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Fully SIM Unlocked iPhones
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dev is right. Plus, I would think the fact Apple has a relationship with AT&T so they'll want to protect that (and I'm sure AT&T is quite interested as well).
I can't see Apple letting this one slide.
The American Orange
??? American arrogance ? The iPhone is the concept of an American company called Apple, Inc. ... why bother and get one of these "arrogant" thingies ?
??? American arrogance ? The iPhone is the concept of an American company called Apple, Inc. ... why bother and get one of these "arrogant" thingies ?
Thanks for the explanation McCoy, I can definitely understand your sentiments. The iPhone is a truly great peice of work. If it weren't for my previous experience with AT&T's horrendous customer service (and I mean bordering on things that breach their contract with me, such as providing me a new SIM card that wouldn't work with my phone, then demanding I buy a new phone, rather than reactivating my old SIM).
Here was the issue: we wanted to change our phone numbers to a local area code after a recent move. Now in my experience with T-mobile, this took about 5 minutes and no hassle (AND no contract extension). With AT&T, they said we would need new SIM cards because we were still using the old SIM's (from AT&T before they became Cingular). When we got the new cards, I called to activate mine.
After the activation call (you have to call AT&T to activate), I hung up and put the new SIM in my phone. When I turned it on, it said "Enter Subsidy Unlock Code:" and of course would do nothing else (as you know, carriers here require manufacturers to lock the phones, and apparently Cingular hadn't bothered to make their SIMS compatible with the old AT&T phones). I called back, and they said there was nothing I could do, they told me I would have to buy a new phone, they wouldn't cancel the contract without me paying termination fee, and they wanted me to extend the contract even further to get a subsidized phone. After haggling with them for more than 3 hours, they finally transferred me to someone who reactivated my old SIM in about 5 minutes.
Because of this and several other incidences demonstrating AT&T/Cingular Customer Services Reps' complete incompetence (along with their policy of extending contracts for various requests without informing the customer), I believe that AT&T is EVIL, and was saddened by Apple's deal with them. Hence, I am very happy to see people find a way to go with T-Mobile.
To all those saying Apple will lose money because of their profit sharing deal with AT&T: simply not true. Apple makes a lot more profit per iPhone sold than they do from the service kickback.
There may be several other ways in which this works out to be bad for Apple, but that ain't one of them (assuming of course that this has more of an effect on people considering new iPhones than those who are already in iPhone/AT&T contracts).
There may be several other ways in which this works out to be bad for Apple, but that ain't one of them (assuming of course that this has more of an effect on people considering new iPhones than those who are already in iPhone/AT&T contracts).
AT&T and stuff ...
Hey ... I do understand what you´re saying ... but I am sure there are a "couple" of people that can tell you similar stories in regards to other providers.
Hey ... I do understand what you´re saying ... but I am sure there are a "couple" of people that can tell you similar stories in regards to other providers.
On a second thought... Until a couple of years ago, it used to be the case that anyone who wanted to have a cell phone unlocked could go to a random electronics store in Chinatown (NY), and those lovely Asian tech wizards would do it on the spot for a few bucks.
A couple of weeks ago, however, there was not a single vendor in Chinatown willing to crack a cell phone. Most pretended to be ignorant, and only a few outrightly admitted that they are afraid of the potential legal consequences. So, something happened in the meantime -- perhaps some threatening mass mailings to Chinatown zip codes from the phone carriers' legal departments.
Long story short: It seems that there is a way, legalistic or otherwise, to discourage third-party unlocks.
A couple of weeks ago, however, there was not a single vendor in Chinatown willing to crack a cell phone. Most pretended to be ignorant, and only a few outrightly admitted that they are afraid of the potential legal consequences. So, something happened in the meantime -- perhaps some threatening mass mailings to Chinatown zip codes from the phone carriers' legal departments.
Long story short: It seems that there is a way, legalistic or otherwise, to discourage third-party unlocks.
Yes, criticism for the sake of it, is a waste of time. However, are you suggesting that those who are criticizing Apple on this forum have no basis to do so?
The riidiculous EDGE fees in outside the US are set by the local PTT, not necessarily by ATT, as are the $1.29 minute voice usage charges.
When outside the US, the most devastating feature is the inability to turn off EDGE to prevent running up an astronomical data bill. I don't mind the voice charges (well I do), but at least I can use a stop watch to control it, as with SMS (50 cents / message). I don't generally stay long enough outside of US spot to justify a SIM per country.
What I would like is a cheaper T-Mobile hotspot plan to use WIFI: on their website, it's $49/month for internet only access. If there is something that various business should just do for "free," its setting up mobile hotspots for their customers: coffee shops, airports, etc. T-Mobile has it sort of sewn up, but once someone else breaks through, how many WIFI plans do I need to have so that I can use the internet "on the go" without the slower 3G or EDGE connections?
Eddie O
How would EDGE work in other countries (do they have it set up if they're already on 3G)? Also, how would T-Mobile charge the data rates in the U.S.? Is there an unlimited plan for cheaper than AT&T? I recall most unlimited data plans were in the $40-50 range.
Woah! What a thread...
...a pleasure to read. I think the significance of this story is undeniable when you consider the responses it has received thus far.
The implications are really interesting for all those countries outside of the U.S. that are still awaiting a local iPhone launch. Here in the UK the £:$ exchange rate is weighted so heavily in our favour that this could have a real impact on U.K. sales and I imagine this is not the only country where this would be the case.
Now what would really be interesting is the AppleCare question. On allconfused Apple products the coverage is worldwide, correct? If I'm in Europe and my MacBook dies on me I can pop into an authorised Apple dealer and have them fix it under the terms of my AppleCare agreement. Is this the same with iPhone? If so, then that really opens the floodgates for iPhone imports from the US.
Someone raised the issue of the software install / alternate network thing as being a possible justification for Apple not honouring the warranty - can't remember who - but that's not the case with other Apple products, is it? If I wipe OS X off my MacBook in favour of Ubuntu (not me, although I'm sure some have), Apple wouldn't quibble about the warranty if I took it in with a valid and qualifying hardware issue. What if I had installed Linux on my 5G iPod? Would this be the same with the iPhone: I guess what I'm saying, rather long windedly, is that unless its made explicit in the terms of the warranty (which in future I suppose it could be) then there would be no warranty issues, regardless of installed software or which network you choose to be on.
Really interesting development. If this really starts to fly then I can't see how it wouldn't put downward pressure on price of UK and Euro iPhone at launch.
My tuppence worth,
Derwood
...a pleasure to read. I think the significance of this story is undeniable when you consider the responses it has received thus far.
The implications are really interesting for all those countries outside of the U.S. that are still awaiting a local iPhone launch. Here in the UK the £:$ exchange rate is weighted so heavily in our favour that this could have a real impact on U.K. sales and I imagine this is not the only country where this would be the case.
Now what would really be interesting is the AppleCare question. On all
confused Apple products the coverage is worldwide, correct? If I'm in Europe and my MacBook dies on me I can pop into an authorised Apple dealer and have them fix it under the terms of my AppleCare agreement. Is this the same with iPhone? If so, then that really opens the floodgates for iPhone imports from the US.Someone raised the issue of the software install / alternate network thing as being a possible justification for Apple not honouring the warranty - can't remember who - but that's not the case with other Apple products, is it? If I wipe OS X off my MacBook in favour of Ubuntu (not me, although I'm sure some have), Apple wouldn't quibble about the warranty if I took it in with a valid and qualifying hardware issue. What if I had installed Linux on my 5G iPod? Would this be the same with the iPhone: I guess what I'm saying, rather long windedly, is that unless its made explicit in the terms of the warranty (which in future I suppose it could be) then there would be no warranty issues, regardless of installed software or which network you choose to be on.
Really interesting development. If this really starts to fly then I can't see how it wouldn't put downward pressure on price of UK and Euro iPhone at launch.
My tuppence worth,
Derwood
anecdotal stories
There are always a ton of posts here about people's experiences with an individual carrier. It is important to keep all these stories in perspective- they're anecdotal, nothing more.
As someone else alluded to, you can find a positive or negative story about practically any carrier. There is no way to guarantee what your experience with an individual carrier will be like. Any time you deal with a large company, you are really at the mercy of whoever your call gets routed to in their call center.
This isn't to say that scientifically conducted surveys can't yield information on which carriers, on average, are better at certain things than the others. But I can assure you, which ever carrier got the iPhone deal was bound to be the recipient of a lot of forums posts saying how bad they suck.
There are always a ton of posts here about people's experiences with an individual carrier. It is important to keep all these stories in perspective- they're anecdotal, nothing more.
As someone else alluded to, you can find a positive or negative story about practically any carrier. There is no way to guarantee what your experience with an individual carrier will be like. Any time you deal with a large company, you are really at the mercy of whoever your call gets routed to in their call center.
This isn't to say that scientifically conducted surveys can't yield information on which carriers, on average, are better at certain things than the others. But I can assure you, which ever carrier got the iPhone deal was bound to be the recipient of a lot of forums posts saying how bad they suck.
Now what would really be interesting is the AppleCare question. On all
Someone raised the issue of the software install / alternate network thing as being a possible justification for Apple not honouring the warranty - can't remember who - but that's not the case with other Apple products, is it?
I bet this is a firmware hack, which would invalidate your warranty and is not comparable to installing another OS, but we would have to wait for the details of the fix to be sure and to see whether it does not fall foul of the DCMA laws in the States, despite the assurances of the hackers that what they are doing is all above board.
not so niche
my country has 10million people... right now id say there are about 200 iphones and theyre only being used as ipods.... when this gets out im seeing well over 1,000 people getting it... i know of at least 50 people waiting to get one as soon as its unblocked and there are many more waiting... i have to say that if this gets out, then its going to be big... i dont think apple/att is going to let this out....
my country has 10million people... right now id say there are about 200 iphones and theyre only being used as ipods.... when this gets out im seeing well over 1,000 people getting it... i know of at least 50 people waiting to get one as soon as its unblocked and there are many more waiting... i have to say that if this gets out, then its going to be big... i dont think apple/att is going to let this out....
It appears that even restoring/updating the iPhone's firmware still allows you to swap carriers, so it would be pretty easy for Apple to identify that the phone has been modified in a way that contravenes AppleCare. And it may be within Apple's right to just refuse to work on the phone, even if you were willing to pay for the necessary firmware repair out-of-pocket, which would mean you'd have to try and recover that from a third-party source (assuming they are getting the firmware legitimately from Apple, for if they are not, then Apple Legal will probably be all over them).
So it may be the folks who created this hack will legally be allowed to do it, but it may mean you're on your own when you do so. If you mess-up your iPhone, you may end up with having to buy a new one...
TMobile is an awful provider anyway, so this doesn't do me a lot of good. Once someone can figure out how to make it on CDMA and go on Verizon I'll be happy. In other words, it'll never happen because it's impossible.
Why is TMobile bad? My Fav 5 doesn't include mobile to mobile minutes, their coverage is awful except in large cities, and they charge for WiFi hotspots.
Why is TMobile bad? My Fav 5 doesn't include mobile to mobile minutes, their coverage is awful except in large cities, and they charge for WiFi hotspots.
Well, if it were me I'd certainly want to try and reinstall OS X before taking it back in. I've had Apple get snippy with me once because I had third party RAM installed in my MacBook. It was almost like I automatically got a lower level of service since I had "modded" my MacBook.
But, the iPhone is a bit different. Remember, you can't even use the thing at all until it is activated with AT&T. Currently it is a closed device designed to be used on a specific cellular network. I can see how, at a bare minimum, they'd give you a lot of grief.
It is like once when I took my car in (under warranty) for a loud noise near the engine. I had an aftermarket bicycle roof rack on top. They said the roof rack was causing the noise and didn't investigate further until I raised my voice substantially. Turns out I needed a whole new transmission- that was the cause of the noise.
I'm not sure if it is policy, human tendency, or what- but it seems like people are ALWAYS looking for a way out. Unfortunately, having 3rd party RAM, Linux, an alternate carrier, or a roof rack seems to give our friends in customer service enough to try and weasel out of any responsibility.
So in my original post, that was really my point. These days I'd just rather go completely stock and not introduce any room for debate, simply because I don't have the desire to deal with it or get in a heated argument if I can avoid it.
No thanks. I don't like GSM as a technology. It may be more widely used around the world, but CDMA has much better building penetration and power.
Agreed, but I'm pretty certain that the scientific studies yield results that Verizon and T-Mobile are at the top for U.S. cell company customer service ratings (I'd cite the study, but I'd have to pay to subscribe to consumer reports to confirm this easily, anyone else have the hard data?).
I just wanted to share my anecdotal evidence to give people an idea of how evil they can be, since I wouldn't have guessed it before experiencing it for myself. Also, there is a transcript from a recent piece on Red Tape Chronicles discussing how common it is for carriers to extend contracts when you call them, without your consent, EVEN WITHOUT INFORMING YOU. This has been my continued experience with AT&T, while I called T-mobile many times for similar requests (e.g. changing phone number) and had no problems with them extending my contract.
Do they use the same method as mentioned on
http://iphonejtag.blogspot.com/2007_08_01_archive.html
?
http://iphonejtag.blogspot.com/2007_08_01_archive.html
?
Penetration and power is important (laughs like Butt-head).
I was jealous, when traveling from the USA to the UK, that my pal's T-mobile phone worked across the pond.
Mainly I just wish the iPhone worked with Verizon-- because I am lazy.
I was jealous, when traveling from the USA to the UK, that my pal's T-mobile phone worked across the pond.
Mainly I just wish the iPhone worked with Verizon-- because I am lazy.