FTC Looking Into Impact of Apple's Sales Agreement With Amazon on Independent Resellers

[Glockworkorange]

No one is asking for that.

When someone says they are in favor of right to repair laws, they arent saying they want to force apple to design their products to be easier to fix. It means they want to be able to buy the same parts and training manuals apple sells to authorized repair partners and for the warranty to not be void just because you repaired your own property.

You are asking for the government to be able to force Apple to sell products and services to companies and channel partners they don't want to do business with.
[doublepost=1564887430][/doublepost]

No one is asking for that.

When someone says they are in favor of right to repair laws, they arent saying they want to force apple to design their products to be easier to fix. It means they want to be able to buy the same parts and training manuals apple sells to authorized repair partners and for the warranty to not be void just because you repaired your own property.

And by the way---I think he was saying Apple shouldn't make it easier for you to have things fixed the way you want them fixed and by who you want to fix them.

The title of the "movement," if it can be called that, is intentionally misleading. You already have the right to get your products repaired; you are just limited as to WHO can repair them.

 

[mrochester]

No one is asking for that.

When someone says they are in favor of right to repair laws, they arent saying they want to force apple to design their products to be easier to fix. It means they want to be able to buy the same parts and training manuals apple sells to authorized repair partners and for the warranty to not be void just because you repaired your own property.

It seems really bizarre that ‘right to repair’ means I could potentially buy spare parts from Apple, try the repair myself, break my phone in the process AND then be able to get Apple to replace/fix the phone I broke under warranty.

That just doesn’t sound like it’s going to wash.

 

[macfacts]

You are asking for the government to be able to force Apple to sell products and services to companies and channel partners they don't want to do business with.

It isn't forcing apple to do anything. It is preventing apple from discriminating. Apple already sells manuals and parts, just not to everyone.

 

[mrochester]

It isn't forcing apple to do anything. It is preventing apple from discriminating. Apple already sells manuals and parts, just not to everyone.

Won’t that mean that parts and manuals will fall into the hands of people who don’t know what they are doing?

 

[nexusrule]

So many problems with iPhones, there's at least $2.5 million worth of iPhones returned every 3 months.

Su much ignorance and inability to understand what they read from today’s people.

 

[cube]

Won’t that mean that parts and manuals will fall into the hands of people who don’t know what they are doing?

Do you prefer that they watch a youtube video, get a part from ebay, and then sell the device?

 

[1146331]

The price of pushing the counterfeiters out.

When Amazon was full of them, pushing the "legit" small business resellers out, people wanted Apple to do something.

What were they supposed to do? Hand-vetting every single Amazon listing?

"You're legit, you're legit, you're legit and you're legit. You are not. Out."

People can still sell through their individual websites. They just can't sell through Amazon.

I assume, any brick-n-mortar mall in the US probably has similar rules and you can't sue yourself into a mall, can you?

You can't honestly believe that, can you?

I've bought several refurbished Apple products on Amazon and NEVER ONCE HAD A COUNTERFEIT ITEM.

This is part of Apple's continuous anti-competitive practices to push people out of the market. They're trying to stop people from getting their devices repaired and they're trying to stop people from selling "refurbished" products.

Louis Rossman is right about everything he says about Apple. Apple hates its customers and will find a way to screw them out of as much money as possible in every aspect of the business, whether it's getting a device repaired by a 3rd party because Apple fraudulently denied a warranty claim, or whether its somebody refurbishing perfectly good Macs so others can buy them.
[doublepost=1564921208][/doublepost]

It seems really bizarre that ‘right to repair’ means I could potentially buy spare parts from Apple, try the repair myself, break my phone in the process AND then be able to get Apple to replace/fix the phone I broke under warranty.

That just doesn’t sound like it’s going to wash.

That is not what right to repair is.

Right to repair is where you can obtain and repair your item yourself, or have an independent shop do it.

Nobody except you [must be an Apple defender] has mentioned warranting a device that somebody damaged through repair.

Just using common sense, it the item is under warranty, why the hell would somebody pay to have their device repaired? Like really, did you think your argument out before you posted it?

 

[mrochester]

You can't honestly believe that, can you?

I've bought several refurbished Apple products on Amazon and NEVER ONCE HAD A COUNTERFEIT ITEM.

This is part of Apple's continuous anti-competitive practices to push people out of the market. They're trying to stop people from getting their devices repaired and they're trying to stop people from selling "refurbished" products.

Louis Rossman is right about everything he says about Apple. Apple hates its customers and will find a way to screw them out of as much money as possible in every aspect of the business, whether it's getting a device repaired by a 3rd party because Apple fraudulently denied a warranty claim, or whether its somebody refurbishing perfectly good Macs so others can buy them.
[doublepost=1564921208][/doublepost]
That is not what right to repair is.

Right to repair is where you can obtain and repair your item yourself, or have an independent shop do it.

Nobody except you [must be an Apple defender] has mentioned warranting a device that somebody damaged through repair.

Just using common sense, it the item is under warranty, why the hell would somebody pay to have their device repaired? Like really, did you think your argument out before you posted it?

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the whole right to repair predicated on the idea that anyone should be able to repair their device and for this to have no impact on the warranty provided by the manufacturer?

You can already repair the device yourself or have an independent shop do it for you, you just lose your warranty with the manufacturer in the process.

 

[qtrim]

As long as third party sellers have another website to go to (there will always be another website), I don’t see how anti-trust can even brought up. Government has no place telling any retailer, whether Amazon or a locally owned store, who or what they can and cannot sell, as long as there’s an alternative place to buy an equivalent product.

Imagine you create amazing one of a kind candles and decide to open a store in your town. Other people start making a knockoffs and claiming its the same as yours. Then they expect you to sell the knockoff in your store along side the original. When you refuse, the government fines you!
[doublepost=1564925223][/doublepost]

I don't think Apple should be able to control anyone reselling used product as used but new or refurbished to me should be at Apple's discretion. It's their brand or am I missing something?

You can resell your used Apple products. Just set up a website and start selling.
[doublepost=1564925414][/doublepost]

So if I refurbish my Ford or Toyota I can't sell it unless Big Auto gives me the OK?

I can only sell my used car if I do $2.5 mil in auto sales? That's insane.

No, just park the car in your driveway and put a for sale sign on it.

 

[qtrim]

Amazon is starting, or has started charging sales tax in certain states. NJ is one of these states. BH I agree with.

No one “charges” sales tax, they “collect” it. In Florida, you actually get to keep a small percentage for your troubles.

 

[I7guy]

No one “charges” sales tax, they “collect” it. In Florida, you actually get to keep a small percentage for your troubles.

To me I’m charged sales tax, but you’re correct the seller collects it.

 

[citysnaps]

That does not grant them the right to block regular people from selling used Apple stuff.

How is Apple doing that to regular people?

 

[justperry]

What are you talking about? Apple has ALWAYS required reseller to be authorized, much like Cisco, HP, MS, and everyone else. And they keep that list tight and exclusive to those who put in the effort to properly message and focus on moving their products, with certain expectations and milestones. There's nothing "shady" about it. Some brands have no thresholds, and Apple's are a little higher but not THAT high in the grand scheme. You don't just have a magical right to say "I'm an Apple authorized partner" if you sell 1 iPad a year. That dilutes their brand.

As for the lie (and is IS a lie) in the quote in the article, the requirements to become an Apple reseller are not hard to get or hidden from the public. You only need to ask and they send them to you. Just because people are so LAZY that they don't see it posted on a website doesn't mean Apple is hiding anything. Pick up a phone or ask an Apple channel rep. It's not hard, and the requirements are standard. I know this because I worked at an AUTHORIZED Apple reseller, and saw the whole process myself.

That's not what Apple did, they changed the "rules" afterwards, that's different.

 

[cube]

How is Apple doing that to regular people?

They would have forced Amazon to ban unauthorized sellers.

 

[I7guy]

They would have forced Amazon to ban unauthorized sellers.

Apple has that type of hold on amazon? Or the universe? For regular people?

 

[The Captain]

I wouldn’t buy phones that are “seller refurbished”. It pretty much means nothing. I also discovered that some third party displays will render the proximity sensor unusable. The sensor is actually fine but either it can’t see through the glass or a little electronic chip on the screen is missing or preventing it from working.

TLDR I’ve decided to let Apple fix my screen if I ever break it. I just wish consumers could get legit parts.

Ah the aftermarket screen blocking the sensor would make sense since it will work of you put your finger firmly over it, but not your ear.

I normally wouldn't be trying to get the seller refurbished but I don't want a large phone, want a headphone jack, and frankly think phones are way too expensive for what I want them to do. So as long as Amazon is willing to full warranty these phones from these sellers I'll just roll the dice to get a SE that actually works.

 

[MRrainer]

You can't honestly believe that, can you?

I've bought several refurbished Apple products on Amazon and NEVER ONCE HAD A COUNTERFEIT ITEM.

This is part of Apple's continuous anti-competitive practices to push people out of the market. They're trying to stop people from getting their devices repaired and they're trying to stop people from selling "refurbished" products.

Louis Rossman is right about everything he says about Apple. Apple hates its customers and will find a way to screw them out of as much money as possible in every aspect of the business, whether it's getting a device repaired by a 3rd party because Apple fraudulently denied a warranty claim, or whether its somebody refurbishing perfectly good Macs so others can buy them.

The problem is, who decides what a "perfectly good refurbished Mac" is?

The only entity who could do that is Apple.

There are very large opportunities for fraud in the Apple ecosystem and it's not easy to combat that without sometimes drastic steps.
I admit I don't make my living with selling this kind of kit - but I acknowledge the challenge that Apple is facing.

It's not perfect, but given the circumstances, there's little that can be done IMO.

 

[Abazigal]

Apple has that type of hold on amazon? Or the universe? For regular people?

I have been wondering just who has more to gain from this arrangement - Apple or amazon. So far, we have amazon prime coming to the Apple TV and Apple Music being made available on echo devices. All signs point to a burgeoning partnership between the two companies. Which I guess works as the two don’t really overlap.

In this scenario, I am inclined to think that amazon gets more benefit out of this arrangement. None of this would have been possible without amazon giving the green light (it is their platform after all). In one fell swoop, they wipe out almost every instance of counterfeit Apple products on their platform, and gain legitimacy because the products are backed by Apple itself.

While we are at it, does it not seem funny that while on one hand, we rationalise the blocking of more controversial personalities like Alex Jones on platforms like YouTube and Twitter by claiming that these are private platforms and said companies are free to enforce their TOCs as they deem fit, then on the other hand complain when amazon does the same thing? Or are these two situations not equivalent?

 

[cylack]

That is my whole point. Being an "authorized reseller" is a scam in itself. What worry is there about someone counterfeiting a Macbook Pro? I bought the product, it should be my right to sell it as I see fit. Imagine if the car manufacturers were able to enact laws preventing people from reselling their used cars unless authorized to do so.

So you were not an authorized reseller then, and were not in compliance with Apple's programs. Why does Amazon owe you a spot in their store?