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if Chavez allows you...

YES YES YESSSS!!!

I m hopping literally!!!! WHEEEE

sorry if i seem stupid but , you know what the changes are that apple gets the iphone to venezuela?

So this is the only way i can actually get it!

You need to apply with CADIVI and pay all your taxes, vote for him in the next referendum...and paint it red, load it with photos of Fidel and use it only to shoot pictures of the Missions....and pray everyday for him to allow you to use an imperialist phone....
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vaporizer reviews
 
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I think that Apple new it would happen, and might take some action, just because it would look bad to current, and future partners if they didn't. But they will make more money. Anybody that didn't know this was going to happen is not too smart.
 
Data on other networks?

When they say that the data works on an unlocked (T-Mobile?) iPhone, are they saying that you can get email, google maps, internet, etc. off of T-Mobile's network? Or that it works with WiFi?

Essentially, aside from no visual voicemail, how else would the iPhone be limited if you used it with T-Mobile?

Also, has anyone here purchased and received a refurbished iPhone? Does anyone think its a bad idea to get one?

Thanks!
 
At your own peril

Go ahead and unlock your iPhone....:)

but don't blame Apple or AT&T when it stops working.:D
 
But mightn't you be a tad bit frustrated if, when you called to increase your minutes, they extended your contract without even mentioning it? Moreover, since such a thing isn't listed on any of the correspondence they send you, you may not find out about the change until more than a year later when you went to cancel the contract?

I'm sorry, but there's a simple fact here. Assuming you believe that a company that by policy extends contracts with it's customers without consent or notice is evil. AT&T is evil. T-mobile does not do this, and therefore I think them if anything, a bit less evil, possibly even a force for good.

Why does AT&T do this? I assume they have some clause in the original contract which covers contract extensions (which wouldn't hold up in court because of the difference in bargaining power between the parties and the abuse it smacks of without notifying customers of this policy). But more importantly, there is the obvious reason why they do it. Because most customer won't go through the crap they have to go through to get this contract extension later removed.

When they did it to us, I called them 5 times before they finally changed it back. Interestingly, on each call, they told me they were changing it right then, however, every time I would call back (with days in between) it would still list the extended date as the date the contract would end. This indicates to me that either AT&T really skimps on employee training, or on wages so they are unable to hire competent individuals, OR that they have a policy in place for employees to "forget" little details like actually changing the date back until the customer has called a number of times.

I read your post describing the bunk you went through in a reply to another poster a little ways down the list of comments (after I had made my inital post) and you are right, it's very sloppy customer service, especially when you eventually got things cleared up within 5 minutes. Never should have happened. With regards to extending a contract without notification in person, who knows, there may be some tidbit in their contract regarding contract extension and therefore alleviates the rep from mentioning that little fact in person - which, yeah, will erk the customer. And to be honest, I have never read, in full, either contract I signed that legally binds me to my mobile carrier's terms and I bet I'm not alone. But isn't that how the mobile carriers act, that is, make sure they gotcha for one more year or so as a dedicated, contractually locked-in customer, so they can get their monthly income from billing, as well as, make more money from any overage charges in minutes and data that may accrue?

I went to a t-mobile store to look at newer phones, long before the iPhone came out. I had finished my locked in two year agreement with them and was month to month. I knew, from rumor sites, that Apple was intent on introducing some sort of phone that I may be interested in. When I looked at the new phones, I asked the t-mobile rep if this would effect my month to month, mind you I was not upgrading my minutes or choosing a new plan or anything. YES, I was told, buy a new phone and only a phone and T-Mobile puts you under contract for that phone for a year even if using the same plan. Now had I not asked, might I have been informed before the purchase, maybe, maybe not, we'll never know. But since I asked and they informed me that buying a phone locks me into another year's agreement, I left with my old phone and waited to see what Apple delivered. I'm still with T-Mobile and still interested in purchasing an iPhone but I look upon any mobile carrier with ambivalence and what they might pull. There's always a story out there that someone has... your's with at&t, the guy who was charged $71.00 by Verizon for data usage in Canada as opposed to the actual charge of .71¢ because Verizon can't do math in calculating rates and not knowing that there is a difference in denominations of "cents" and "dollars" which was clearly published in Verizon's own manuals and pricing guides - he went through about five or six people on the phone before having to write letters to corporate and thank goodness for the bad press on the internet, and the laughing stock that Verizon was becoming, otherwise he may not have won his case, my friend who had an Altell plan some 10 years ago that was Unlimited talk for $49.00 - I guess Altell was loosing too much money on the deal because too many people were taking advantage of it or talking too much but Altell canceled her plan in the middle of the contract, to which she disgustingly said good-bye and did so without any penalty because Altell was in breach of their contract agreements, t-mobile - starts a new locked in contract if you just want to buy a newer model phone... and other stories from other carriers etc. I'm sure.

Just saying, carriers make their money by contractually locking you in as a customer and they make even more money via overages in minute and data usage and if they can extend your contract by any means, that is what they will do. All of them I bet, and maybe they will inform you in person and maybe they won't. Doesn't make it right, especially if they don't inform you and you don't ask, but I bet, as a goal, they all try to get you contractually obligated by any means. But I'm with you!, just sayin...
 
Also, has anyone here purchased and received a refurbished iPhone? Does anyone think its a bad idea to get one?

Thanks!

I was wondering the same thing... Would love to get an iPhone discounted by $100.00! That's $100.00 for me and $100.00 less for Apple.:) I love keepin my money!;) Call me Mr. Krabs, SpongeBob my boy...

A quick story though...

I bought a NEW fax for my business, which shortly developed issues that phone support could not correct. They sent another fax to me and told be to put my NEW fax in the box and ship back to them on their dime.

The fax I was sent was refurbished, then the same problem cropped up, plus the darn thing sounded as if it needed to be oiled... very loud squeaking when the paper went through... and it wasn't NEW, which is what I paid for and only had for less than two weeks.

A refurbished iPhone may go through some testing to ensure it's quality but it is still used... but you have the one year agreement, two with Apple Care, but should any problems arise that can't be fixed, your refurbished phone may be replaced by another refurbished phone or your NEW iPhone, if sent in with problems, may be switched and you may be sent a refurbished iPhone in it's place, as opposed to another new one off the shelf. I don't know... could be wrong... not knowing Apple's guidelines....

Anyone with any ideas???
 
well, no one here should get their hopes up. the hackers are delaying the release of the unlock software after a call from at&t's lawyers - another article on engadget here: http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/25/uniquephones-indefinitely-delays-release-of-iphone-sim-unlock-so/


There is more than one group.
UniquePhones got a call allegedly from a law firm representing AT&T. iPhone Sim Free (the group whose unlock program was confirmed by Engadget) has not reported contact.

In fact, if UniquePhones can't sell their program, they might just "put it out there". So for some, hope springs eternal.
 
There is more than one group.
UniquePhones got a call allegedly from a law firm representing AT&T. iPhone Sim Free (the group whose unlock program was confirmed by Engadget) has not reported contact.

In fact, if UniquePhones can't sell their program, they might just "put it out there". So for some, hope springs eternal.

Couldn't they create a new piece of software that is totally useless on a mac e.g Microsoft Messenger then sell it to people but include the iPhone unlocking software as a freebie. Honest people will pay for it (and there are many out there!).
 
Go ahead and unlock your iPhone....:)

but don't blame Apple or AT&T when it stops working.:D

Agreed....

I can see it now....the forums fill with people with unlocked iPhones (loaded with 3rd party apps) complaining about how their phones don't work.;)
 
But mightn't you be a tad bit frustrated if, when you called to increase your minutes, they extended your contract without even mentioning it? Moreover, since such a thing isn't listed on any of the correspondence they send you, you may not find out about the change until more than a year later when you went to cancel the contract?

Nope. Sorry, anytime I have called to change my plan, I was reminded that I would be starting over a new contract, and not only reminded, but I had to give them a verbal "I agree" that I was told would be recorded by them if I wanted to do so. So, I'm not sure how you can claim that you had no idea about this or that it wasn't even mentioned. Please do us all a favor and give us the unexaggerated story or none at all.
 
Nope. Sorry, anytime I have called to change my plan, I was reminded that I would be starting over a new contract, and not only reminded, but I had to give them a verbal "I agree" that I was told would be recorded by them if I wanted to do so. So, I'm not sure how you can claim that you had no idea about this or that it wasn't even mentioned. Please do us all a favor and give us the unexaggerated story or none at all.

I think it's interesting that you would assume that. I don't doubt that some reps remind people, or even that a policy change could mandate such a thing. I am a very statistically minded person and wouldn't assume that my personal experiences are much of a representative standard of anything. They only reason I believe this practice to be widespread is because I see it reported in the news. I assure you that in my case and in the case of many others, there was no mention of any contract extension. However, on that particular day for us, the rep was incompetent in a lot of other ways (it took 4 hours for her to change the number over to a new area code (different, earlier story than the one I told about the phone being invalidated), I think she was probably just really new at the job). She also ended up moving the wrong line--my wife's sister's phone--over to the new area code as well, complicating the whole matter much further. However, again, a few weeks later after several calls, I did manage to get them to restore the original contract termination date.

I can sympathize with what you're saying about exaggeration though. Especially in a forum, in ruins the credibility of a story. In this case though, I've given you only the facts. I think I've probably received worse than average service from AT&T though, and I should mention that this was on an account that was handled by their business unit which is quite separate, and most probably has very little to do with the quality of their consumer unit. I was just generalizing based on conjecture, which again is not something you should base decisions for wireless service on. It's not statistical or scientific.

The main reason I tell the horror stories (and tell them truthfully without exaggeration) is because I think if enough people do this, and enough people listen and repeat, cell companies will start to get the idea that treating customers like crap just doesn't work in the internet era, and we'll see some improvement.

One thing I think would be awesome is if there was a fee-based line you could call for superior service (I'd really like to speak to someone making like $20 an hour if at all possible, I'll pay his salary for half an hour, just get me talking with someone who can understand what I need and how to make it happen without mistakes).
 
I read your post describing the bunk you went through in a reply to another poster a little ways down the list of comments (after I had made my inital post) and you are right, it's very sloppy customer service, especially when you eventually got things cleared up within 5 minutes. Never should have happened. With regards to extending a contract without notification in person, who knows, there may be some tidbit in their contract regarding contract extension and therefore alleviates the rep from mentioning that little fact in person - which, yeah, will erk the customer. And to be honest, I have never read, in full, either contract I signed that legally binds me to my mobile carrier's terms and I bet I'm not alone. But isn't that how the mobile carriers act, that is, make sure they gotcha for one more year or so as a dedicated, contractually locked-in customer, so they can get their monthly income from billing, as well as, make more money from any overage charges in minutes and data that may accrue?

I went to a t-mobile store to look at newer phones, long before the iPhone came out. I had finished my locked in two year agreement with them and was month to month. I knew, from rumor sites, that Apple was intent on introducing some sort of phone that I may be interested in. When I looked at the new phones, I asked the t-mobile rep if this would effect my month to month, mind you I was not upgrading my minutes or choosing a new plan or anything. YES, I was told, buy a new phone and only a phone and T-Mobile puts you under contract for that phone for a year even if using the same plan. Now had I not asked, might I have been informed before the purchase, maybe, maybe not, we'll never know. But since I asked and they informed me that buying a phone locks me into another year's agreement, I left with my old phone and waited to see what Apple delivered. I'm still with T-Mobile and still interested in purchasing an iPhone but I look upon any mobile carrier with ambivalence and what they might pull. There's always a story out there that someone has... your's with at&t, the guy who was charged $71.00 by Verizon for data usage in Canada as opposed to the actual charge of .71¢ because Verizon can't do math in calculating rates and not knowing that there is a difference in denominations of "cents" and "dollars" which was clearly published in Verizon's own manuals and pricing guides - he went through about five or six people on the phone before having to write letters to corporate and thank goodness for the bad press on the internet, and the laughing stock that Verizon was becoming, otherwise he may not have won his case, my friend who had an Altell plan some 10 years ago that was Unlimited talk for $49.00 - I guess Altell was loosing too much money on the deal because too many people were taking advantage of it or talking too much but Altell canceled her plan in the middle of the contract, to which she disgustingly said good-bye and did so without any penalty because Altell was in breach of their contract agreements, t-mobile - starts a new locked in contract if you just want to buy a newer model phone... and other stories from other carriers etc. I'm sure.

Just saying, carriers make their money by contractually locking you in as a customer and they make even more money via overages in minute and data usage and if they can extend your contract by any means, that is what they will do. All of them I bet, and maybe they will inform you in person and maybe they won't. Doesn't make it right, especially if they don't inform you and you don't ask, but I bet, as a goal, they all try to get you contractually obligated by any means. But I'm with you!, just sayin...

T-mobile does not extend your contract if you buy any new phone. They extend your contract if you buy a subsidized phone. When my T-mobile phone broke (cell-phones and heavy carpentry work don't always mix well), I went to a store and bought a used one (because new unsubsidized phones were way too expensive for me at the time).

T-mobile was fully aware of my phone switch, but they had no problem with it (their website even showed a picture of the phone I switched to when I would log in, which kind of blew me away-apparently your phone identifies the model to the carrier towers). Obviously if you buy a subsidized phone, it will extend your contract, that makes perfect sense, it's the point of the subsidy.

On the other hand, there is no clear reason why switching your phone number should extend your contract at all.
 
If an iPhone update re-locked the phone, couldn't you just load the previous software version?

OR

Just don't update until it's been posted on the boards as being ok,
I'm sure iphonesimfree.com will be testing each apple update and giving the results.

It doesn't seem too risky. Just be prepared to have only the current software and apps. What if that's the only version that works with the crack =O

BTW I use T-Mobile Prepaid, i pay $100 to refill each time, which lasts me about 5 months. So... In 6 months of NOT using AT&T I would save enough to buy that iPhone... :D
 
Probably could continue to use the existing software after hack, but if for any reason needed to restore/update through iTunes, I see nothing but trouble. Even if maintain active AT&T account, Apple probably now could determine hack and warn against proceeding (hack has already breached iPhone contract) with download. Might decide to be nice and warn you against doing it again. Probably no way to load the previous software, since no reason for Apple to have it, and i doubt hackers could legally reinstall it. Among other problems, if this ever is commercially available, buyers probably would screw up their iPhones, and sue the hell out of the hackers. Everyone knew hacks were coming, but probably goin nowhere. [Also, if other carriers can detect it's an iPhone, they're asking for legal trouble if they provide service.]
 
T-mobile does not extend your contract if you buy any new phone. They extend your contract if you buy a subsidized phone. When my T-mobile phone broke (cell-phones and heavy carpentry work don't always mix well), I went to a store and bought a used one (because new unsubsidized phones were way too expensive for me at the time).

Must have been an incompetent T-Mobile Sales Rep or a very new rep or a very poorly trained rep... I know what I was told by them. Buy a new phone, retail price because it was not with a plan, and your contract is renewed.

If you are 100% accurate that, that is not the policy, doesn't negate the fact of what I was informed in the store by the T-Mobile Rep... I was there afterall...
 
Because Apple makes a cut of money from AT&T services, not just the physical iPhone.
It could also affect future exclusive deals with carriers when Apple decides to enter another market. From a carrier's point of view there is no incentive to bend to Apple's demands if people can just hack the iPhone and continue with their current provider.
 
It could also affect future exclusive deals with carriers when Apple decides to enter another market. From a carrier's point of view there is no incentive to bend to Apple's demands if people can just hack the iPhone and continue with their current provider.

Of course. That is the primary reason why Apple would want to fight this.
 
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