Fundametal flaw in FW less late 09 MacBook

[Langonoddy]

And the point of this post was...........

I was going to say it would be good if Apple released a version of OSX for windows machines, like a basic version called OSX starter edition. It wouldnt for example support firewire or Adobe products.

Then, maybe they could also release a Home Premium edition that came with an FBI profiling program and if the user wasnt too pathologically stuck up, it would boot.

Then they could release a OSX ultimate, and that would only run on Macs.

Oh, wait aminute, that last one has already been done. sorry Im a nube.

Anyway Ive thought better about posting this. OOps hit the wrong key.

 

[elfxmilhouse]

I was going to say it would be good if Apple released a version of OSX for windows machines, like a basic version called OSX starter edition. It wouldnt for example support firewire or Adobe products.

Then, maybe they could also release a Home Premium edition that came with an FBI profiling program and if the user wasnt too pathologically stuck up, it would boot.

Then they could release a OSX ultimate, and that would only run on Macs.

Oh, wait aminute, that last one has already been done. sorry Im a nube.

Anyway Ive thought better about posting this. OOps hit the wrong key.

hahaha

very true. anyone who makes the argument that a hackintosh gives you a good OSX experience is covering something up or hasnt used the computer long enough.

 

[l.a.rossmann]

Audio interfaces based on USB2 are terribly unstable when track counts go up.

The real ones are based on MADI like the RME expresscard that allow you to hook up your own converters. Too bad you can't do that either, since Apple removed expresscard from all but the most expensive machines.

I would never consider a firewireless and expresscardless laptop unless it were under $300

 

[XboxMySocks]

Thats kind of ironic that you went from a relatively stable platform with pre-emptive multi-tasking to a notoriously unstable platform with co-operative multi-tasking that, on most hardware at the time, couldn't even play an MP3 in the background if you were trying to browse the web at the same time.

I think I speak for everyone when I say, what the F*CK are you talking about.

 

[PracticalMac]

Late '08? Isn't this post a year late?

Firewire is a dead technology anyway. What still uses Firewire? A handful of audio interfaces? Some old video cameras?

Modern portable external storage is USB 2.0. High speed external storage is eSATA, something Apple doesn't offer. Only a handful of external HDDs are Firewire capable, and those are specifically targeted at the Mac crowd, so they generally cost more for less storage than USB or eSATA solutions.

Whats the point of Firewire? Screw Firewire. Give me eSATA and HDMI. I don't need Firewire.

Most desktop PCs and PC notebooks ship with eSATA these days, and its twice as fast as Firewire 800. So why does Apple stick with such an ancient interface that is so little supported? Why do Apple fans stick cling to the interface so much when its been eclipsed many times over?

I had two plastic MacBooks with Firewire. I only used it once. One time. and that was because the Firewire cable for the HDD was already taken out. I have the late '08 MacBook now and it's never crossed my mind that I might need Firewire. I have Firewire on my PC, and I've had Firewire on several PCs over the last decade. I've never used it once.

eSATA is somewhat inferior to FireWire.
And while one would THINK eSATA has faster throughput then FW, its the hard drive that makes the difference.

In this review of an eSATA drive, 2 FW800 drives clearly trumped (to my surprise as well)

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seagate-500-gb-external-hard-drive-esata,1307-5.html

As for HDMI, the DVI port on MBP's are 100% HDMI compatible.
http://store.apple.com/us/product/TR842LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDA3Ng&mco=MTA4NDU1Mjk

PWND!!!1!one!

The only fundamental flaw fake or real in this thread is that the OP lacks sufficient knowledge on the topic he is humiliating himself with.

Computers aren't just about hardware. If the OP ever responds and proves that he's not a troll, please name 3 notebooks on the market that are under $400 with tax and shipping with IEEE 1394 FireWire ports.

If this fundamental flaw was fundamental, Apple wouldn't be beating company records every quarter. Somehow they make more revenue each year than the previous but their products fundamentally flawed. Jonathan Ives designed it, it can't be flawed.

The egg is on your pretty Snow Leopard face, becuase I know what I am talking about.

Jonathan Ive does not chose what goes in the machine, he choses how it will look, that is what designers do. It is the famous, or infamous, marketing department, and maybe Jobs, who decides what features a product will have.
Strike 1

iPhone and iPod sales are the bulk of Apples profits, the Mac's make up a smaller share, and of those, the MacBook is a fraction of it all. Bottom line is 1 flawed product likely will not take down a company.
Strike 2

Finally, I said $499 (not the BS $400 with S&H + Tax you put up), and that is what I looked for.

This is what I found in 20 min of looking.
2 below $499 (1 admittedly a refurb), and 4 others less then $50 more.
All have the 4 pin iLink (FireWire) 1394.

Lenovo ThinkPad X60s Notebook (Refurb) $459
Lenovo IdeaPad U330 Notebook $499
Toshiba Satellite A305-S6841 Notebook $529
HP (Hewlett-Packard) Compaq 6735b Notebook $529
HP (Hewlett-Packard) Pavilion dv6z Notebook $549
Dell Vostro 1520 Notebook $549

http://computers.pricegrabber.com/laptop/firewire-80:54/p/13/#z

Since I was a little off on the price, would have let that go as foul, but when you tried to for an absurd price goal I change my mind.
Strike 3, your OUT!!!

I totally own you.
Go back to your cage, kitty.

Just to help some people here:

HAD Apple put an eSATA port in, I would have been OK, becuase it is at least much faster then USB and Giganet. The GB's of sound and movie files are too much for USB2 and Giganet for bulk transfer, AND deal with all the other functions they need to do.

 

[KnightWRX]

No, it was ok as sold. FW is not important to everyone, and lack of FW is not a flaw. If you need FW, buy a notebook with FW. Apple doesn't need to cater to your needs specifically.

 

[l.a.rossmann]

No, it was ok as sold. FW is not important to everyone, and lack of FW is not a flaw. If you need FW, buy a notebook with FW. Apple doesn't need to cater to your needs specifically.

No firewire and no expresscard slot on an expensive machine is a flaw.

 

[KnightWRX]

No firewire and no expresscard slot on an expensive machine is a flaw.

You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means.

I use neither, never have, and it's not a Macbook with them that would have changed that. As priced, the Macbook was perfect for me. It is thus not flawed. That it didn't meet everyone's needs is true. That doesn't make it flawed.

 

[milton.sheaf]

Firewire is a dead technology anyway. What still uses Firewire? A handful of audio interfaces? Some old video cameras?

Modern portable external storage is USB 2.0.

LMAO, you should be embarrassed of such ignorance!

Modern portable external storage is most certainly NOT usb 2.0!! USB 2.0 is the absolute slowest and worst performing interface you can possibly buy. Fw400 is much faster. Fw800 is way WAY faster. And eSata is faster still. USB storage is for people who don't know any better.

Heck, get rid of that crap USB and give me some DB9 serial ports. At least those were reliable and worked well and they have more than enough bandwidth for everything that USB is any good for, namely keyboards and mice.

There's a reason Firewire is the defacto standard for Pro audio and video editing: Firewire is isochronous, plus it uses DMA transfers. Isochronous transfers are essential for any realtime editing, and they can only be achieved using DMA. PATA and SATA use DMA because it's much faster. USB on the other hand, does not. USB uses the old slow IRQ processor interrupts - just like the legacy serial and parallel ports.

I'd buy a laptop with 4 firewire ports and 0 usb ports in a heartbeat. My CF card reader, flat bed scanner, 3 external hard drives, and DVD-RW are all Firewire. My mouse is USB.

Oh and the other big benefit to firewire, particularly for mobile users? Lots of power through the port. I can take the biggest and fastest 7200 rpm hard drive and it is self-powered from the firewire port. Heck, I can run 2 or 3 hard drives, self-powered from the firewire port. With USB, you're stuck using slower drives or bulky A/C adapters. No thanks. USB is a joke.

/rant

 

[heatmiser]

The lack of FW in the late '09 was one of the deciding factors in my decision to buy a mid '09 Macbook instead.

 

[PracticalMac]

No, it was ok as sold. FW is not important to everyone, and lack of FW is not a flaw. If you need FW, buy a notebook with FW. Apple doesn't need to cater to your needs specifically.

I use neither, never have, and it's not a Macbook with them that would have changed that. As priced, the Macbook was perfect for me. It is thus not flawed. That it didn't meet everyone's needs is true. That doesn't make it flawed.

Perhaps it did not occure to you, Apple would still sell that MacBook for the SAME price WITH the FW800 installed.

Right now it has 2 USB ports, so likely it will have -1 USB for +1 FW, but same price. Of course the price of the FW parts will add a little to the total cost, but if you ever look at Apple price structure, they almost always put is at "xx99.99".

Obviously you completely missed another obvious fact.
While YOU do not need FW (that is prefectly OK by me), there will be some that DO need FW in their MacBook.

In short, by Apple NOT including FW in the MacBook, they lose customers (100% guaranteed Apple lost sales of new FW-less MB, ask any marketing professor). The question Apples has, will the customer get the more expensive, higher profit margin, MacBook Pro (maybe Apple does know this, so that is why they did, only they know.).

The Labor Statistics / Statition (SP??) would say lack of FW will cost Apple a LOT more money/expense because USB2 is 1/3~1/4 the speed of FW800, meaning the time needed to move data from a drive (service work) will take 3~4 times longer, and time=money.

And lets not forget:
FireWire/1394/iLink is an APPLE technology. Each machine/HDD/whatever that indicates the FW logo and chips = MORE money for Apple.

One could say that any Mac fan that is anti-FireWire is truly anti-Apple, anti-Mac.

No matter how you look at it, the final analysis is that it IS a fatal flaw.

 

[KnightWRX]

Obviously you completely missed another obvious fact.
While YOU do not need FW (that is prefectly OK by me), there will be some that DO need FW in their MacBook.

The Macbook not offering what you need is not a flaw with the product. Guess what, not all products will fit your needs.

You move on to a different product that does. The Macbook isn't flawed, it's just wasn't targetted at you.

No one is arguing that FW might be useful, and that some people might need it. The premise here is that lack of FW is a flaw. The reality is that it isn't.

We're in 2010 now. It has been about 14 months since that Macbook was introduced. It has been a full 6 months since it has been discontinued. Why even gripe about this ?

 

[mosx]

eSATA is somewhat inferior to FireWire.
And while one would THINK eSATA has faster throughput then FW, its the hard drive that makes the difference.

In this review of an eSATA drive, 2 FW800 drives clearly trumped (to my surprise as well)

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ta,1307-5.html

And what does that link prove? They don't give any in depth details as to how the benchmarks were performed.

As for HDMI, the DVI port on MBP's are 100% HDMI compatible.
http://store.apple.com/us/product/TR...co=MTA4NDU1Mjk

PWND!!!1!one!

First of all, no Apple notebook ships with DVI any more. Second, the DVI and DisplayPorts on Intel Macs do NOT support audio, so its not 100% HDMI compatible

I want HDMI on my Mac for the same reason I have it on my PC, one cable to my home theater system and the ability to push blu-ray audio out to my receiver. With SPDIF on the Mac I'm stuck with DVD quality audio and a mess of dongles and adapters.

Modern portable external storage is most certainly NOT usb 2.0!! USB 2.0 is the absolute slowest and worst performing interface you can possibly buy. Fw400 is much faster. Fw800 is way WAY faster. And eSata is faster still. USB storage is for people who don't know any better.

In the real world, meaning the world outside of Apple's poor USB drivers/support, USB 2.0 is every bit as fast as Firewire 400. Again, in the REAL WORLD.

There's a reason Firewire is the defacto standard for Pro audio and video editing: Firewire is isochronous, plus it uses DMA transfers. Isochronous transfers are essential for any realtime editing, and they can only be achieved using DMA. PATA and SATA use DMA because it's much faster. USB on the other hand, does not. USB uses the old slow IRQ processor interrupts - just like the legacy serial and parallel ports.

Again, in a real world situation, USB is every bit as fast as Firewire in a real world situation. Just look at recent benchmarks.

Slow speeds and high CPU utilization with USB 2 fall entirely on the shoulders of Apple. Just switch over to Windows on the same exact system and look at the difference.

I'd buy a laptop with 4 firewire ports and 0 usb ports in a heartbeat. My CF card reader, flat bed scanner, 3 external hard drives, and DVD-RW are all Firewire. My mouse is USB.

Good for you. I have NO Firewire devices. None. Not even my external blu-ray reader that OS X can't even take advantage of.

Oh and the other big benefit to firewire, particularly for mobile users? Lots of power through the port. I can take the biggest and fastest 7200 rpm hard drive and it is self-powered from the firewire port. Heck, I can run 2 or 3 hard drives, self-powered from the firewire port. With USB, you're stuck using slower drives or bulky A/C adapters. No thanks. USB is a joke.

If I'm mobile and away from a plug, I do NOT want anything draining my battery. In that case, fast and SMALL USB 2 drives are perfect.

 

[PracticalMac]

The Macbook not offering what you need is not a flaw with the product. Guess what, not all products will fit your needs.

You move on to a different product that does. The Macbook isn't flawed, it's just wasn't targetted at you.

No one is arguing that FW might be useful, and that some people might need it. The premise here is that lack of FW is a flaw. The reality is that it isn't.

We're in 2010 now. It has been about 14 months since that Macbook was introduced. It has been a full 6 months since it has been discontinued. Why even gripe about this ?

I speak of the latest white MacBook, late 2009. I flubbed the date in initial post (since fixed).

And what makes you think I was not ready to buy a MacBook?
I was budgeting to get the MacBook, until I learned it had no FireWire.
I am considering perhaps an Aspire 1 with Linux for $199. No, it does not have FireWire, but its very cheap, light, long battery, and can carry anywhere and dont care if it breaks since it will be just a portable web browser.

Then again, maybe not.

But you are deluding yourself to think I am not one who want to get a MacBook just to justify your argument.

Again, you make the wrong assumptions.

 

[KnightWRX]

I speak of the latest white MacBook, late 2009. I flubbed the date in initial post (since fixed).

And what makes you think I was not ready to buy a MacBook?
I was budgeting to get the MacBook, until I learned it had no FireWire.
I am considering perhaps an Aspire 1 with Linux for $199. No, it does not have FireWire, but its very cheap, light, long battery, and can carry anywhere and dont care if it breaks since it will be just a portable web browser.

Then again, maybe not.

But you are deluding yourself to think I am not one who want to get a MacBook just to justify your argument.

Again, you make the wrong assumptions.

I made no wong assumptions. Lack of Firewire is not a flaw. The fact you need firewire, wanted a Macbook, found out it didn't have firewire doesn't mean the product is flawed, only that it doesn't meet your needs.

You can choose any of the other FW enabled laptops out there. The only flaw here, is your use of the word flaw.

 

[PracticalMac]

And what does that link prove? They don't give any in depth details as to how the benchmarks were performed.

Um, did you bother reading the article?
The previous page gives all the details.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seagate-500-gb-external-hard-drive-esata,1307-4.html

First of all, no Apple notebook ships with DVI any more. Second, the DVI and DisplayPorts on Intel Macs do NOT support audio, so its not 100% HDMI compatible

I want HDMI on my Mac for the same reason I have it on my PC, one cable to my home theater system and the ability to push blu-ray audio out to my receiver. With SPDIF on the Mac I'm stuck with DVD quality audio and a mess of dongles and adapters.

Ahhhh, the irony of it all.

HANA Alliance is attempting to make a single-cable connection for all (repeat, ALL) multi-media devices, using FW protocol over various cabling, including co-axial cable found in many houses today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Definition_Audio-Video_Network_Alliance

Working prototypes exist.

In the real world, meaning the world outside of Apple's poor USB drivers/support, USB 2.0 is every bit as fast as Firewire 400. Again, in the REAL WORLD.
Again, in a real world situation, USB is every bit as fast as Firewire in a real world situation. Just look at recent benchmarks.
Slow speeds and high CPU utilization with USB 2 fall entirely on the shoulders of Apple. Just switch over to Windows on the same exact system and look at the difference.

I hate to burst your fantasy, but I did test it myself, and FW400 is faster then USB2 without question..

FW800 makes USB2 look like a snail.

If you tired it...
OH, WAIT, I think you do not have any FW device to test it with. Ah. So how can test it yourself?

If I'm mobile and away from a plug, I do NOT want anything draining my battery. In that case, fast and SMALL USB 2 drives are perfect.

OK, now you completely confuse me.
EVERY USB flash drive takes power. So does every USB gadget ever made that does not have a wall-wart or power cord.
In fact, there are hundreds of USB gadgets all they do is TAKE power, like a those mini-vacuums.
(In USB2, 2 pins are for power, +5v and 0v, the other 2 pins are for data)

And you that 4 pin iLink/1394 connector found on 50% of PC notebooks?
That is ONLY data. Those missing 2 pins are only for power. There is no way you can take power from an iLink equipped laptop.
(FW/1394 uses 4 wires for data, and 2 more wires for power, 6 total. Sony created iLink/1394 for size and to prevent laptops losing power to connected devices by removing the 2 power wires)


....

My God.
How much of this community is ignorant of FW?

I made no wong assumptions. Lack of Firewire is not a flaw. The fact you need firewire, wanted a Macbook, found out it didn't have firewire doesn't mean the product is flawed, only that it doesn't meet your needs.

You can choose any of the other FW enabled laptops out there. The only flaw here, is your use of the word flaw.

I misread your reference post. Yes, you did not make that assumption, apologies for that error.


Definition of "Flaw" in context to the topic:

A flaw in something such as a theory or argument is a mistake in it, which causes it to be less effective or valid.

an imperfection in a plan or theory or legal document that causes it to fail or that reduces its effectiveness

An imperfection in an item or material which may or may not be harmful. If it is harmful, it is a defect.

Main Entry: 2flaw
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, flake, from Old Norse flaga stone slab, moldarflaga thin layer of turf; akin to Old English flōh flat stone
Date: 1586

1 a : a defect in physical structure or form <a diamond with a flaw> b : an imperfection or weakness and especially one that detracts from the whole or hinders effectiveness <vanity was the flaw in his character> <a flaw in the book's plot>

Synonym: imperfection

I am not defying "flaw" in the 2009 MacBook as broken or will fail soon.
I am defying it as "inefficient, less then perfect, "an imperfection or weakness and especially one that detracts from the whole or hinders effectiveness""

 

[mosx]

Um, did you bother reading the article?
The previous page gives all the details.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ta,1307-4.html

Did you actually read what I said? I said DETAILS about the TESTS were performed, not system specs.

Ahhhh, the irony of it all.

HANA Alliance is attempting to make a single-cable connection for all (repeat, ALL) multi-media devices, using FW protocol over various cabling, including co-axial cable found in many houses today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-De...twork_Alliance

Working prototypes exist.

ooooh working prototypes. Whoop dee doo! Its using Firewire? Hmm, then it won't stand a chance against HDMI, which has a bandwidth rating of 10.2Gbps, 8.16Gbps for video.

I hate to burst your fantasy, but I did test it myself, and FW400 is faster then USB2 without question..

FW800 makes USB2 look like a snail.

If you tired it...
OH, WAIT, I think you do not have any FW device to test it with. Ah. So how can test it yourself?

As I said before, theres countless MODERN benchmarks out there that prove that USB 2.0 IN A REAL WORLD SITUATION (i.e. NON-APPLE) is just as fast as Firewire 400. Did you happen to do your own supposed test in OS X? Or did you use Windows too? Anyone with an Intel Mac can switch over to Windows (native only, no VMs) and see the great disparity in speed between USB in OS X and in Windows. Apple's USB drivers and support is literally the worst in the industry.

EVERY USB flash drive takes power. So does every USB gadget ever made that does not have a wall-wart or power cord.

Duh. USB 2.0 provides very little power. Perfect for small 2.5" portable HDDs for quick file transfers. I don't want to hook up a full sizd 3.5" drive and have it kill my battery.

And you that 4 pin iLink/1394 connector found on 50% of PC notebooks?
That is ONLY data. Those missing 2 pins are only for power. There is no way you can take power from an iLink equipped laptop.

Yes I know this. And its irrelevant, but feel free to mention it.

How much of this community is ignorant of FW?

The fact of the matter is that Firewire is a dead technology. Outside of a very small number of devices, its not used. Apple stopped using it in their devices that they once championed Firewire in. Nearly everything else has stopped using it. Even high end HD video cameras don't use it. Only a small number of audio interfaces use it and thats about it. It's a dead technology.

 

[thebeave]

I need FW 400 to download video from my Canon HV30....

 

[KnightWRX]

Synonym: imperfection

I am not defying "flaw" in the 2009 MacBook as broken or will fail soon.
I am defying it as "inefficient, less then perfect, "an imperfection or weakness and especially one that detracts from the whole or hinders effectiveness""

So everything is flawed since perfection is unattainable in this world ? The fact that it also doesn't make coffee is a flaw going by your logic.

I think your title is still the only thing wrong. The Macbook is not fundamentally flawed. It works "perfectly" for everyone who buys it knowing full well what it does.

Again, "not meeting your needs" is not some sign of weakness or imperfection or flaw, it's just "not meeting your needs". Sedans aren't flawed because you need a Minivan. Coffee makers aren't flawed because you need a blender.

 

[Eidorian]

Target Disk Mode is something that I really don't want to lose.

 

[PracticalMac]

Did you actually read what I said? I said DETAILS about the TESTS were performed, not system specs.

Performance Measurement
-c't h2benchw 3.6
-PCMark05 V1.01
System Software & Drivers
-OS Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition, Service Pack 1
-Platform Driver Intel Chipset Installation Utility 7.0.0.1025
-Graphics Driver Default Windows Graphics Driver

There is your answer.
Of course its not raw file transfers, but bench marks are usually comparable to real use results.

ooooh working prototypes. Whoop dee doo! Its using Firewire? Hmm, then it won't stand a chance against HDMI, which has a bandwidth rating of 10.2Gbps, 8.16Gbps for video.

HDMI is a point-to-point connection, and current there is no data transfer ability between computers or drives (and if MPAA has its wish never will).
FW400 is able to handle the data stream for HD content, and provide control of multiple devices over a daisy chain of cables.
Coaxial cable is also able to handle HD content, so what advantage does 10Gbit/s give when ~400Mbit/s (or Digital Co-ax) can do same?

FYI: Digital Co-ax cable:
38.4 Mbit/s, fully 1080i capable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_cable#Technical_information

As I said before, theres countless MODERN benchmarks out there that prove that USB 2.0 IN A REAL WORLD SITUATION (i.e. NON-APPLE) is just as fast as Firewire 400. Did you happen to do your own supposed test in OS X? Or did you use Windows too? Anyone with an Intel Mac can switch over to Windows (native only, no VMs) and see the great disparity in speed between USB in OS X and in Windows. Apple's USB drivers and support is literally the worst in the industry.

Ahhhhh.
I think I know what you are getting at.
Windows Vista and XP SP2 had BUGS that crippled FW performance.
Those are fixed now.

And as I told you before, I did simple file transfer comparison via *built in* FW on my PC to same HDD. USB2 vs FW400, and FW400 beat it in every test

The 800 test I used my Mac.

The fact of the matter is that Firewire is a dead technology. (snip) Even high end HD video cameras don't use it. (snip)

Canon XH A1 ($3999) High Definition Camcorder uses 1394
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/c...ategoryid=175&modelid=14061#ModelTechSpecsAct

So does the $8999
XL H1S
DV Terminal HDV/DV Special 6-pin connector (IEEE1394 compatible); both input/output
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/c...ategoryid=175&modelid=17035#ModelTechSpecsAct

Duh. USB 2.0 provides very little power. Perfect for small 2.5" portable HDDs for quick file transfers. I don't want to hook up a full sizd 3.5" drive and have it kill my battery.

Don't get off what YOU said: I do NOT want anything draining my battery. In that case, fast and SMALL USB 2 drives are perfect.

Any 2.5" external HDD will use the exact same amount of power no matter if you connect via USB2, FW, or eSATA. USB2 does not magically make the HDD use no power.

As for a USB2 Flash drive, you can also get a FW Flash drive, look very similar to USB, and yes, both of those use about the same power.


You never researched your statements, and your logic is simply wrong.

So everything is flawed since perfection is unattainable in this world ? The fact that it also doesn't make coffee is a flaw going by your logic.

I think your title is still the only thing wrong. The Macbook is not fundamentally flawed. It works "perfectly" for everyone who buys it knowing full well what it does.

Again, "not meeting your needs" is not some sign of weakness or imperfection or flaw, it's just "not meeting your needs". Sedans aren't flawed because you need a Minivan. Coffee makers aren't flawed because you need a blender.

Okok.
Yes, there is a some "relativity" to the term. Usually history is the final judge.

Maybe we should go to Starbuck's talk this over a brew.

 

[yoak]

Please MOSX, it´s obvious you don´t use your Mac to make money in a creative way. For us who does, FW is very often a must have.
I can edit HD footage of a portable FW800 disk on location, I can´t do that with a USB drive. Simple as that.
Often find myself transferring 100GB and more at the end of a long day, try to compare USB with FW800 speed then.
USB is slow and bad, it´s all I have to say
Oh, and don´t get my started on the benefits over a SD card slot over Express card slot.....

 

[XboxMySocks]

Second, the DVI and DisplayPorts on Intel Macs do NOT support audio, so its not 100% HDMI compatible

No computer has an HDMI output which supports audio. Just pointing that out.

 

[Darth.Titan]

No computer has an HDMI output which supports audio. Just pointing that out.

That is SO not true.

 

[XboxMySocks]

That is SO not true.

If they have a direct HDMI output, then well they do. But so few laptops do anyways.