French Regulators Set to Levy Fine Against Apple for Anticompetitive Behavior

[macfacts]

It's the "who want iOS" part though. iOS, and Apple hardware, and Apple's App Store are a package deal. If you choose an electric car, you can't go into a gas station and sue them for not putting more "go" in your car. And you can't go into McDonalds and order but then insist, "no, I want the fries to be from Burger King". They're not available separately, and it would be unreasonable to compel the companies involved to cater to your desires simply because you want it. Somebody wanting something does not automatically lead to companies being required to provide that to them.

So the consumers who want iOS do have two choices: they can choose to get an iPhone/iPad with the OS they desire, and accept the ecosystem that comes with it, or they can choose to forego iOS and get an Android device because although they want iOS, they more highly desire the "increased freedom" of the Android ecosystem. It's their choice. And "iOS but with a different app store" is not one of the available choices. Just because they can't have the thing they most want doesn't mean they don't have choices, only that they aren't satisfied with the choices that are available. They could always start their own smartphone company and have everything exactly the way they want.

I'd like to have an electric car that you don't have to plug in for numerous hours, but can instead recharge instantly at a wide variety of locations. Who do I sue or fine about getting that right now? Because I really want it, so I ought to be allowed to have it.

Tesla doesn't force you to charge the car from Tesla branded stores/chargers. Not even the same thing.

 

[leonmckee]

It's about time we leave these EU folks to their own devices. They'll all have the same charger and nothing else. USexit I say. See where that gets them!

Leon McKee

Apple Customer Since 1979

 

[farewelwilliams]

Consumers who want iOS don't have two choices.

Consumers who want Nintendo don't have two choices either.

Last I checked, Android apps don't work on iOS devices so it's not an alternative. Yes, I am aware of checkra1n exploit demo'd by Corellium, but there's nothing practical about that.

Last I checked, Xbox games don't work on Playstation. Is Playstation an alternative to Xbox? I think so.

 

[justperry]

Sounds like all they want to do is balance their budgets of American companies.

What a load of C...
Companies have to follow the rules/laws, if they don't they get fined.

 

[fairuz]

Consumers who want iOS don't have two choices.

Go to Android then. It has more marketshare. We use iOS because we don't want these detailed choices, we want stuff to work.

 

[justperry]

It's about time we leave these EU folks to their own devices. They'll all have the same charger and nothing else. USexit I say. See where that gets them!

Leon McKee

Apple Customer Since 1979

And even more European hatred....

 

[fairuz]

And even more European hatred....

Europe sucks, that's why
Edit: With respect to the issue at hand, not in general.

 

[ani4ani]

Consumers who want Nintendo don't have two choices either.


Last I checked, Xbox games don't work on Playstation. Is Playstation an alternative to Xbox? I think so.

You don't understand the point; you can buy Xbox games from dozens of vendors and developers. It’s not about cross compatibility but the ability to have fair competition. Some argue since ios apps can come from one source and one source only that is not competitive, e.g. the French government

 

[fairuz]

You don't understand the point; you can buy Xbox games from dozens of vendors and developers. It’s not about cross compatibility but the ability to have fair competition. Some argue since ios apps can come from one source and one source only that is not competitive, e.g. the French government

They have to be licensed by Microsoft no matter what.

 

[justperry]

Europe sucks, that's why

Not going into politics so I leave it there...

 

[farewelwilliams]

You don't understand the point; you can buy Xbox games from dozens of vendors and developers. It’s not about cross compatibility but the ability to have fair competition. Some argue since ios apps can come from one source and one source only that is not competitive, e.g. the French government

1. Developers cannot sell their own Xbox game from their own store. They can sell keys, but eventually it'll need to be redeemed on Xbox's store which applies the same guidelines as a regular game sold on the store.
2. Selling a game via vendor (I'm assuming you mean something like Best Buy) must go through Microsoft's approval anyways. Apple can do the same, but no one would bother buying a boxed version of apps, so there's no point.

You're failing to understand how a Playstation/Xbox game is sold via third party vendors. Sony and Microsoft make money even if the game is sold via a third party vendor. Publishers will always make less money when a game is sold through a retail store because the retail store takes a cut of the sales.

 

[leonmckee]

And even more European hatred....

Not really! I've lived in France, Germany and England. Went to school in Germany and England. I have a love for Europe to be perfectly honest. The EU and business is another subject. When it comes to business all I see is control issues and socialism. Try running a foreign owned business in France for example. OMG. Apple is a saint, as are all North American companies, for putting up with the onslaught of negative attention they receive from the EU.

Leon McKee

 

[Juicy Box]

I am unsure about French law, but I really have trouble understand what Apple is doing wrong.

What happens to the fine money? Does it go back to the consumers? Most likely the government.

Will it be a one time fee? Or yearly? Maybe Apple should pull out of that market.

USexit I say

First thing I saw was U Sex it.

 

[fairuz]

1. Developers cannot sell their own Xbox game from their own store. They can sell keys, but eventually it'll need to be redeemed on Xbox's store which applies the same guidelines as a regular game sold on the store.
2. Selling a game via vendor (I'm assuming you mean something like Best Buy) must go through Microsoft's approval anyways. Apple can do the same, but no one would bother buying a boxed version of apps, so there's no point.

You're failing to understand how a Playstation/Xbox game is sold via third party vendors. Sony and Microsoft make money even if the game is sold via a third party vendor. Publishers will always make less money when a game is sold through a retail store because the retail store takes a cut of the sales.

It's not just the money but also the control. Microsoft has standards, as they ought to. If you want freedom from that, play PC games. If you want stuff to just work, the Xbox is a nice system. I'm glad we have the choice.
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It's about time we leave these EU folks to their own devices. They'll all have the same charger and nothing else. USexit I say. See where that gets them!

Leon McKee

Apple Customer Since 1979

I agree. If European regulators know what's best, why is all their technology from the US and China? And how come Daimler and BMW couldn't come up with an electric car until Tesla did it?

You know what, also withdraw the massively expensive defense (basically against Russia) we provide them. It's time they defended themselves.

 

[leonmckee]

EU competition law gives them all the power to define or redefine anything and everything how they see fit. The end game is how something affects society in their eyes. They get to define that!

EDIT: Meaning the fines could come and go with no defined ending.

Leon McKee

 

[farewelwilliams]

It's not just the money but also the control. Microsoft has standards, as they ought to. If you want freedom, play PC games. If you want stuff to just work, the Xbox is a nice system. I'm glad we have the choice.

Yeah. Was explaining to ani4ani how having "vendors" selling the game isn't really being "competitive" against Microsoft since Microsoft makes money either way. Control is a big part of it too.

 

[Macula]

Sorry, cowboys. On this side of the globe there’s no far west.

 

[fairuz]

Sorry, cowboys. On this side of the globe there’s no far west.

The Wikipedia page on that phrase is funny.

• American frontier, or Far West, Old West, or Wild West
• Far West (Taixi), a term used in East Asia that refers to Western Europe

 

[69Mustang]

It's the "who want iOS" part though. iOS, and Apple hardware, and Apple's App Store are a package deal. If you choose an electric car, you can't go into a gas station and sue them for not putting more "go" in your car. And you can't go into McDonalds and order but then insist, "no, I want the fries to be from Burger King". They're not available separately, and it would be unreasonable to compel the companies involved to cater to your desires simply because you want it. Somebody wanting something does not automatically lead to companies being required to provide that to them.

So the consumers who want iOS do have two choices: they can choose to get an iPhone/iPad with the OS they desire, and accept the ecosystem that comes with it, or they can choose to forego iOS and get an Android device because although they want iOS, they more highly desire the "increased freedom" of the Android ecosystem. It's their choice. And "iOS but with a different app store" is not one of the available choices. Just because they can't have the thing they most want doesn't mean they don't have choices, only that they aren't satisfied with the choices that are available. They could always start their own smartphone company and have everything exactly the way they want.

This is not a cogent argument. It's just a long-winded way of saying you think Android is an alternative for someone who wants iOS. It's not imo. It also doesn't seem to be an alternative in the eyes of adjudicating authorities. The analogy doesn't work either. It's not someone going to McDonalds and requesting a Whopper with their fries instead of a Big Mac. ← that analogy is akin to asking for Android apps in your iOS app store, which isn't apropos here.

I'd like to have an electric car that you don't have to plug in for numerous hours, but can instead recharge instantly at a wide variety of locations. Who do I sue or fine about getting that right now? Because I really want it, so I ought to be allowed to have it.

I can't respond to unrealistic hyperbole. This literally makes no sense, especially as an example relating to this topic.

 

[ani4ani]

Yeah. Was explaining to ani4ani how having "vendors" selling the game isn't really being "competitive" against Microsoft since Microsoft makes money either way. Control is a big part of it too.

I didn’t choose Microsoft or Sony for my point, the previous poster did. I didn't say it was competitive against Microsoft either. My point stands as a consumer I can buy my games from numerous places and it matters not that Microsoft takes a licence fee. As long as that fee doesn’t set a fixed price and vendors can sell at any price they choose, then there is competition. The App Store has the same “licence fee” (Apple cut) and one price and I can only acquire it from that one place.

 

[69Mustang]

1. Developers cannot sell their own Xbox game from their own store. They can sell keys, but eventually it'll need to be redeemed on Xbox's store which applies the same guidelines as a regular game sold on the store.
2. Selling a game via vendor (I'm assuming you mean something like Best Buy) must go through Microsoft's approval anyways. Apple can do the same, but no one would bother buying a boxed version of apps, so there's no point.

You're failing to understand how a Playstation/Xbox game is sold via third party vendors. Sony and Microsoft make money even if the game is sold via a third party vendor. Publishers will always make less money when a game is sold through a retail store because the retail store takes a cut of the sales.

All of this is focused incorrectly... and it's mostly wrong. Developers can and do sell XBox, PS, and Nintendo games on their own storefronts. Take Square Enix for example: https://store.na.square-enix-games.com/en_US/hub/games Heck they even sell Mac OS games on their storefront. Whether it's a disc purchased from Walmart or a digital download coming from EA, the point is the MS store isn't the only place to get the software. The PS store isn't the only place to get software and neither is Nintendo's store. The App Store is the only place to get iOS software. That's why trying to compare it to XBox, PS, or Nintendo doesn't work.

What you're trying to claim: the software only works on it's own system, yeah that is true, but also irrelevant. No one is saying they want Apple's software to work on other devices or that they want other software to work on Apple devices.

 

[california_kid]

So nobody is curious to know where all the money from the fines go? I'm sure it's not to the consumers who were impacted by the alleged anticompetitive behavior.

 

[69Mustang]

Go to Android then. It has more marketshare. We use iOS because we don't want these detailed choices, we want stuff to work.

What the heck are you talking about?
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So nobody is curious to know where all the money from the fines go? I'm sure it's not to the consumers who were impacted by the alleged anticompetitive behavior.

Nobody's really curious because we all know it almost always stays with the agency levying the fine. Rarely does the fine payout to consumers. This is nothing new or surprising. Should it be different? Yeah. But it ain't. Afaik, it never really has been.

 

[I7guy]

Tesla doesn't force you to charge the car from Tesla branded stores/chargers. Not even the same thing.

But if one wants a supercharger (as opposed to plain old 220), who are they going to go to, besides Tesla? So yeah, it is the same thing.
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All of this is focused incorrectly... and it's mostly wrong. Developers can and do sell XBox, PS, and Nintendo games on their own storefronts. Take Square Enix for example: https://store.na.square-enix-games.com/en_US/hub/games Heck they even sell Mac OS games on their storefront. Whether it's a disc purchased from Walmart or a digital download coming from EA, the point is the MS store isn't the only place to get the software. The PS store isn't the only place to get software and neither is Nintendo's store. The App Store is the only place to get iOS software. That's why trying to compare it to XBox, PS, or Nintendo doesn't work.

What you're trying to claim: the software only works on it's own system, yeah that is true, but also irrelevant. No one is saying they want Apple's software to work on other devices or that they want other software to work on Apple devices.

While we may have our opinions of this, I believe there is still a SCOTUS has to rule on, which will determine if what apple is doing is illegal. My opinion, your opinion is irrelevant. SCOTUS opinion will be relevant.

 

[69Mustang]

While we may have our opinions of this, I believe there is still a SCOTUS has to rule on, which will determine if what apple is doing is illegal. My opinion, your opinion is irrelevant. SCOTUS opinion will be relevant.

Did you comment on the wrong quote? The SCOTUS has no jurisdiction in France.