Freezing iMac Issue Due to Hardware?

[jrabata]

Video driver before iMac Software Upgrade 1.1 does not freeze

I am also suffering from a freezing 20" alu iMac (bought it on 28th Aug).

What is very interesting is that if I do not upgrade the video driver (skip the iMac Software Upgrade x.x.x upgrades in Software Upgrade after a clean Archive and Install) OS X does not freeze during normal use. World of Warcraft was also working fine till the last WoW patch which crippled the graphics and now everything is static in the game.

I think something fishy was brough in starting from iMac Software Update 1.1 (and later). Since Leopard uses the latest video drivers I assume they use something similar to the latest Tiger drivers, hence the freezes from day one.

The worst thing is that I don't know what to think: is it a software issue or hardware problem? I just desperately want to get it fixed...

 

[Mysticneonglow]

ATI Card

that depends on the application. for the madden game for instance, it is happening to MBP, alum iMacs and pro towers. 75% are using ati cards, 100% have a "metal" casing.

I switched out my NVIDIA in my G5 for an ATI card about a year ago and I just started getting this freezing issue no earlier than 2 months ago. I can't say I have been doing anything graphically intense on it recently. Glad nothings happened to my MBP yet

 

[ShockTroop]

BootCamp

that depends on the application. for the madden game for instance, it is happening to MBP, alum iMacs and pro towers. 75% are using ati cards, 100% have a "metal" casing.

All of the games I play are run through bootcamp. Has anyone had freezes under bootcamp?

 

[mavis]

I called this more than a month ago,

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/4274049/

and I even recommended that people use smcfancontrol2 to bump their minimum RPM's to avoid freezing

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/364088/

but I never heard back from anyone as to whether or not this simple suggestion helped ...

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I've never had any freezing of any kind on my iMac, and I've been running SMCFanControl2 since day one. Nothing fancy with the speeds (1200/1800/1500) but boosting the idle speeds doesn't have to mean aggressive timings - any little bit helps.

 

[zorinlynx]

I called this more than a month ago,

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/4274049/

and I even recommended that people use smcfancontrol2 to bump their minimum RPM's to avoid freezing

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/364088/

but I never heard back from anyone as to whether or not this simple suggestion helped ...

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I've never had any freezing of any kind on my iMac, and I've been running SMCFanControl2 since day one. Nothing fancy with the speeds (1200/1800/1500) but boosting the idle speeds doesn't have to mean aggressive timings - any little bit helps.

I've wondered why Apple is so conservative with fan speeds. On both of my Macs (Mac Pro, Macbook Pro) I use SMCFan Control to run my fans 500RPM faster than default. Why? The machines just FEEL like they're running to hot at the defaults. A mere 500RPM faster and they stay MUCH cooler, and I imagine they'll last much longer.

Is Apple so obsessed with making their computers silent that they'll sacrafice reliability to do so? That seems short-righted. And afterall, they're STILL extremely silent even 500RPM above baseline.

 

[BenRoethig]

I called it weeks ago. I knew it.

Overheating ATI cards FTW. Apple chooses cost over quality. Consumers lose.

ATI designed these cards for a tower case with plenty of airflow, not the cramped laptop like confines of an iMac.

 

[avkills]

ATI could not cool an ice cube; the pathetic cooling system on my x800 failed about a year ago. The stupid heat sink is actually held on the boards by solder.. yes SOLDER! Lets see, we need to cool something that gets insanely hot, so lets attach it by something that turns to liquid under heat. Brilliant plan.

-mark

 

[Luap]

"I called this ages ago"



With all due respect, those folks that said this are not proven to be right at all. Again, AppleInsider is known for posting crap. And this article could likely be no different. Especially as it appears to be a user submitted story.
Im not saying it isn't a hardware issue, but without proof, its still too early to say "I knew it all along! I was so right". Especially as there is known to be another software update on the way which may resolve the issue.

And... Although SMCfancontrol is potentially useful, and does work, in as much as it does drop system temps significantly. It makes no difference to how often these iMacs freeze. None, not even a bit. Zilch, nada.
I've spent many an hour testing it on 2 different freezing iMacs now.

Leopard is another interesting thing with these freezing iMacs.. There are quite a few folks that say it made the freezing problems worse for them. But for my iMac it improved things substantially. Its not perfect, granted, but for whatever reason, it is definitely a lot better.

 

[FakeWozniak]

No Problems before Leopard

Tiger worked great for 2 weeks before I installed Leopard on my new iMac and older iBook G4. I used to leave both on all the time and never had any issues before the upgrade.

Now with Leopard, the iMac locks up randomly, but usually on boot. I leave it off now so I don't corrupt my drive, while waiting for an upgrade from Apple. Even booting when the iMac has been off for a day, it still locks up. I believe it is totally software.

With the latest iMac update, I now see glitches on the account pictures when logging in, and the dock and bouncing applications are all grainy if even there. Sometimes moving windows around will leave trails of grit. I am 100% sure it is a graphics problem. Just not ready to downgrade the ATI drivers to the Tiger version yet.

I have an iBook G4 which is also seeing video card flakiness with Leopard. It has the ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 chipset and has the same graphic problems as the iMac. Seems related to Quartz Extreme functionality.

The problem with downgrading to Tiger is that my mailbox, iPhoto library, et. al., have been converted and I doubt I can downgrade those.

 

[atl27426]

I am also suffering from a freezing 20" alu iMac (bought it on 28th Aug).

What is very interesting is that if I do not upgrade the video driver (skip the iMac Software Upgrade x.x.x upgrades in Software Upgrade after a clean Archive and Install) OS X does not freeze during normal use. World of Warcraft was also working fine till the last WoW patch which crippled the graphics and now everything is static in the game.

I think something fishy was brough in starting from iMac Software Update 1.1 (and later). Since Leopard uses the latest video drivers I assume they use something similar to the latest Tiger drivers, hence the freezes from day one.

The worst thing is that I don't know what to think: is it a software issue or hardware problem? I just desperately want to get it fixed...

Same issue with me. Bought my iMac on Aug 9th, never had a problem until they started to release firmware "fixes". Two days ago did an Archive and Install, did not download 1.1 or 1.2, couldn't anyways Apple removed them because they are clearly bad.

No problems or freeze issues with my current firmware which is .

EFI Driver Version: 01.00.207

Appears to me users with EFI Driver Version xx.xx.212 are the ones having most of the issues. I have yet to see anyone report problems using 207.

Based only on my own experience with this issue and the fact 1.2 just made things worse tells me this is firmware related.

Also has anyone noticed that when you boot into Windows and go into device managers your imac video card shows as a 2600xt not a 2600pro. If that doesn't scream driver issue I don't know what does.

 

[LogicalVue]

Someone above asked a good question, I think: "Has anyone seen this freezing problem in BootCamp"?

After all, if it is a hardware problem it should occur in Windows as well. If it's not happening in Windows then we should assume that a future Apple Software Update should be able to fix this.

I don't have one of these iMacs, but a friend of mine does and he has seen it freeze. I only buy refurbished stuff from Apple, for precisely these reasons (and to save a bit of $$$).

 

[Stridder44]

Early MacBooks also had heat-related issues, though it was more of a shutdown than a freeze.

Never by Rev A products from any manufacturer. (if you care)

Couldn't agree more. Doesn't surprise me that an ATI card is overheating either. I've had similar problems with Windows boxes too.

 

[chuckyboy81070]

Someone above asked a good question, I think: "Has anyone seen this freezing problem in BootCamp"?

After all, if it is a hardware problem it should occur in Windows as well. If it's not happening in Windows then we should assume that a future Apple Software Update should be able to fix this.

i've had freezes in bootcamp as well as in leopard. for example, sometimes in windows picture screensaver, it will freeze. the "freeze" is slightly different in that the screen will flash to black and look to be completely "lightless" as apposed to in os x when it freezes to black and you can still see a faint light emanating from the screen. also, pressing the power button in windows during a freeze invokes an orderly shutdown.

 

[DMann]

iStat

While my iMac 2.4 has been fine, she does get toasty.

I used to own an hp Pavillion zd7000 laptop and those models were somewhat notorious for cooking their nVidia GoFX5700 GPUs, even running at a 100MHz core and 100MHz memory clocks.

So Apple isn't alone...

Running iStat pro, (Widget) what temperature is the CPU and GPU diode running at? Normal would be approx 100º CPU and slightly higher for GPU diode.

 

[DMann]

Ati

I switched out my NVIDIA in my G5 for an ATI card about a year ago and I just started getting this freezing issue no earlier than 2 months ago. I can't say I have been doing anything graphically intense on it recently. Glad nothings happened to my MBP yet

More affirmation for ATI being the main cause.

 

[KurtangleTN]

You know this issue wouldn't be such a big deal if Apple had as much choice as say, Dell or any other PC maker. It would simply be one model, but instead it's 1/5 models.

Apple's lack of choice and narrow minded view of simplicity when it comes to buying really pisses me off. You're either a pro that can drop about 3 grand on a tower, or a consumer that doesn't care about expandability and needs a glorified laptop as a desktop.

Apple, crappy hardware prices, choice, great software.

 

[glennyboiwpg]

The lesson is the same as always!

Never buy a Apple revision A product!!

Too True! As soon as the alum imac came out I went out and bought a sweet 24 inch White imac demo unit.


Best thing I ever did... although i have to sink some more ram into that puppy.

 

[Cheffy Dave]

Oh, most definitely. I asked about this at the "Genius Bar"... I still can't say that with dignity.

... I asked about that and was told that their knowledge base didn't clearly indicate the root cause of the bad video memory, but that from what he was reading it appeared to just be faulty memory.

Bah!

My last trip to the Apple Store at the International Mall in Tampa drew blank stares from 5 black shirts (salepeople not Geniuses) that I queried One acted totally surprised when I found a link to the problem on Apples Support site)
As a PC guy wanting IN, this doesn't bode well, the fact that I know more than the sales force,(If indeed this is the case), and I know only what I read here. In fact, when I had this site up, in an attempt to find a link to the problem. a black shirt bumped me out of the way and took Macrumors down. That action alone spoke volumes.

 

[DMann]

Hardware

You know this issue wouldn't be such a big deal if Apple had as much choice as say, Dell or any other PC maker. It would simply be one model, but instead it's 1/5 models.

Apple's lack of choice and narrow minded view of simplicity when it comes to buying really pisses me off. You're either a pro that can drop about 3 grand on a tower, or a consumer that doesn't care about expandability and needs a glorified laptop as a desktop.

Apple, crappy hardware prices, choice, great software.

Perhaps true, but considering that one CAN upgrade the graphics card as well as swap the CPU, (Apple could have had these soldered in) not all venues of expandability are shut off.

 

[Mindflux]

Perhaps true, but considering that one CAN upgrade the graphics card as well as swap the CPU, (Apple could have had these soldered in) not all venues of expandability are shut off.

For how little spec about the MXM card slot is given the incompatibilities are endless, not to mention the sheer lack of MXM video cards or support for them in OS X.

 

[flopticalcube]

All of the games I play are run through bootcamp. Has anyone had freezes under bootcamp?

Yes. I have had freezing running CS:S and Gary's Mod under Bootcamp.

 

[Mindflux]

ATI designed these cards for a tower case with plenty of airflow, not the cramped laptop like confines of an iMac.

I guess you missed the part about these being the HD 2600 Radeon Mobility. I'll give you one guess to figure out what they intended this chip to go in. Cmon, you can do it.

 

[overcast]

I've read from owners that freezes occur after a cold boot, so this doesn't make much sense to me that the GPU is overheating, although another type of GPU fault is likely IMO.

How long do you think it takes for a GPU/CPU to heat up after a "cold" boot.

 

[awalla]

But, whatcha gonna do. 30+ Macs in the last 2 years and this is the first one with hardware issues. Thats pretty good for me, I just feel sorry for all of the Mac converts who got one of the unlucky machines at first go.

I'm a recent switcher and this is driving me insane. I NEVER had this many problems with a Windows machine in the past 10 years. After 2 calls to Applecare, Apple won't acknowledge the problem because I can't recreate it on the phone. I think having to send in my brand new machine for repair is unacceptable. I'd be more than willing to swap out my 24" machine at the local Apple store with a working unit.

 

[Cheffy Dave]

I disagree with this analysis. While it may be possible that some GPUs are weak and sensitive to thermal runaway, this doesn't explain why machines hang after cold boots or when indicated temperatures are well below rated maximums. In most cases, a simple decluttering of your desk and moving the computer away from the wall should be all you need to do to reduce higher temperatures (unless, of course, it's sitting just above a heating vent.)

On the other hand, the issue of screen freezes I had in my iMac Extreme (24" 2.8Ghz) went away when I upgraded to Leopard out of Tiger. I expect that an upcoming Tiger update will include whatever fixed my issue.

Unless through constant overheating, some damage has been done, thus exhibiting the problem continually, even during cold boots. I had a similiar problem in a small form factor PC I owned, with an ATI card. In spite of an an additional Zalman cooler, the problem never went away until I replaced the Video card with a EVGA 320-P2-N815-AR GeForce 8800GTS . Just my FYI

Like the lady from Fargo said, I'm not sure that I agree with you 100% on your police work, there, Lou.

Heat might indeed be the problem (I have no way of knowing). However, there's no logic in saying that a plastic case would be a better computer shell than a metal one because of component overheating. Metals conduct, polymers generally insulate. A metal case would more easily transfer that heat out into the room, while a plastic case would be more apt to retain it. The heating issue you run into with a metal case is that the heat does get transferred so efficiently, right onto your lap if you're using a notebook.

Just thought I needed to throw in my $0.02 of basic materials science.

More 2 cents worth a Five spot

The smart thing to do is run smcFanControl 2.0 until Apple issues a fan firmware update. I've built a lot of computers in my day and I know that stock for stock the iMac fans spin way too slow. Bump them up from 700/1200/1200rpm to 1500/2500/2000 it's still really quiet. The components don't get nearly as hot. I run 2600/3340/2300 during gaming and encoding. Heat could have been an issue, but I've been running SMC since the week I bought the new iMac, so it's possible I haven't fried my components like some people might have by running stock fan speeds.

And maybe this explains why I can go 6 hours on end gaming without an issue, 10 hours of video encoding without an issue and so on for the last 2 months.

By jove, the lad might have something here, anybody else try using SMC?