Thanks...I guess that makes sense. If they can't fix the "old" machines they don't know what is wrong to correct for newly made machines.
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Freezing iMac Issue Due to Hardware?
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Thanks...I guess that makes sense. If they can't fix the "old" machines they don't know what is wrong to correct for newly made machines.
Apple only stat the graphics model number and memory, they do not advertise the speed of the GPU or VRAM is clocked at, so yes, they can make adjustments to the spec as it is within the initial (vague) spec
Like the lady from Fargo said, I'm not sure that I agree with you 100% on your police work, there, Lou.
Heat might indeed be the problem (I have no way of knowing). However, there's no logic in saying that a plastic case would be a better computer shell than a metal one because of component overheating. Metals conduct, polymers generally insulate. A metal case would more easily transfer that heat out into the room, while a plastic case would be more apt to retain it. The heating issue you run into with a metal case is that the heat does get transferred so efficiently, right onto your lap if you're using a notebook.
Just thought I needed to throw in my $0.02 of basic materials science.
You knew nothing.
I don't agree with the statement that it is heat related. I have monitors on my CPU and GPU that shows my operating temperature staying well below the recommended maximums, yet before I upgraded to Leopard I would get random hangs; not just graphical, but audio and processing hangs as well. Since Leopard I have not--yet--had a single hang.
If anyone is having overheating issues, try getting some airflow around the computer. Get that clutter out from underneath the machine and pull it a couple inches away from the wall. Then buy Leopard or wait for the next Tiger update to see if your problems don't go away.
I don't agree with the statement that it is heat related. I have monitors on my CPU and GPU that shows my operating temperature staying well below the recommended maximums, yet before I upgraded to Leopard I would get random hangs; not just graphical, but audio and processing hangs as well. Since Leopard I have not--yet--had a single hang.
If anyone is having overheating issues, try getting some airflow around the computer. Get that clutter out from underneath the machine and pull it a couple inches away from the wall. Then buy Leopard or wait for the next Tiger update to see if your problems don't go away.
Yep, I posted just such a speculation back in early October.
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4310458&#post4310458
Now lets see if Apple fixes it, or if they just ignore current users and limp them past their warranty like they did with the G5 systems.
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4310458&#post4310458
Now lets see if Apple fixes it, or if they just ignore current users and limp them past their warranty like they did with the G5 systems.
GPU Overheating
I disagree with this analysis. While it may be possible that some GPUs are weak and sensitive to thermal runaway, this doesn't explain why machines hang after cold boots or when indicated temperatures are well below rated maximums. In most cases, a simple decluttering of your desk and moving the computer away from the wall should be all you need to do to reduce higher temperatures (unless, of course, it's sitting just above a heating vent.)
On the other hand, the issue of screen freezes I had in my iMac Extreme (24" 2.8Ghz) went away when I upgraded to Leopard out of Tiger. I expect that an upcoming Tiger update will include whatever fixed my issue.
I disagree with this analysis. While it may be possible that some GPUs are weak and sensitive to thermal runaway, this doesn't explain why machines hang after cold boots or when indicated temperatures are well below rated maximums. In most cases, a simple decluttering of your desk and moving the computer away from the wall should be all you need to do to reduce higher temperatures (unless, of course, it's sitting just above a heating vent.)
On the other hand, the issue of screen freezes I had in my iMac Extreme (24" 2.8Ghz) went away when I upgraded to Leopard out of Tiger. I expect that an upcoming Tiger update will include whatever fixed my issue.
And why is that? Cause my iMac has never crashed or frozen once, don't assume what you hear is the whole story, not everyone is effected. Today it's 2 months old, and I couldn't be happier with my purchase. Just got Leopard yesterday, I'm so happy with it.
Again case in point, not everyone is having this problem.
I will follow this issue with interest. This is my first ever Mac hardware and how apple supports it is going to decide if it's the last. My iMac doesn't freeze - at least not yet. It definitely could be a heat issue, even for those whose iMacs are freezing on a cold start. The damage could have been done originally during a longer session when heat was an issue. My interest will be in how Apple handles it if it turns out to be a heat issue.
Rich
Rich
I will follow this issue with interest. This is my first ever Mac hardware and how apple supports it is going to decide if it's the last. My iMac doesn't freeze - at least not yet. It definitely could be a heat issue, even for those whose iMacs are freezing on a cold start. The damage could have been done originally during a longer session when heat was an issue. My interest will be in how Apple handles it if it turns out to be a heat issue.
Rich
The smart thing to do is run smcFanControl 2.0 until Apple issues a fan firmware update. I've built a lot of computers in my day and I know that stock for stock the iMac fans spin way too slow. Bump them up from 700/1200/1200rpm to 1500/2500/2000 it's still really quiet. The components don't get nearly as hot. I run 2600/3340/2300 during gaming and encoding. Heat could have been an issue, but I've been running SMC since the week I bought the new iMac, so it's possible I haven't fried my components like some people might have by running stock fan speeds.
And maybe this explains why I can go 6 hours on end gaming without an issue, 10 hours of video encoding without an issue and so on for the last 2 months.
Early Sept Alu IMAC
I guess I'm lucky, got one of the early Sept Alu 24" 2.8's. Not an issue ever with it freezing! After leopard though, I have noticed more problems with Safari than anything else.
Apple has me in their hooks, going to get a new Macbook Pro or Macbook next release and of course an Iphone soon....
I guess I'm lucky, got one of the early Sept Alu 24" 2.8's. Not an issue ever with it freezing! After leopard though, I have noticed more problems with Safari than anything else.
Apple has me in their hooks, going to get a new Macbook Pro or Macbook next release and of course an Iphone soon....
damn
i'd certainly be pissed if i bought a powermac that froze on me. ha! I plan to get an imac, but i may wait til the next-gen. hopefully next spring? i dont need it til June 2008 when I'm off to post-secondary, but I'm excited to see what comes out on the next iMac aside from the freezing fix.
i'd certainly be pissed if i bought a powermac that froze on me. ha! I plan to get an imac, but i may wait til the next-gen. hopefully next spring? i dont need it til June 2008 when I'm off to post-secondary, but I'm excited to see what comes out on the next iMac aside from the freezing fix.
Some have noted these issues have become more prominent under Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) due to its increased dependance on the GPU (X1900XT).
More the reason to update the MacPro and GPUs for November 13th.
More the reason to update the MacPro and GPUs for November 13th.
Some have noted these issues have become more prominent under Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) due to its increased dependance on the GPU (X1900XT).
More the reason to update the MacPro and GPUs for November 13th.
Actually, it just makes me glad I saved some money and went with the nVidia card that it comes with.
I'd be pretty upset if I had paid to upgrade to a more expensive card that caused all this trouble.
Um, actually I did. When scores of people were denying up and down that it could be a hardware issue and insisted it was software related, I stated I believed it to be a hardware issue, and I was right.
This is exactly the kind of stuff internet media wants you to do, scare you in to buying something because the hype. Do as you must. It's only your loss.
Never buy any Apple product if your concerned about quality. Every Apple machine I've owned (with the exception of my DA PowerMac) has died several times due to faulty hardware, specifically logicboards. Their OS on the other hand is gold.
VERY PROMINENT!! i'd call it more like UNUSABLE
mac pro & x1900 is messed up on leopard big time
part of my MEGABUGS post yesterday. 6 of my friends and me have the mac pros with x1900 and since upgrading to leopard see lines and junk drawn all over the screen that was never there in tiger
another
rush job.like i said before this bug comes up on 7/7 mac pros with the included radeon x1900 so i find it hard to believe that didnt notice this megabug before releasing it to us and making us pay for a broken systemand like i said before a new os is bound to have some bugs but the huge ones in leopard that make it unusable for many people with such glaring bugs there is no excuse
Or, you can listen to other's problems, and save yourself the hassle. I wish I had done as much with the last two iMac's I had.
Instead, I passed it off as the bad luck of a few, and I ended-up with every problem that you could imagine with them. I spent so much time with them in the shop, that after six months of ownership, I only had a couple weeks of actual usage on them.
Exactly. That is why heatsinks are made out of metal. Because they conduct the heat away from the source and disperse it over a larger surface area thus speeding cooling.
Thanks, that's exactly the point
They did it with the iBook. I would not put it passed them. Look at it like this, they already have your money.
This isn't overheating, but it is video card related.
I've been troubleshooting this on my machine, and the machines do not actually hard-lock in most cases.
What happens is that the VIDEO locks up, the machine itself is actually still running fine. This is true in both Boot Camp and OSX.
I'm suspecting faulty memory in the GPU itself, which is corrupting and freezing the video output.
I've been troubleshooting this on my machine, and the machines do not actually hard-lock in most cases.
What happens is that the VIDEO locks up, the machine itself is actually still running fine. This is true in both Boot Camp and OSX.
I'm suspecting faulty memory in the GPU itself, which is corrupting and freezing the video output.
Just to throw another log on the fire, so to speak: just today our 20" iMac displayed random video garbage in every window. The Mac did not crash or freeze. I was able to save and shut down in an orderly fashion (flying blind, essentially) and restart. Now everything is back to normal. First instance of this issue in two month of daily use.
Hardware, software or firmware, it looks like a GPU issue.
Hardware, software or firmware, it looks like a GPU issue.
Some comments for the initiated:
Some comments for the initiated:
Electronic components have very little thermal mass, and without firmly attached heat sink using thermal paste/pad can heat very quickly. For example, I have designed a circuit presently sold in serial product where a power op-amp (LM1875) normally operates at 80 degrees Celsius when connected to a modest stamped aluminum heat sink, but without heat sink reaches 170 degrees Celsius and shuts down around 10 seconds after powerup.
Often an external temperature sensor is mounted to the heat sink along-side the component of interest. However, if the component is not firmly mounted to the heat sink, the sensor measures a low temperature while the actual component temperature might be very much higher. In this case, software has difficulty reacting because the true high temperature is unknown. Also, upon powerup, errors in temperature measurements would be especially wrong. Some processors have internal temperature measurement, but thermal gradients might also exist within for rapidly changing temperatures, and where lowpass filtering of temperature is used.
Aluminum is expensive--more expensive than steel and plastic. Aluminum has higher thermal conductivity than either steel or plastic. When aluminum is used in electronics it is usually for heatsinking (drawing heat away from hot components). I strongly suspect Apple chose an aluminum chassis to dissipate internal heat around the external shell and into the air without using excessive noisy fans. If the iMac exterior is getting hot, it means heat from internal components is reaching the casing and the thermal management scheme is working.
Heat sinks must be attached firmly with very flat smooth surfaces using thermal paste or heat pad. Consistently attaching a large aluminum chassis to draw heat from internal components sounds difficult, and therefore could be the root of the lockup problem.
A heated component can have different timing or other characteristics. If a circuit design is pushing component specifications for maximum performance (or by design lapse), temperature changes might bring out faults. All parts are specified with tolerances on specifications so one part might fail to operate in a situation where another has no problem. Specifications may drift over time.
(Irregardless of temperature, Apple could simply be pushing hardware specifications too close, or ATI publishing wrong/misleading specs).
Apple could conceivably release an upgrade that counts lockups and throttles back performance until lockups cease.
Some comments for the initiated:
Electronic components have very little thermal mass, and without firmly attached heat sink using thermal paste/pad can heat very quickly. For example, I have designed a circuit presently sold in serial product where a power op-amp (LM1875) normally operates at 80 degrees Celsius when connected to a modest stamped aluminum heat sink, but without heat sink reaches 170 degrees Celsius and shuts down around 10 seconds after powerup.
Often an external temperature sensor is mounted to the heat sink along-side the component of interest. However, if the component is not firmly mounted to the heat sink, the sensor measures a low temperature while the actual component temperature might be very much higher. In this case, software has difficulty reacting because the true high temperature is unknown. Also, upon powerup, errors in temperature measurements would be especially wrong. Some processors have internal temperature measurement, but thermal gradients might also exist within for rapidly changing temperatures, and where lowpass filtering of temperature is used.
Aluminum is expensive--more expensive than steel and plastic. Aluminum has higher thermal conductivity than either steel or plastic. When aluminum is used in electronics it is usually for heatsinking (drawing heat away from hot components). I strongly suspect Apple chose an aluminum chassis to dissipate internal heat around the external shell and into the air without using excessive noisy fans. If the iMac exterior is getting hot, it means heat from internal components is reaching the casing and the thermal management scheme is working.
Heat sinks must be attached firmly with very flat smooth surfaces using thermal paste or heat pad. Consistently attaching a large aluminum chassis to draw heat from internal components sounds difficult, and therefore could be the root of the lockup problem.
A heated component can have different timing or other characteristics. If a circuit design is pushing component specifications for maximum performance (or by design lapse), temperature changes might bring out faults. All parts are specified with tolerances on specifications so one part might fail to operate in a situation where another has no problem. Specifications may drift over time.
(Irregardless of temperature, Apple could simply be pushing hardware specifications too close, or ATI publishing wrong/misleading specs).
Apple could conceivably release an upgrade that counts lockups and throttles back performance until lockups cease.