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Fully SIM Unlocked iPhones
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This is not 4 years ago. 4 years ago in the phone business is forever. I talk 3000 minutes a month and have 3 phones(family) and My bill is only $110 a month. Every single one of my friends(except one idiot), family and people I call have verizon phones. There is zero charge for any calls. My one idiot friend with a sprint phone is the only non verizon customer I know. I don't call him anymore. I told him I would give him a free phone instead of getting sprint(which would save me money). He didn't and nobody calls him anymore.
No. Thats a false analogy or a wrong comparison there my friend. Its sort of like buying a TV that has the best picture from Best Buy or Circuit City, but you can only watch channels from the Newscorp Group. That is your TV can only get Fox News, Fox Sports, Fox Movies and Fox Entertainment. Now, someone figured out how they can legally get this TV to tune to other channels that are out there.
I can see people unlocking their iPhone at the end of the 2-yr contract. Warranties won't matter much anyway after a year because everyone who loves smart phones will probably have something better in a couple of years.
This isn't going to be the last smart phone people buy and most people who get smart phones, usually change them out between 2-3 years.
No, no, no, no, no. I am not!
a) Your research skills are lacking
b) Yes - phones in the UK are all 'free' above £35 ($70) a month (typical) plans, except for maybe brand new ones, but that changes after a month.
c) Please realise that the UK is very, very different when it comes to mobile phone useage.
Education: It's Vodafone. How long did you spend on their site to not even notice that?
There isn't one. This is my whole point. Things are going to be very interesting if we get 'unlimited data' here in the UK, because all other companies will have to follow suit. Immediately. If O2 give free data at £35 per month, so will Vodafone, Tmobile and Orange. People want the internet. They want youtube, google... facebook (maybe MacRumors?
)This is how the iPhone can change mobiles in England - through data. The handset itself is nice, but I really can't see the majority of people going into a store and paying £300 for a phone, then £35 a month on top of it, when a phone with a 5MP camera, GPS and many other features is free on equal or cheaper price plans...
In essence, if you're in the USA, you can't really join in this debate as well informed as someone that actually lives here can. The UK is in saturation. Everyone has a phone. The networks are offering amazing deals and phones for free that they don't advertise on the net just to keep you on their network.
If someone (me) wants to leave Vodafone for O2, I guarantee you, that I quote Vodafone O2s deal, and they will beat it. They might not send me an iPhone, but they would send me the top of the range handset (N95 etc) for free, and a bluetooth headset or something.
For example, 8 months ago, my contract with Vodafone was up. I then joined up with 3. £15 a month, for life. Great deal. I told vodafone I was leaving - they sent me a W880i and bluetooth headset for free (the week the phone came out RRP £300+) and beat the deal that 3 offered...
Main thing to note here: the iPhone will not be sold as if the UK was America. Something different is needed or it will suffer greatly.
All of the Plan-Models are the same. Europe and the US. The iPhone won't be sold for £100 even for the 8gb, and the 4GB won't be free.
Phones are free in the US as they are in the rest of the world. You pay for the phone anyways, just in terms of a higher monthly rate. (in the European case) in the US the plans suck anyways and who gets ripped off doesn't really matter.
But the Apple will always charge money for the iPhone. Expect £449 and £549
Whoops, that was kind of a big "except" you slipped in there... hoping no one would notice it? We are talking about the iPhone here, right? Which is a new phone, right? So you're saying that the iPhone may just not be free? That's kinda like what I am saying...
You know when the iPhone came out in the US people were saying things just like that - oh the RAZR is the most popular phone ever and even IT only had a 6 month exclusive to Cingular, how is the iPhone going to have a 2 year exclusive. It's OK, time will tell, but after seeing how Apple has arranged deals unlike any in the past here in the US, I'm surprised to hear how certain you are that it will be the status quo in your much more advanced and savvy part of the globe.
Geesh, you guys are tough. Is it because it's almost 3 AM or later, on a work night, where you are?
Do me a favor, lighten up. And then try typing Vodaphone uk into google and let me know what comes up.
So, I'm REALLY sorry for not STARING at the URL of the page while I was looking around on the site at data plans. Sheesh! I'm SO SORRY for not knowing the correct spelling of a company that does not operate in the USA and spells its name in a way that goes counter to dictionary English. What came over me?
So I can't weigh in on using the iPhone in Europe because I don't live there. Guess what? 90% of all phones in the USA are free too! Woohoo! Can you believe "backwards America" actually can understand how to subsidize a phone plan just like jolly old England?
Everyone here has a phone too. Nobody made the iPhone their first phone ever. And guess what? If you want to get a better deal on service in the US you know what you do? You call up your provider and threaten to leave and guess what they do? The same thing as they do in the UK. So now can I have an opinion? Sheesh!
In essence, if you're not in the USA, you can't really join the debate on the iPhone because it hasn't appeared there yet. Here in the USA we've already had these debates 2 months ago and we already know who ended up right and who ended up wrong. The market for phones and PDA/phones above $500 is tiny and dominated by Blackberry and to a far lesser extent Palm. And there's no way consumers (as opposed to business users) are going to pay that kind of money and commit to that kind of plan for a first attempt phone.
Whoops.
See how that argument cuts both ways?
We both have our own prospective on the world. To actually think to yourself, and much worse to put it in writing, that you think someone from the USA has nothing to offer about the iPhone's chances in Europe is kind of crazy, don't you think? The success of a product depends on two things - the product, and the market. Well, here we have touched and used the product for two months. And you folks have intimate, intense, deep and profound knowledge of the market for fones in your area. So if you would stop yelling about how no one from the USA could possibly have anything to offer, you might actually learn something. We're not ALL ignorant dolts, you know.
We'll just have to see, won't we? If Apple was going to sell it in Europe the same way all phones are sold to Europe, then what's the delay, and why worry about having an exclusive carrier?
Guys.. why are we discussing if its legal or not? The people who unlocks the phone will do either one of two things:
1) supply the code for free.. So no one will be able to know them anything but only by a nick.. They'll be secret-heros and they'll enjoy being that.
2) They will open a firm in ZlaZla Islands where there is no DMCA, or MPAA, or XQWZ so they wont be able to be sued.
I know that Apple earns money from the people talking with AT&T using iPhones, but I still dont understand why they would care to stop people unlocking iPhone. The found method will just help Apple to sell more iPhones, nothing else...
You're right, it doesn't matter whether it's legal or not, because if it works it will be used.
The reason why Apple would care though, is because every unlocked iPhone earns them $200+ less money. Wouldn't you care if you had a product and a loyalty coupon for $200 off for only your best 1% of customers, and someone photocopied that coupon and then EVERYONE used it? $200 per phone is a lot of money!
And the only people Apple can blame for that would be Apple themselves. They should have used a technology like CDMA to keep that from happening, if they were so concerned about it (which I doubt they are). There is no such thing as an unlocked phone on Verizon, Sprint, or Alltel network, as the ESN's can be blacklisted much much faster then the IMEI's can.
The argument about carriers changing plans to beat the competition is odd. I have only heard about Sprint doing that. Other carriers just say see ya (especially AT&T from what I hear). Do the other carriers have a section like Sprints Retention?
Of course I still think Apple should have became a MVNO, but I may be the only one that feels that way.
What are you talking about? CDMA sucks! Try to take it anywhere else in the world and see if you can get on a network... good luck!
I'd have to agree with diamond.g on the point about carriers over here not giving a s--- about someone threatening to leave. By and large, they don't really care, both in my experience and that of the majority of people I've happened to have this particular off-beat discussion with. And of the lot, AT&T is probably the worst. It's like the old SNL comedy sketch tag: "We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company."
Totally different subject, but I've actually used AT&T, Sprint and Sprint PCS to demonstrate in arguments the value of competition. AT&T, frankly, has got more money than God. They're the ones who ultimately hold most of the comm lines on this planet. They're the ones who hold the under-sea cable that connects all the ground-based telecom networks on all of the continents. They're the ones who hold many -- if not most -- of the telcom-related satellites in orbit above our heads. They're the ones who used to hold ALL OF IT before the 1980s de-reg. If there was any company on the face of the whole entire Earth with more power than Microsoft (although it could be argued that it's considerably further "behind the scenes" than Microsoft), it's AT&T.
That's why they don't care, and probably never will care. They're in a socio-economic strata that practically nobody can relate to. Did any of you ever stop to wonder why many cell carriers are willing to provide free mobile-to-mobile-of-same-carrier minutes, but NEVER mobile-to-landline?
Anyhow, back on topic. There are a NUMBER of things which the present telecom industry does different in Europe than they do here in the U.S., and cell phones are clearly no exception to this. Who -- to use a silly example -- had "free inbound" minutes first; Europe or America? The only reason we're seeing it here at all is someone wanted to see how well it would play over here. Not all carriers offer it here. It's mandated by law over there (IIRC).
Cal6n is correct that things in Europe are not quite as they are here, but I would respectfully point out that much of that is either part of cultural bias or regulatory action on the part of the various European governments, or on the part of the European Union itself in more recent times.
Totally different subject, but I've actually used AT&T, Sprint and Sprint PCS to demonstrate in arguments the value of competition. AT&T, frankly, has got more money than God. They're the ones who ultimately hold most of the comm lines on this planet. They're the ones who hold the under-sea cable that connects all the ground-based telecom networks on all of the continents. They're the ones who hold many -- if not most -- of the telcom-related satellites in orbit above our heads. They're the ones who used to hold ALL OF IT before the 1980s de-reg. If there was any company on the face of the whole entire Earth with more power than Microsoft (although it could be argued that it's considerably further "behind the scenes" than Microsoft), it's AT&T.
That's why they don't care, and probably never will care. They're in a socio-economic strata that practically nobody can relate to. Did any of you ever stop to wonder why many cell carriers are willing to provide free mobile-to-mobile-of-same-carrier minutes, but NEVER mobile-to-landline?
Anyhow, back on topic. There are a NUMBER of things which the present telecom industry does different in Europe than they do here in the U.S., and cell phones are clearly no exception to this. Who -- to use a silly example -- had "free inbound" minutes first; Europe or America? The only reason we're seeing it here at all is someone wanted to see how well it would play over here. Not all carriers offer it here. It's mandated by law over there (IIRC).
Cal6n is correct that things in Europe are not quite as they are here, but I would respectfully point out that much of that is either part of cultural bias or regulatory action on the part of the various European governments, or on the part of the European Union itself in more recent times.
Come on CDMA is not even a serious option. It's a non standard. Nobody, nobody in the world uses CDMA. Only a couple of US companies that would not survive two months in Asia, Europe, South America, or even Africa.
Although I agree that CDMA is a rather arcane and expensive way to do mobile telephony, saying that no one uses it is complete bull. Heck, some technologically-advanced countries like Japan don't even have GSM.
Entertaining though this is
I'm afraid the iPhone will not be free in the UK no matter what the plan. Oh and before you ask, I'm from the UK and fully understand the mobile market - probably better than most here.
Some of koobcamuk's points are right - but the iPhone will be the first phone that steps outside of the current subsidy model market we have over here. Yes - this is a gamble for O2 and Apple - but I think the brand strength (from Apple's side!) and the Unlimited data packages will be enough to make this a success.
So I'll play referee and blow the final whistle and call the score cameronjpu 1 : koobcamuk 0
There isn't one. This is my whole point. Things are going to be very interesting if we get 'unlimited data' here in the UK, because all other companies will have to follow suit. Immediately. If O2 give free data at £35 per month, so will Vodafone, Tmobile and Orange. People want the internet. They want youtube, google... facebook (maybe MacRumors?
This is exactly why Apple/O2 will be successful by charging £250 for the 8G iPhone and £35 a month for the plan with unlimited data. Yes they could have said ok we'll do the iPhone for free but charge £45 a month for 2 years and recouped the same money but a) Apple didnt want that and b) the phone networks want to break the subsidy model but havent seen a way yet - the iPhone could be that way
Will be interesting none the less. I dont think the iPhone can not be a success, but thats my opinion. I'll buy one - in fact I already have a US one so unless its identical i'll get a euro one when they launch.
Japan is far past GSM - FOMA and W-CDMA or UTMS are just leaps and bounds ahead. Nowhere in Europe uses CDMA, SIM cards are the norm. Japan is a different ball park altogether. I have a Japanese phone... you tell me how many of the super advanced Japanese phones are in America? Zero. None.
My Sharp 903SH was released in Europe by Vodafone and it's a Japanese handset. It's two years old and has 2x optical zoom and a 3.2 MP camera on it. It's 3G. It has a 2 inch screen. It's 2 years old. 2 years. Japan these days is so far ahead we can't even compare.
I really like the subsidy model. I pay £15 per month now and I got a free phone. You're telling me it's a good thing to charge people £300 for a phone and then make them pay £35 a month for that? It is akin to why the damn stock market nearly went into recession the other week - credit.
I doubt I'll get an iPhone. Nothing to do with all this stuff - just the phone itself.
There is no free lunch. Subsidized phones are repaid monthly under contracts. Nonsubsidized phones can get better calling plans (the iPhone essentially has a subsidy on the plan side relatively speaking--equivalent to getting the phone for free, and then paying $45/mo. instead of $20/mo. for data as you do now). The iPhone will not be subsidized. Repeat, it will not be subsidized. (If your friend told you so, I suggest you not take any important advice from that friend.) Apple will not let the iPhone be subsidized upfront because it insists on maintaining brand value and various price points. Worldwide. Always has. Always will. Count on it.
Sigh, just trying to point out the inability to block IMEI's on GSM's network vs ESN on CDMA. As taken from here.
So in essence Apple would have to sue people for exporting iPhones, and sue the companies for allowing the iPhones to operate on their network without Apples consent (which should sound silly, cause it is).
I honestly don't know how much Apple is going to charge for the phone in Europe, but I do know that even there Apple stuff has carried a premium. I doubt that will change. But with this unlock it may make the negotiations that much more interesting.
No. In the US unlimited data and full access to all other iPhone goodies, present and future, is an extra $20/mo. (roughly 10 pounds). I would expect UK to be roughly the same. If you don't need or don't want all the extra features/convenience of a handheld computer, stick with your free phone.
Maybe nobody is a strong word, but I can confidently say almost nobody. And I would like to say that we have to stop thinking Japan has better consumer technology than others. When is the last time you ever got yourself a Japanese
good that is con a camera or camcorder?
More importantly... Has anyone ever seen a DECENT Japanese phone? I haven't. Would anybody but a telephone from NEC or Panasonic? Maybe, but usually only if they have been forced to by Japanese non standard CDMA providers. The same kind of business model that Steve Jobs so much admires.
The world uses Nokia (Finland), Motorola (USA), Sony Ericsson (Mostly Sweden), LG and Samsung (Korea).
I feel sorry for the Japanese phone users because they are still stuck with technologies like the IMode, which they really use by the way. Let's stop believing that the Japanese are more advanced. At least in telecommunication. And let's repeat the original point: CDMA sucks.
Other than non unlocked phones (which no one seems to have an issue with Apple being in that boat from the ranting in this thread) what is wrong with CDMA?
Im on the west coast of Florida, About 5 miles south of Tampa. We dont have Edge here and the GSM service from AT&T was horrible when I had them. I paid $600 to get out of my 2 contracts and back then (3 yrs or so) that was a lot more than I made in a week. I switched to Alltel and couldn't be any happier with my reception and customer service. The only drawback is the phone technology is behind that of the GSM phones out there. Im sure Alltel locks out some of the phones features but I'll take a phone that gets great reception in and out of buildings (which AT&T didn't) over a phone that has every feature but cant make or receive calls.
This is still true for one of my friends on AT&T. His phone doesn't work inside his house. Its his work phone and he is ok with no service inside.
So you statement that CDMA sucks is incorrect.
Chris
I understand what you are saying but how well the network is distributed has nothing to do with the kind of technology you use. Your region might have an excellent 1960s analog phone coverage and horrible GSM or UMTS, but analog phones are still going to suck in comparison to UMTS. So in your case, it would be more correct to say that: CDMA sucks and always has, but unfortunately that's the only system they offer that will cover your area, so you don't have a choice.