from this mistake.
 
JohnApples said:
Oh okay, that was my mistake. I reread and saw he did mention it, once, not multiple times. Anyway, it hardly changes the case... the 'deal' is still miniscule especially considering the risk. I suppose none of it matters now, anyway. All you can do is hope you get your money back, OP, and learn from this mistake.
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I edited my post, but it was before you started responding it seems :)

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nostresshere said:
3 - Not only should you file a complaint with the credit card company to decline the charge, but you should change your credit card number TODAY.
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Why? The seller has no way to have any of this information.
 
HunnieBunnie said:
I saw the phone on eBay, but I did not purchase through eBay. Police report has been filed. I am sure the credit card company and the police will investigate this as thoroughly as possible.
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So you and the ebay seller decided to complete the transaction outside of ebay (against their rules)? No wonder why you're getting screwed.
 
Ebay has made HUGE progress with buyer protection. They actually guarantee everything now. If there's an issue, it's usually a dispute that is sided in favor of the seller.

So all the crooks are mad as hell about this LOL

From the OP's reasoning about this, and that, you must come away knowing that it was a mistake and never do it.

I've had plenty of problems with sellers and to this day, haven't lost anything through arbitration. I'm talking thousands here.

Just hope you get your money back. You seem like a nice person. :)

note: something worth mentioning, that I find fascinating. Before Ebay made these draconian changes to security, in the early Days of Ebay high dollar crime was so prevalent, that records in larceny were set for years. :D People lost tons, and tons, and tons, of cash.
 
A few things:

- If you bought it outside of eBay but still used Paypal as your payment method, Paypal also has buyer protection and you can easily get your money back by opening a case stating that the item is "significantly not as described"
- If you used a credit card for the payment, just file a chargeback and you should get your money back
- You can report the buyer to eBay for offering to complete the transaction outside the site (unless you were the one who initiated the offer). That's a major policy violation.

I've sold lots of things on eBay and occasionally sold outside of eBay to avoid their high fees as well. For buyers to protect themselves Paypal offers protection that is just as good as eBay's. So if you ever buy something via Paypal, you're protected as long as you don't send the money as "Gift for friends or family".

Also for buying things through Paypal or eBay itself I always recommend paying with your credit card. That why if you need to file a claim and somehow lose, you can still file a chargeback with your card company to get your money back. I've only ever had to do it once for an item I bought from a seller that never appeared after more than 45 days had passed.
 
HunnieBunnie said:
I do not understand what the confusion is about purchasing "outside of ebay." Over many years I have purchased from people who had something for sale that never was listed on ebay. I also have purchased things from people whose items did not sell on eBay, and I made them an offer after the auction ended and they accepted. I have NEVER had anyone do this sort of thing before.

I bought and sold on ebay before PayPal and photos. In those days you had to send a cheque or money order. I never had any problems buying or selling. Ebay simply changed a lot after it was sold and went public.

Ebay is not necessarily a guarantee of anything, either. I purchased one rather expensive item on ebay a few years ago but could not get the payment to go through because at the time, PayPal said I had reached my "sending limit." PayPal no longer has "sending limits," but at that time they did. The seller had at least 2000 good feedbacks, so based on his long standing as a good seller on ebay, I sent him a personal cheque.

He shipped the item without proper packing, and it broke in transit. FedEx denied the claim because it had not been packed properly for shipping. He never refunded me. So, there was an instance where I went through ebay, paid by cheque because of PayPal's "sending limit," and lost my money due to an unscrupulous seller. Ebay saw the emails between the seller and I but refused to do anything. Plus, they continued to allow him to sell on ebay.
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Wow - that's like buying a burger from an MacDonalds, with the person selling it to you happening to be an ebay seller and then contacting ebay because the burger tasted bad. eBay can't help you if you sell it outside ebay, they can't get your money back they're not the police.

Dumb move selling that you haven't written up an agreement for that you can show as proof if a sale does go wrong - or if you sell outside ebay.

I severely doubt you'll get your money back.
 
CEmajr said:
A few things:

- If you bought it outside of eBay but still used Paypal as your payment method, Paypal also has buyer protection and you can easily get your money back by opening a case stating that the item is "significantly not as described"
.
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Chargebacks? easily?

Why would you tell people this?
Just because you like to cheat ebay, and yes that's what you are doing by posting there and then selling outside of it .

Don't suggest others follow your stellar example.
 
Have you try to find him with the paypal email he sent you?

Have you try to search on google and facebook with his name.

Do you call him or he calls you? He send you a mail?

There is a lot of info on the internet about this guy to find him if your credit card company or paypal don't want to help.

Also stop trusting people in this times you can't trust people, even he told you that the phone is sealed it could be broken have a issue or anything. If you want to buy something do it in front of the seller.
 
I got a payment from a zero feedback bidder.
I got a paypal email that says I have money. Paypal's site says that the address is confirmed....but the email address bounces and lo and behold, the dude must have created a fake paypal invoice. Logging into Paypal, it appears that I do not have any money waiting for me at all.

Fakers!
 
After I paid for the phone, he relisted it. I contacted him via ebay's system and asked him just how many of these phones he had available. No reply, but I thought he may have had several to sell. It finally sold for $631 on this last listing of it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/iphone-5s-u...5xS8Bv%2B%2FJ12%2FY8I%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

I have bought tons of items on eBay, and rarely have I had any sort of problem with sellers. Most of the sellers describe their items truthfully, and most pack well and ship pretty quickly. At the time I bought this phone from this seller, I had no reason to think that he may not have the phone or may do the sort of thing he did to me. Also, if a seller is dishonest, as is this one, this sort of thing could have happened with any sort of commodity. It did not have to be a mobile phone for this sort of thing to happen. He is just a thief.

For all of you who are fixated on buying "within eBay," please realise the same exact thing could have happened regardless. I could have paid for the phone via PayPal, as I did do, and he could have shipped me a bar of soap as he did do. Buying "within" eBay would not have been a guarantee of protection against this sort of thing. PayPal and my credit card company are where I expect protection, and I expect I will be protected. I saved all of my emails with this seller, including those sent between our regular email addresses, and I feel certain that the investigators will see that he is the dishonest person in all of this, not I.
 
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