Frustrated Apple Fan...

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by scottrichardson, Jul 14, 2007.

  1. scottrichardson macrumors 6502

    Jul 10, 2007
    Ulladulla, NSW Australia
    Hi all.

    Before I begin, let me express that I am a life-long apple user, mac fanboy, and evangelist. I couldn't count how many people I have made switch to macs, but rest assured I have made Apple computer well over a quarter of a million dollars in business because of the advice I have given people, and the endless rants about how great Mac computers are..

    So it comes with some disappointment and frustration that I have to write about my current experiences with the newer Macbooks and Macbook pros, and with Apple in general.

    I convinced my (now) Wife's two sisters to purchase white Macbooks (core duos). I purchased a recent white macbook (core 2 duo) for my Wife. And just last week I grabbed a new Santa Rosa based Macbook Pro 15".

    All four have problems. One of my wife's sisters macbooks won't boot up. Appears the logic board is dead from my guess. Makes a short sound as if loading a CD, but no chime, and no success at reviving it using the suggested methods by apple on the phone, or on their support web site - things I know how do to anyway. The Mac died right after she downloaded the firmware update and had it reboot. It never survived the reboot. It's out of warranty. Should we be paying for it, considering, in all likelihood, it was the update that killed it?

    My wife's other Macbook won't work unless plugged in. the battery, all of a sudden just stopped working. We took it into a store. they said to call apple. I called Apple for her. They said to take it into a store. What's with that? Giving me the run around? Poor form Apple.

    My wife's Macbook drops wireless connection about a dozen times a day, and requires a reboot. Usually upon rebooting, within minutes, she gets a Kernel Panic and has to reboot again. It's only a month old.

    Now, it appears my MacBook Pro, brand new, is behaving the exact same way. It's dropping network connections multiple times a day, and already, three times in the hour, I have had kernel panics. And these panics were at completely benign moments.. such as when the computer was just sitting there while I was reading text on a web page. I wasn't interacting with anything.

    Now, I have read people are suffering from issues similar to mine with the 10.4.10 update. Apple suggests reinstalling the OS when I call them on the phone. But what if I wasn't tech savvy? Let's say I was a regular Jo who didn't dare tool around with installing an OS and backing up data etc etc. What would I do? Take it to a store? Have them do it? Take time out of my day because Apple's software update caused my machine to have constant breakdowns??

    Personally, I don't have the time to deal with all these issues. Now I have to take my wife's two sister's macbooks in to our local store.. which, is about half an hour away in a car. I'm thinking of taking up my wife's macbook and my macbook pro too... and dumping all four machines on their desk....

    So, in a nutshell, I'm completely frustrated and a little bemused by the reliability of these new machines and of the services from apple of late. The prices have been dropping steadily on these machines, but are those price cuts coming at the sake of reliability, that we once had with the more expensive components?

    I won't go buying a windows machine, instead, I have to put up with this new lower standard of quality, which kinda saddens me a little.

    Is anyone else having the sort of poor reliability I'm having. Am I just unlucky to have 4 out of 4 new computers having issues, some critical? Should I expect to live with this type of reliability?

    Any food for thought would be appreciated.


  2. devilot Moderator emeritus


    May 1, 2005
    In this particular instance, it would really help to have the name of the AppleCare person you spoke with (over the phone) as well as the case number. Bring those in to the store with you. That way it's for sure noted that you've already brought this issue up and the recommendation was to bring it in. I've read about others on MR who've had MB/ MBP battery issues and just walked in and out w/ brand new batteries. Here's hoping this is the case for you.

    Not a solution by any chance, but you're not alone.

    It's not a pretty solution, no... but the last time I checked, Microsoft doesn't offer a counter where you can bring in your Windows box to have real face-to-face interaction with a trained employee to help diagnose issues. And yes, my housemate had an issue w/ Windows-- I am not tech-savvy nor am I familiar w/ Windows, that CSR just talked me through the steps over the phone. I imagine AppleCare could do the same.

    And no one blames you for feeling frustrated. Unfortunately, this just seems to be the way things are and honestly? I don't see how Microsoft or other hardware manufacturers do much worse than Apple (my ex had an issue w/ a brand new HP laptop, he spent over one hour on hold and that CSR was of no help whatsoever, no help, period. And he did NOT have the option to bring it in to be checked out by an employee in person).

    You're heading into a store. Hopefully they can figure out what's going on, and come to a reasonable solution for you. And BTW? Count yourself lucky. ;) Some folks are quite a bit ways further than 30 mins to their "local" Apple store.
  3. masse macrumors 6502a


    May 4, 2007
    I don't usually post with nothing to say but man...I really wish I could help.

    Stories like these scare me.
  4. thefreakid macrumors member

    Jul 11, 2007
    i was in a apple store today checking out the new macbook pro's, im getting one this coming week from my job since i get whole sale pricing, but its stuff liek this that scares me from getting a mac. I never used a mac but i hope my experience with one wont be like this. I feel bad for ya man but look at it this way, windows does not offer great tech support, u have to call india if u want help from them
  5. ktbubster macrumors 6502a


    Jan 20, 2007
    LOL and that's AFTER waiting on hold for an hour. My bf had his power adapter die on him for his dell after about a year (as well as about 3 or 4 other things eventually including the logic board and harddrive) but he called and it literally took 1.5 hours and 4 transfers before they agreed to ship him out a new adapter on HIS penny for shipping even though it was supposedly still covered. Not that this is any excuse for apple's behavior in this case, but still, I guess it could be worse.

    As for havig this scare you from buyin a mac. Like SO many people have said... forums are where people come for help more then not. Plenty of people have nothing but good things happenin with their macs (me included :) ) this is more like the 1-5% of people who do have problems :)

    To the OP. I am sorry :( this is sad. Hopefully the drive to the apple store will warrent good news. Lookin forward to an update post after that trip. I would DEF bring in all your computers. That would send a message and .. why not? may as well have them with you at the time if you want to ask them anythin instead of maybe having to bring them back.

    with the macbook that was out of warranty... you might still be able to get something done about it if it is close to the warranty period and you ask them, that sort of failure is really really uncalled for... and with a slew of 4 bad apples (har har har pardon the pun folks) they might help you.

    best of luck!
  6. CalBoy macrumors 604


    May 21, 2007
    At times it seems like Apple does a terrible job, and at other times, Apple seems to do a great job. As a long time Apple customer, you should have a better sense of Apple customer service. Seeing as how this series of bad customer relations has happened to you, all I can say is, I extend my sympathy. However, on that note, I do have to try to be objective:

    1. Your sisters-in-law did not purchase the Applecare, and that's a risk they did take. While it' rare for hardware to have major problems, it does happen once in a while. This really isn't Apple's fault, as they have a standard 1 year warranty.

    2. Have you noticed your mbp losing connections in areas outside your home? Sometimes you have a bad router. Though I assume you've checked this, so maybe your mbp has a bad airport or there is some other source of interference in your home.

    3. Your wife's macbook should have been dealt with right away. Write a letter to Apple customer service. That's no way to treat any customer.

    Again, sorry for what's happened. Don't try Windows. It's not worth it. Trust me. I've been there:p
  7. Anthony8720 macrumors regular

    Dec 4, 2005
    I think apple does have very real quality control problems. However, I have a C2D 2.16 MBP, and it has been amazing. Yeah, few quirks here and there, but awesome noentheless. If i were you, I would do what you said, take them all in at once, and go through all your problems with them. You may just have a bum airport in your macbook pro. Logic boards are replaced quite easily. The heat sink could also be an issue, they were redesigned on the new macbooks because they caused shutdowns on the CD ones. Apple should take care of those things quite easily. Make sure you make an appointment, and maybe call them to let them know the scope of what you are doing, I'm sure they aren't used to diagnosing 4 computers at once. Im sure they will take care of you, they have always been good to me.
  8. chex macrumors regular

    May 17, 2007
    you people talking about microsoft/windows do know that they don't make computers right?

    and windows is software, not a company.
  9. Kaiser Phoenix macrumors 6502

    May 12, 2005
    Im afraid youre wrong there. Although this happened in Japan, when my Sony Vaios logic board got fried, I called Sony support, and they sent a truck to pick it up from my house on the same day and 2 working days later, returned the laptop with a new logic board.

    I know that in Japan, the standards are extremely high and people cant expect this in other countries but while Apple does have decent service, their customer service people always surprise me how little they know...

    I really feel for the OPs 4 machines. I think definately that quality is slipping and as volume increases, there will be more slippages, just like Toyota, once known for robust reliability now being number one, has loads of defects, due to lack of skilled engineers etc etc.
  10. Lone Deranger macrumors 68000

    Lone Deranger

    Apr 23, 2006
    Tokyo, Japan
    Hi Scott,

    sorry to hear about all your problems. I don't think you're the only one. It feels like Apple is going to some growing pains as of late. :(
    Getting good service at the Apple stores and/or over the phone can be rather hit or miss according to what I read over on the forums.

    Have you considered mailing your experiences to someone higher up at Apple. I've read posts of dissatisfied long time Apple users, very much like yourself, e-mailing their misfortunes to Steve Jobs' mail address and receiving very good service after that.

    Might be worth a try?
  11. Sounds Good macrumors 68000

    Jul 8, 2007
    Me too. Big time.

    I'm a lifelong PC user, and I'm just about to buy a Mac for the first time ever. Stories like this make me nervous -- especially when I haven't had any problems with my PCs (or Windows XP) in years.

    After telling all my friends and family how great a Mac "sounds", I can't imagine what they'd say if I bought one and it had problems. :confused:
  12. XheartcoreboyX macrumors 6502a


    Jul 3, 2007
    LOL i have the EXACT same thought!!
    im talking about macs and the features of them and how they are better than afraid that if i get one in couple days and it has all the stupid would be real SHAME! XD
  13. Lone Deranger macrumors 68000

    Lone Deranger

    Apr 23, 2006
    Tokyo, Japan
    What you have to keep in mind though is that people post to these forums when they've got problems in an attempt to get the problems sorted. Filling up the forums with 90% negative sounding reports.
    I'm sure in reality though the picture is a lot more positive with the vast majority being satisfied with their Apple hardware.

    I've seen you post very many questions over the past few days XheartcoreboyX in an attempt to dissuade your doubts about the MBP's. I think you should just take the leap and go for it. If you don't like the water, you can always get an exchange or even a refund.

  14. Sounds Good macrumors 68000

    Jul 8, 2007
    This is true, but this poor guy had 4 separate problems with 4 separate Macs.

    Or drown! :p
  15. Lone Deranger macrumors 68000

    Lone Deranger

    Apr 23, 2006
    Tokyo, Japan
    If getting a MBP refund means sticking with PC/Windows, then yes... sure your analogy would hold. :D

  16. XheartcoreboyX macrumors 6502a


    Jul 3, 2007
    oh man XD,,well yup i know i been posting alot-really-of questions and opening threads...but the reason is that i live in the middle east..and macs arent common in here in anyway..therse only like 3 or 4 stores selling them..and none of my friends have the only place to know about macs for me is these awesome forums..but in anyway im getting my mbp in 3 or 4 days-they are out of stock getting a mac even i know i will face some problems,but i think macs will be very much more popular in the near future..and thers much programmes that solves every little problem macs 'bugs' or lets call them 'differences' including Arabic language support..

    so GO mac! >_<
  17. xpovos macrumors 6502a


    Jun 7, 2007
    Absolutely. "Look, I bought four of these things in just over a year or so and every single one of them has a demonstrable, easily reproduced problem." You will get top-notch service---or if you don't, you know Steve's e-mail address and should not hesitate to use it. Nor should you hesitate to let the folks at Apple know that you're willing to use it, if it comes to that.

    Besides, your problems are real problems, not like many of the posts you find on Apple-related forums. "My screen's contrast falls of at 179.2 degrees off center when held upside-down on the gray boot screen only, which takes 2.3 seconds longer than it used to before the system finishes its boot sequence---and this renders the machine entirely unusable for underwater deep-sea work of any serious nature. I want a refund."
  18. Sounds Good macrumors 68000

    Jul 8, 2007
    I don't know... it really should be readable at 180 degrees. Even upside down.

    Oh, underwater? In that case, 179.2 degrees is perfectly acceptable. No refund for you!

  19. PDE macrumors 68020

    Nov 16, 2005
    I am also an apple veteran and have owned macs for 14 years and used them for longer. Over the past year and a half, I've had countless problems with macbooks and macbook pros. There is no doubt in my mind that Apple has a major quality control problem right now and that the quality of current Apple computers is significantly lower overall than before. There are really only two options for me: live with it and try to accept paying more for less, or switch to the PC side and learn to live with windows. I can't deal with windows so I'm living with Apple. Before I went on vacation I returned my defect MBP for a refund since Apple didn't have any MBPs in stock to replace it with. Now, two weeks later, they're still out of stock and I'm actually relieved because I'm hoping they're dealing with some of the issues with the displays, though that is probably wishful thinking.

    I used to love getting a new mac. Now I hate it because I know that there will most likely be a problem with it.
  20. Sounds Good macrumors 68000

    Jul 8, 2007
    Wow... after years of thinking about it, I'm finally ready to move over to a Mac... and now they're having problems?

    Figures. :(
  21. XheartcoreboyX macrumors 6502a


    Jul 3, 2007
    Why dont you just smile,go to the store,get your MAC,go home and see if it has problems replace it, if not then enjoy it!
    that what i will be doing..i cant stand my stupid ugly pc anymore..
  22. klaxamazoo macrumors 6502

    Sep 8, 2006
    I have had a lot of problems with my Apple products over the last year. So far I have had 4 products with bad LCD screens (ACD, iPod, MBP CD1, MBP CD2, and my sisters MBP, CD1). When I got my MBP CD1 screen fixed it came back with new problems, I got it repaired again and it came back with new problems, then again and again. I finally demanded a replacement and they sent me the wrong machine. Now my replacement MBP's screen is going bad. If it doesn't get fixed correctly I'm just going to demand my money back and use my old PC. I don't need to deal with these hassles, it was less trouble to re-install windows every 6 months than to send a computer in for repair every 3 months.

    Apple has serious quality control problems. I don't know who they hired or fired, but the person(s) in charge of Manufacturing Engineering need to take some responsibility and some courses in 6 Sigma Manufacturing. I estimate that Apple is running around 3 sigma (3 defects/1000) which is atrocious. While it is extremely difficult to mass manufacture something as complicated as a laptop with no defects, it isn't difficult to set up the proper testing as components come in and as they get assembled to insure that defective units do not ship to customers. There is no excuse for this many failures for a company with Apple's resources.
  23. PDE macrumors 68020

    Nov 16, 2005
    I would give it a try too and see. Obviously not everybody has problems and there is a chance that you'll be fine. Also, if you are not comparing it to older macs, then maybe you won't even notice the problems....

    Using and dealing with windows is more frustrating that dealing with the smaller defects and issues of hardware in the current least that's how I feel.
  24. Sounds Good macrumors 68000

    Jul 8, 2007
    I can't. I need to wait and see if a smaller Macbook Pro is coming out. That's what I'd really like (mostly due to the Macbooks being so heavy and only coming with Glossy screens).

    If I knew they were NOT coming out soon I'd buy something now. Unfortunately there's no way to know... so I gotta wait and see. :(

    To be honest, I don't have any problems with Windows XP. Really. I'm only switching because I've heard so many good things about Mac OS from so many ex-PC users that I figure "Why not give it a try"... but the current problems do concern me a bit.
  25. icecone macrumors regular

    Jun 8, 2007
    SAME here
    I really hate windows
    but i'm not sure how much mac os x is better. Seems that there are always kernal panics and other bugs
    and the macbooks themselves
    1/3 defect rate for macbook and 1/2 defect rate for macbook pro
    no idea why apple can't increase their qc:(
    can we make a petition or anything to force apple do better?

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