Fully Functional iPhone 7 Lightning EarPods Shown Off in New Video

[sidewinder3000]

You can drop quoting McIntosh etc, really not relevant to the wireless v wired debate, you are better quoting something like the sennheiser monument 2.0 wireless or B&O H8 .

when talking about wireless, get yourself a quality headset see above, as in one that can reproduce quality recordings.....and listen wired v wireless , differnce is obvious. That is sound quality

Part 2 is connection, I've tried every highend wireless headset, all have constant connection issues, some take multiple attempts, firmware updates, and drop outs due to interference .

Part 3. Battery life, and annoyance of charging

Like networking , find me a major company or any professional Setup that chooses wireless over wired? Wired is still the standard for stable secure setups for very good reason.

So yes, I have a B&O H8, and I've had enough of paring issues and drop outs , along with inferior sound quality that I can say from my experiece wireless is not worth the hassle right now, more to do with connection issues actually, that I used it wired.

If you are a fan of apple earbuds .... Well in which case be it wired or wireless , they are not going to reproduce high def audio so will sound much the same. Though enjoy connection and battery issues. The average so consumer does not want the hassle of recharging headphones every night in my opinion.

Luckily, for those consumers who don't want battery or connection issues, they can use the Lightning earbuds Apple will include with the new phone.

Moving forward, Bluetooth headsets will only get better and better. As far as the current crop, for 98% of all my personal headphone use cases, my Jaybird X2s perform fantastically. I have never had a single connection issue (they connect immediately, stay connected, and switch their connection to a different device easily and flawlessly when asked) and they sound better than any other Bluetooth buds I've tested, and most other wired buds under $100. When I really want to hunker down with a great symphony or some lossless files I have on my iPhone and I'm away from my home stereo, I bring my beloved lamb skin B&W headphones. About 2% of the time. Wireless is here. To stay. It will never sound as good as wired audio, but it will get pretty close for most people's ears.

 

[calzon65]

There have been almost a half dozen articles posted over the past few weeks that talk about the rumor of Apple removing the 3.5mm jack. If you look at those articles, the numbers of posts are astounding, more than most other articles, and the vast majority of reader responses are from people angry about the potential removal of the 3.5mm jack.

The 3.5mm jack is truly ubiquitous, virtually universal, across laptops, automobiles, desktops, music players, stereos, mobile phones, tablets, even the in-seat audio jacks on most commercial airlines. Removing this standard is a complete slap in the face to millions and millions of consumers who have spent a lot of money on high quality headphones, earbuds, speakers, etc.

We are not talking about simply upgrading from floppy disks to CDs, from CDs to USB sticks, etc. I know people love to compare removing the 3.5mm jack to eliminating the floppy or CD. We are talking about the total elimination of one of the most reliable and useful audio standards that virtually all manufactures embrace.

Apple will take this proven and reliable open standard and give us their proprietary standard, and I'm confident no other equipment manufacture will ever embrace Lightning (No I'm not talking about headset manufactures, I'm talking about other desktop, laptop, tablet, phone, automobile, and aircraft manufactures).

So Apple does not move us forward, they lock us into a standard they control/own and move us away from the mainstream into a segregated solution that is not even available on their own computer line ... which uses the 3.5mm audio jack.

I think Apple's cult like mantra of making their phones thinner and thinner will go too far with the elimination of the 3.5mm jack.

 

[32828870]

I assumed they improved them in later batches.

Mine is generally okay, but I get odd dropouts, I jsut use them wired now, they sound better.

Are you sure you can update firmware via app? Last I used it I could not
[doublepost=1470442309][/doublepost]

He he he.

Very nice. Mine are probably an earlier batch as stated. Glad you are having no issues, and good to see B&O address the BT issues.

Pretty certain.

 

[MH01]

Cool, I stand corrected. Shows the last time I used the app.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

People, please, SKIP THIS NEXT CYCLE. Just. Resist. The. Urge.

I'm going to buy three now and raffle two off for charity

Really, encouraging a boycott over a headphone jack?

 

[MH01]

You're back -- LIAR!

I'm afraid I have to side with MH01 on this. I have yet to find a pair of BT headphones/speakers that sound half as good as their wired counterparts. Perhaps the technology is not yet affordable enough, but similarly priced products are just world's apart on sound quality. You typically need to spend substantially more on BT offerings just to get comparable performance -- or at least that has been my experience.

The only benefit to BT anything, in my mind, is portability. But that alone is not sufficient to offset the multiple concessions BT requires (e.g., $$, SQ, batteries/charging, etc.).

Car audio systems really highlight some of the issues. I drive a VW Golf, and I literally can't hear passages in songs when it's connected via BT. If I connect it via the wire, BOOM, there's the missing strings.

On a separate note, am I the only person still in love with 10 year old headphones (HD650)? I'd ditch my iPhone long before I'd part with these.

Nope, I love my HD650. Awesome !

 

[32828870]

You're back -- LIAR! .

lol Shhhhhh.... don't tell anyone

 

[Mac 128]

You're awfully adamant with your stance. Could you please cite sources to back up your opinions? Again, this is akin to the lossless vs lossy compressed vs vinyl debate. Unlike myself, most don't have McIntosh amp's or Bang & Olufsen systems and even if they did there is no hard evidence to suggest that bluetooth A2DP audio is inferior on a mobile device. That comes down to the quality of the track and headset.

Exactly where is the data. Wireless networking is the de facto standard for all mobile devices. No one would ever contemplate plugging an Ethernet cable into their iPhone, with or without a dongle. Add to that, the fact there's a brand new BT 5 standard out there that no one has experienced first hand. And AirPlay is pretty darn impressive. As is Sonos wireless mesh system. There are no issues with audio quality on any of those devices. To suggest reliable wireless audio is years away from become standard is silly. It's here now, inexpensively, in regular consumer use. The ONLY potential drawback to wireless in the short term is life of battery, not quality of signal, and for many it won't even be an issue.

Its not just that but in order to benefit from external DAC you need to have a good DAC. Unfortunately good quality DAC's don't come cheap so get ready to spend some serious money. Then again if you end up braking the cable / lighting plug you will also loose that nice small micro DAC

Upgrade to BT?!? What are you talking about?!? When is lower quality called an "Upgrade". I have a idea, wait for BT 5.0 or some future version which will allow uncompressed audio delivery and then call it an upgrade.

I believe that's why Apple has not already removed the 3.5mm headphone jack, as they were an active development partner in BT 5. And now BT 5 has been announced and low and behold rumors of a headphone-jackless iPhone are circulating to be released in a month.

Many of the criticisms about removing the jack revolve around poor BT quality, without considering that Apple wouldn't pull a stunt like this without offering something at least comparable to the 3.5mm experience. With the exception of battery life, they might actually do that. And the lack of wires is a benefit to any average idiot. Will they be appropriate for everyone and every situation? No. But they will for most, and for everyone else there's Lightning.

Also, Apple spends about $18 on their entire I/O chipset package, of which the DAC is just a part. So, getting similar quality to what Apple already outputs from the iPhone is hardly going to cost "serious money".

 

[32828870]

Cool, I stand corrected. Shows the last time I used the app.

Completely agree with you on your points, bluetooth certainly isn't the end all/be all solution and not for everyone. I'm just taking issue with the majority of the complaints on this matter as 99.9% of the people generally aren't audiophiles with high end systems and won't notice a difference in sound quality. What's interesting is to keep in mind that the "sending" hardware is most important. For example, my H8's work perfectly on my iPhone 6s, my Audi RS5's B&O system via Bluetooth, and amp's, etc. However, on my nMac Pro6,1, bluetooth is atrocious. As a developer I've filed countless bugs with Apple and have been working on Bluetooth connectivity with Mac systems since 10.7. In 2012, Apple switched from separate Broadcom WiFi and BT chips to a combined BCM WiFi ac + BTLE 4.x chip. This was one of the reasons many experienced well documented wireless issues on their Mac's and why BT audio in OS X is awful (also have a pair of B&O S3's that work well most of the time but when using wifi on my Mac Pro it cuts in and out).


Interesting to note that Windows 10 in Bootcamp on the same Mac's has no issues in these matters. After a few years, Apple engineering finally admits that OS X kexts/drivers have not been properly updated to match the change in hardware from 2012. That's inexcusable, especially for a $6k+ USD system.
[doublepost=1470443593][/doublepost]

Exactly where is the data. Wireless networking is the de facto standard for all mobile devices. No one would ever contemplate plugging an Ethernet cable into their iPhone, with or without a dongle. Add to that, the fact there's a brand new BT 5 standard out there that no one has experienced first hand. And AirPlay is pretty darn impressive. As is Sonos wireless mesh system. There are no issues with audio quality on any of those devices. To suggest reliable wireless audio is years away from become standard is silly. It's here now, inexpensively, in regular consumer use. The ONLY potential drawback to wireless in the short term is life of battery, not quality of signal, and for many it won't even be an issue.

Slow your roll, man, I agree with your points. I believe you misread my comments. Go back and read through them

Start with #620, then 627, 632, 635, 638, 641, 645, 652, 656, 658, 664...

 

[nope7308]

Many of the criticisms about removing the jack revolve around poor BT quality, without considering that Apple wouldn't pull a stunt like this without offering something at least comparable to the 3.5mm experience. With the exception of battery life, they might actually do that. And the lack of wires is a benefit to any average idiot. Will they be appropriate for everyone and every situation? No. But they will for most, and for everyone else there's Lightning.

Did you see WWDC 2016? Joking aside, Apple is capable of making questionable decisions, and they have changed positions previously (think stylus). I can see them sacrificing a bit of SQ for greater portability -- the masses would probably approve of it (I wouldn't).

Even if we assume that BT5 can match wired headphones in sound quality, there's more to it than simple battery issues. What does one do with their collection of 3.5mm headphones that can no longer be used with Apple devices? What good are lightning enabled headphones if they only work with my iPhone?

I don't want to deal with the hassle of batteries. I also don't want to replace headphones I know and love. And I certainly don't want to purchase headphones that only work with one device.

I imagine Apple will also drop the 3.5mm jack from the MBP refresh -- no other choice now. Think about how many people use their laptops for music, editing, etc. Now people will have a reason to completely abandon the Apple ecosystem; this can have a very real snowball effect.

There's lots of reasons to resist this move.

 

[sidewinder3000]

You're back -- LIAR!

I'm afraid I have to side with MH01 on this. I have yet to find a pair of BT headphones/speakers that sound half as good as their wired counterparts. Perhaps the technology is not yet affordable enough, but similarly priced products are just world's apart on sound quality. You typically need to spend substantially more on BT offerings just to get comparable performance -- or at least that has been my experience.

The only benefit to BT anything, in my mind, is portability. But that alone is not sufficient to offset the multiple concessions BT requires (e.g., $$, SQ, batteries/charging, etc.).

Car audio systems really highlight some of the issues. I drive a VW Golf, and I literally can't hear passages in songs when it's connected via BT. If I connect it via the wire, BOOM, there's the missing strings.

On a separate note, am I the only person still in love with 10 year old headphones (HD650)? I'd ditch my iPhone long before I'd part with these.

New tech is always more expensive and less good. Then, it gets cheaper and better. Usually pretty quickly. And convenience always involves compromise. It's just physics. What's surprising is how often people forget this and get their undies in a bunch.

The Bluetooth in our VW sounds pretty good so maybe it's a more recent type of BT, but for most people with the stock speakers that came in their car, I think Bluetooth isn't gonna be a deal killer. Plus, an adapter is easy to swing if you prefer wired.

I love my 8 year old B&W headphones, too, though yours are nicer so I'm a bit jealous I have a pair of wireless Sennheiser HD 185s at home which illustrate the wireless compromise perfectly. I'm in a loft with neighbors, and don't wanna disturb people with surround sound form my home theater late at night. I tested 6 pairs and went with the best RF pair on the market. They don't sound nearly as good as equivalent wired phones, but they sound pretty good, and the conenveniece of listening wirelessly far outweighs my desire for perfect sound when I'm watching TV and needing to move around my place.

 

[Abazigal]

What does one do with their collection of 3.5mm headphones that can no longer be used with Apple devices? What good are lightning enabled headphones if they only work with my iPhone?

What do I do with my library of PC games when I switch to a Mac? What do I do with my 30-pin adaptors when I upgrade to iOS devices with lightning ports? What's wrong with a pair of lightning headphones if I only use them with my iPhone?

I start over. On a clean slate. And change my usage habits to fully embrace the new ecosystem that Apple has laid out for us.

Any transition always hurts, and some people will hurt more than others. But the pain shall pass. It's about whether you want to make a clean surgical cut and minimise the length of pain, and extend the suffering by slowly peeling off the bandage.

 

[MH01]

Completely agree with you on your points, bluetooth certainly isn't the end all/be all solution and not for everyone. I'm just taking issue with the majority of the complaints on this matter as 99.9% of the people generally aren't audiophiles with high end systems and won't notice a difference in sound quality. What's interesting is to keep in mind that the "sending" hardware is most important. For example, my H8's work perfectly on my iPhone 6s, my Audi RS5's B&O system via Bluetooth, and amp's, etc. However, on my nMac Pro6,1, bluetooth is atrocious. As a developer I've filed countless bugs with Apple and have been working on Bluetooth connectivity with Mac systems since 10.7. In 2012, Apple switched from separate Broadcom WiFi and BT chips to a combined BCM WiFi ac + BTLE 4.x chip. This was one of the reasons many experienced well documented wireless issues on their Mac's and why BT audio in OS X is awful (also have a pair of B&O S3's that work well most of the time but when using wifi on my Mac Pro it cuts in and out).


Interesting to note that Windows 10 in Bootcamp on the same Mac's has no issues in these matters. After a few years, Apple engineering finally admits that OS X kexts/drivers have not been properly updated to match the change in hardware from 2012. That's inexcusable, especially for a $6k+ USD system.
[doublepost=1470443593][/doublepost]

Slow your roll, man, I agree with your points. I believe you misread my comments. Go back and read through them

Start with #620, then 627, 632, 635, 638, 641, 645, 652, 656, 658, 664...

Yeah we are on the same wavelength.

When i get a chance , I'll Send in my H8s for an updated set.

Also thanks for confirming the nMP BT issues, I experience the same problems, it's awful , I've gone wired mouse and KB, I had enough.

 

[Mac 128]

Did you see WWDC 2016? Joking aside, Apple is capable of making questionable decisions, and they have changed positions previously (think stylus). I can see them sacrificing a bit of SQ for greater portability -- the masses would probably approve of it (I wouldn't).

Even if we assume that BT5 can match wired headphones in sound quality, there's more to it than simple battery issues. What does one do with their collection of 3.5mm headphones that can no longer be used with Apple devices? What good are lightning enabled headphones if they only work with my iPhone?

I don't want to deal with the hassle of batteries. I also don't want to replace headphones I know and love. And I certainly don't want to purchase headphones that only work with one device.

I imagine Apple will also drop the 3.5mm jack from the MBP refresh -- no other choice now. Think about how many people use their laptops for music, editing, etc. Now people will have a reason to completely abandon the Apple ecosystem; this can have a very real snowball effect.

There's lots of reasons to resist this move.

If I were you, I wouldn't buy a pair of hard wired Lightning headphones. Apple may give you a pair for free, but then they're "free" with the phone. You'll need an adapter to use them with anything else and that's on you. The best headphones will be wired or wireless, and platform agnostic, meaning they will work with any connection depending on what cable you insert into them. I would also expect hybrid cables that provide multiple connectors for anything you may want to connect to.

As for your collection of 3.5mm wired headphones, I'd buy some adapters for them.

Batteries are always going to be a problem, but Beats wireless headphones already let you plug in when the batteries run out. So you have the best of both worlds.

I wouldn't expect to see the headphone jack drop from any device that has room for it. The MBP is used by Android phone users, so Apple needs to make the Mac a little more platform agnostic. Same with iPads. But they will certainly add a Lightning port to make iPhone customer's lives easier. But the rMB will definitely replace it.

 

[SteveW928]

Legitimate because connector is larger to house electronics.

If that's the case, it's a recipe for disaster. Do you realize how much mechanical force that's going to create on the connector?

 

[thisisnotmyname]

You know, I actually think it could happen. I doubt Tim would be booed. It's whoever is presenting the iPhone that announces the Jack being deleted.

On second thought, I bet Apple skips over the Jack being deleted entirely and acts like it Never Happened or won't mention it. This seems to more of how they will approach this.

They won't talk about the removal of the port, they'll talk about the great audio quality of the new lightning based EarPods.

(I'm not trying to state that audio quality of new EarPods will be revolutionary, just saying the will be the message)

 

[44267547]

They won't talk about the removal of the port, they'll talk about the great audio quality of the new lightning based EarPods.

(I'm not trying to state that audio quality of new EarPods will be revolutionary, just saying the will be the message)

And they will talk of how quality the dual speakers are with stereo sound.

 

[Norbs12]

I'm sorry, there really are no practical benefits to this. The negatives outweigh any by a ton.

- Unless you have the ears of a cat, no one is going to notice a difference in playback quality. Oh, and to get lossless, you'll have to be listening to a lossless file - not going to happen with Spotify or most music apps. Useless "benefit". And true audiophiles won't choose Apple's earbuds to listen to their music over other high end headphones.

- That white bulky lightning connection is unsightly and much more fragile.

So disappointed in this decision.

See but the worse part of all of this... removing the 3.5mm jack does nothing. You can already use lightning headphones on existing iphones.

You really just reiterated the entire 'end of the optical drive' argument. In classic form.

Yes, yes, I'm sure THIS time its different. Just like last time.

...and you'll be a great new consumer for beats headphones. Enjoy. =]

 

[keithtae]

Samsung (and shortsighted consumers) will will mock Apple for the next year, then remove the audio jack in their 2017 model or 2018 model. Guaranteed. Just like they mocked Apple for not having a removable battery, then removed the removable battery. They're a tasteless, gutless behemoth.

If you want to abandon the best designed, smartest, most innovative phone and ecosystem on the planet for a "me too" product that will pretend to have fidelity for legacy technology until it's unfashionable (and then drop it like it's hot) then by all means, get going.

Just like how apple mocks Samsung for having a big screen smart phone and a pen......cil..... lol

 

[sidewinder3000]

That was many of the 20% you quoted.

Also you need to break out the wired from wireless users from your remaining 80%, cause your will find the vast majority of users are wired.

Your average consumer uses the accessory that comes with the Product, BT biggest issue is cost, vast majority of users will not upgrade to BT due to the high cost over the wired set they got "free" when they buy a smartphone .

I'm not tracking your first point, "That was many of the 20% you quoted." Please explain.

I don't need to break anything out. Of course more people currently use the wired headphones that came with their phone. I've said as much multiple times in this forum so we agree. My point was that the new Lightning ear buds and lack of a 3.5mm jack won't effect the vast majority of people in any way (80%) and most of the rest will experience only a mild hassle.

 

[Personalcomputer]

Apple would do well to stop including headphones at all. I can't remember the last time I used earbuds as they are an inferior product

 

[sidewinder3000]

So which one should be the standard, with lightning, or USB type C ?

The standard for Apple will likely remain Lightning, and everyone else will use USB-c, just like Apple currently uses different sync and charging cables for iOS devices. It won't be much more of an issue than it is now.

 

[Virinprew]

The fan? Weak sauce. Removable RAM? Most low profile devices no longer offer user removable RAM. It's physics. Removing the floppy disk, DVD drive, and 30 pin connector are much more legitimate, accurate parallels.

Ok fine. We'll see how well people take this pill then.

 

[sidewinder3000]

Just like how apple mocks Samsung for having a big screen smart phone and a pen......cil..... lol

No. That's baseless. Name a single ad or press release by Apple where they mock Samsung for anything. Oh wait, you can't! It simply doesn't exist. Samsung uses snottiness and mockery as a primary marketing strategy. Much of their advertising essentially acknowledges that Apple is their superior and they are trying to compare themselves favorably with the best. Cowardly, me too marketing.

 

[maxsix]

Wow!

They seem just like the old ear pods....but with a lightning cable

Yes Indeed.

Apple continues to obsess on making products as cheaply as possible, avoiding R&D costs, and recycling old or similar designs. This ensures bragging rights about how much profit the company makes. Apple Devotees love to brag about Apple's profits just as though it was their own. An interesting phenomenon unique to those emotionally attached to the Cupertino Co.