French Court Levies Fine Against Apple for Abusive App Store Practices

[Sophisticatednut]

The good outweighs the bad as unchecked sideloading can have disastrous lawful consequences. Pick your poison.

Considering iOS can be run exactly like Mac. Well it also depends what you mean “good”

Is it security in a free society? Freedom in an authoritarian society?
Side loading won’t be unchecked. Apps still can’t do anything special without administrator privileges on your phone.

We are requesting that those who want a device that suits your purposes, buy android. If a device doesn't meet your requirements don't buy it.

Well what do you do when no device suits your needs 100%? Don’t buy a phone? Don’t buy anything?

What do I buy if I want privacy and use a VPN, download telegram, signal? Buy nothing? Not be allowed to communicate in a secure way?

Buy an android phone with google spyware?

 

[I7guy]

Considering iOS can be run exactly like Mac. Well it also depends what you mean “good”

It can't be run as a Mac, or if it can, then I'd like to see it.

Is it security in a free society? Freedom in an authoritarian society?

Seems like that's the only drum that's playing lately.

Side loading won’t be unchecked. Apps still can’t do anything special without administrator privileges on your phone.

Maybe, maybe not.

Well what do you do when no device suits your needs 100%? Don’t buy a phone? Don’t buy anything?

Buy something that does. The way it's been talked about is sideloading is THE functionality.

What do I buy if I want privacy and use a VPN, download telegram, signal? Buy nothing? Not be allowed to communicate in a secure way?

Buy an android phone with google spyware?

I can't help you with your priorities.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

It can't be run as a Mac, or if it can, then I'd like to see it.

What is preventing it from running exactly like a Mac? Do you have any things you think stops it?

Seems like that's the only drum that's playing lately.

Well also freedom of consumer choice, but that point we will never agree on as I think the choice of a close platform is still present while you don’t.

Maybe, maybe not.

Well it’s not jailbreaking, so some functions are still locked behind privileges. So essentially it will just be using available APIs that already are exposed to developers.

Buy something that does. The way it's been talked about is sideloading is THE functionality.

Well that’s ludicrous. Nothing ever fits 100%.

Side loading is just another functionality people wish they had to tick that “perfect device”

And android phone might only fulfill 20%, but and iPhone fits 80%, and with Side loading it goes up to 85-90%

Now I just need the ability to share my AirTags so I don’t get the stalker notifications when I borrow my wife’s carkeys.

I can't help you with your priorities.

Well it’s not my priority as I live in a free country. But I’m glad I used my influence to make EU do something

 

[I7guy]

What is preventing it from running exactly like a Mac? Do you have any things you think stops it?

The software.

Well also freedom of consumer choice, but that point we will never agree on as I think the choice of a close platform is still present while you don’t.

Freedom of consumer choice is to buy the product you want.

Well it’s not jailbreaking, so some functions are still locked behind privileges. So essentially it will just be using available APIs that already are exposed to developers.

Well no.

Well that’s ludicrous. Nothing ever fits 100%.

That is the most often talked about functionality by a minority of people.

Side loading is just another functionality people wish they had to tick that “perfect device”

If Apple wanted sideloading (in terms of load any app that can run ios without any security on the phone) to exist, it would have been part of ios 2.

And android phone might only fulfill 20%, but and iPhone fits 80%, and with Side loading it goes up to 85-90%

It's better to make android go from 80 and up, then kill the ios ecosystem by introducing sideloading.

Now I just need the ability to share my AirTags so I don’t get the stalker notifications when I borrow my wife’s carkeys.

Well it’s not my priority as I live in a free country. But I’m glad I used my influence to make EU do something

Great, watch your back on taxes and stuff.

 

[Samplasion]

Well no.

That is not a debatable point lmao, that's the state of code execution on iOS. Basically picture an App Store app that you downloaded directly from your favorite developer instead.

That is the most often talked about functionality by a minority of people.

If that isn't an indicator of popular demand, I don't know what is. (And before you reply "but it's a minority!!", what do you think the threshold should be? 30%? 35%? Another arbitrary value such as 46.8%? Or does it depend on the suggestion itself?)

If Apple wanted sideloading [...] to exist, it would have been part of ios 2.

If Apple wanted an app drawer to exist, it would have been part of iOS 2. Oh wait...

sideloading (in terms of load any app that can run ios without any security on the phone)

That's not sideloading, though. You just gave a new meaning to a word which already had a different meaning. What you're saying is totally different from sideloading; in fact, the security measures keeping iOS secure are part of the OS itself: if that weren't the case, jailbreaking iOS wouldn't be as hard as it is.

kill the ios ecosystem by introducing sideloading

Oh sweet drama.

Great, watch your back on taxes and stuff.

😂

 

[I7guy]

That is not a debatable point lmao, that's the state of code execution on iOS. Basically picture an App Store app that you downloaded directly from your favorite developer instead.


If that isn't an indicator of popular demand, I don't know what is. (And before you reply "but it's a minority!!", what do you think the threshold should be? 30%? 35%? Another arbitrary value such as 46.8%? Or does it depend on the suggestion itself?)


If Apple wanted an app drawer to exist, it would have been part of iOS 2. Oh wait...


That's not sideloading, though. You just gave a new meaning to a word which already had a different meaning. What you're saying is totally different from sideloading; in fact, the security measures keeping iOS secure are part of the OS itself: if that weren't the case, jailbreaking iOS wouldn't be as hard as it is.


Oh sweet drama.


😂

There is a saying: "east is east and west is west...etc." Don't think our twain will every meet.

 

[Contact_Feanor]

The same sort of thing can be said about most products that have large market share. Consumers and/or retailers and vendors "voted with their wallets." That doesn’t mean they should be allowed to potentially abuse their monopoly power (e.g., Google/Android and Apple/iOS have nearly 100% share of mobile OS market). By restricting competitive app stores and sideloading, some believe Apple is abusing its monopoly power in mobile OS.

Again, the market share of apple in Europe is tiny. What monopoly power do they have over here?

 

[I7guy]

Again, the market share of apple in Europe is tiny. What monopoly power do they have over here?

The anti-trust crowd will point out that apple is part of a duopoly of cell phone manufacturers (because consumers have voted with their $$$ over the years and ignoring Linux and other variants ) and apple that can cause people, consumers, devs harm with their total control of the platform.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

The good outweighs the bad as unchecked sideloading can have disastrous lawful consequences. Pick your poison.

We are requesting that those who want a device that suits your purposes, buy android. If a device doesn't meet your requirements don't buy it.

Oooooh scare bleu !!

 

[Contact_Feanor]

The anti-trust crowd will point out that apple is part of a duopoly of cell phone manufacturers (because consumers have voted with their $$$ over the years and ignoring Linux and other variants ) and apple that can cause people, consumers, devs harm with their total control of the platform.

so the anti-trust crowd wants to destroy one of the main differentiators between the small platform and the big platform, so that only one monopolist remains in a couple of years?

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

so the anti-trust crowd wants to destroy one of the main differentiators between the small platform and the big platform, so that only one monopolist remains in a couple of years?

Because Apple/iOS will cease to exist if sideloading is allowed ?

This thread has all got a bit dramatic, when do we think we will see the first person killed by sideloading?

 

[I7guy]

so the anti-trust crowd wants to destroy one of the main differentiators between the small platform and the big platform, so that only one monopolist remains in a couple of years?

Yes. One legal monopolist. (as opposed to an illegal monopolist)

 

[Sophisticatednut]

The software.

Well it does it right now when you have enterprise certificate and cydia inpactor to add your certificate on any app outside the AppStore you want to install.

Isn’t the only difference between Mac and iOS is the fact Mac have options?

Well no.

No? In what way isn’t it so? A new springboard can’t be installed without root privileges(aka jailbreaking). And APIs are just a way to communicate with the software interface.

Security features are not removed

That is the most often talked about functionality by a minority of people.

Could be a vast majority as well.

If Apple wanted sideloading (in terms of load any app that can run ios without any security on the phone) to exist, it would have been part of ios 2.

Well I agree, lucky for us that’s not what’s asked or implemented. You will run any app you want with all security on the phone still active.

It's better to make android go from 80 and up, then kill the ios ecosystem by introducing sideloading.

Sure, but android is at 20% “good” and iOS is at 80% “good” and closer to perfect.

It’s much easier to improve iOS

Great, watch your back on taxes and stuff.

Will do.

Again, the market share of apple in Europe is tiny. What monopoly power do they have over here?

Yet again. In Europe it’s 100% legal to be a monopoly. What’s illegal is to abuse your market position and cause harm to competitors. And the fact is apple is competing with developers on multiple fronts.

so the anti-trust crowd wants to destroy one of the main differentiators between the small platform and the big platform, so that only one monopolist remains in a couple of years?

I’m sorry but apple isn’t a small platform.
And the Apple ecosystem contains a lot of differentiators, side loading is barely a footnote.

 

[Contact_Feanor]

Yes. One legal monopolist. (as opposed to an illegal monopolist)

They're changing the law, Apple isn't being forced by courts but by lawmakers. Their so-called monopoly was never illegal to begin with. They're rewriting the laws to make it illegal.

 

[webkit]

Again, the market share of apple in Europe is tiny. What monopoly power do they have over here?

Different countries, regions and courts can assess and define "monopoly" or antitrust regulations differently. This action is specifically taking place in France where, according to Statcounter, Android currently has around 60% share of the mobile OS market and iOS has around 39% share. Two products/platforms dominating a market, as in the case here, may be viewed as having monopoly power.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

They're changing the law, Apple isn't being forced by courts but by lawmakers. Their so-called monopoly was never illegal to begin with. They're rewriting the laws to make it illegal.

That’s how it works. Lawmakers makes laws. And courts enforce those laws.

They are judged with current laws in France, and monopoly has nothing to do with their illegal acts considered anti competitive.

And EU is makings new laws to define gatekeepers according to a new legal framework. All supported by current laws.

 

[BaldiMac]

And I’m confident you don’t know what an API even is.

You certainly have a track record of being confident about things that you are wrong about.

They aren’t copyright protected. And similar to a dictionary in their function.

While it true they aren't subject to copyright, that has nothing to do with the discussion. The copyright issue that you appear to be referencing has to do with replicating APIs on other platforms, not accessing private APIs.

And a developer can just make their own API when insufficient documentation exists.

A developer can make all the APIs that they want within their own apps. That has nothing to do with their ability to access private APIs.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

You certainly have a track record of being confident about things that you are wrong about.

Yes as I have legal track record in that support what I’m saying

While it true they aren't subject to copyright, that has nothing to do with the discussion. The copyright issue that you appear to be referencing has to do with replicating APIs on other platforms, not accessing private APIs.

That’s the thing, if APIs aren’t copyright protected, then this means they can be used or replicated by anyone. With the only exception if you have agreed in a contract not to use them.

APIs are legally open source that can have publicly available descriptions or not.

A developer can make all the APIs that they want within their own apps. That has nothing to do with their ability to access private APIs.

API stands for Application Programming Interface. In the context of APIs, the word Application refers to any software with a distinct function. Interface can be thought of as a contract of service between two applications. This contract defines how the two communicate with each other using requests and responses.

Essentially developers are accessing private functions by using ether existing APIs or they reverse engineer them to do the same function.

APIs being private have no functional meaning outside of contractual obligations.

 

[BaldiMac]

Yes as I have legal track record in that support what I’m saying

Yes. You consistently cite cases that don't apply to the topic being discussed.

That’s the thing, if APIs aren’t copyright protected, then this means they can be used or replicated by anyone. With the only exception if you have agreed in a contract not to use them.

APIs are legally open source that can have publicly available descriptions or not.

API stands for Application Programming Interface. In the context of APIs, the word Application refers to any software with a distinct function. Interface can be thought of as a contract of service between two applications. This contract defines how the two communicate with each other using requests and responses.View attachment 2139706

Essentially developers are accessing private functions by using ether existing APIs or they reverse engineer them to do the same function.

APIs being private have no functional meaning outside of contractual obligations.

Here's another example of the same thing. A whole bunch of obvious facts and confused claims ("legally open source"???) that don't refute a single thing that I said.