Fusion Drive and Boot Camp

sesnir

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 21, 2008
347
189
Any theories on how Boot Camp will work with the new Fusion drive? I'm assuming that it'll ignore the SSD and partition the larger physical hard drive... and I'm assuming that Fusion does not work in Windows.
 

forty2j

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2008
2,585
2
NJ
Any theories on how Boot Camp will work with the new Fusion drive? I'm assuming that it'll ignore the SSD and partition the larger physical hard drive... and I'm assuming that Fusion does not work in Windows.
I was wondering about that myself. I think it might actually show as 2 drives in Windows, but Disk Utility will only let you partition the HDD part so you won't get an SSD benefit in Windows.

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Without a hitch. Fusion = Intel SRT
Do you know that it's exactly the same tech? Or just serves the same purpose?
 
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Sjhonny

macrumors 6502
Feb 25, 2011
287
0
The land of the cucumbers
know that it's exactly the same tech? Or just serves the same purpose?
Educated guess. Apple has a "habit" for "creating by renaming" technology (does Power-Nap ring a bell ? :p). Don't see why they shouldn't use this, since it's something on the level of the chipset/MoBo firmware, included in most Ivy Bridge chipsets. So why would they use software raid? They probably did tweak the firmware a little to support up to 128 GiB cache SSDs
 
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One Still Sheep

macrumors member
Oct 16, 2012
84
0
Educated guess. Apple has a "habit" for "creating by renaming" technology (does Power-Nap ring a bell ? :p). Don't see why they shouldn't use this, since it's something on the level of the chipset/MoBo firmware, included in most Ivy Bridge chipsets. So why would they use software raid? They probably did tweak the firmware a little to support up to 128 GiB cache SSDs
This was my thought when I heard the name "hybrid." Correct me if I'm wrong but they are using a mSATA SSD and an HDD with Intel's SRT tech, which has been around for a while now, correct?
 
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flopticalcube

macrumors G4
Auto-tiering makes sense when you have a bigger SSD (128GB) and a relatively smaller mechanical drive (1TB) and also solves write-thru issues. If the SSD was 40GB or so and the mechanical 2TB then cache would be sufficient as it would not be a huge loss of space to double it up to the mechanical drive. I'm wondering if the 21.5" has a 2.5" drive, however.
 
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Sjhonny

macrumors 6502
Feb 25, 2011
287
0
The land of the cucumbers
check Anand. He mentions BootCamp. You might be out of luck ... Since it appears to be an OS X thing. Damn. I actually kinda hoped it was just SRT :p

and 250 for a 128 GiB ssd? come on. I can get a Samsung s830 256 GiB for 160 ... I'll just buy a Thunderbolt enclosure + a 256 GiB SSD.
 
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81Steven

macrumors regular
Dec 10, 2011
137
1
need to know if the raid between flash and traditional disk is osx related or os undepended...

i hope it works in bootcamp too
 
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kgian

macrumors regular
Jul 17, 2011
186
8
I would like to buy a new 27 iMac but I am waiting to see what is going to happen with the bootcamp issue. I am mainly a windows fan as I do some gaming and want a good looking and powerfull AIO.

I would like to know if I can have windows on the SSD. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 
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iPhonePunker

macrumors newbie
Nov 22, 2012
21
0
Ireland
im hoping the new i5 model mac mini supports fusion drive cause it doesn't give you the option on apples website only the i7 model. i dont mind buying a SSD and installing it my self but if it doesn't support fusion on the lower end models im goin to be quit disappointed not including just finding out Fusion wont be supporting on bootcamp ether i was look forward to speedy ubuntu and windows :(
 
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Phx08

macrumors member
Nov 7, 2012
59
0
Sorry to dig up an old thread....have there been any breakthroughs on this?
 
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krazygoat

macrumors member
May 24, 2008
56
7
Bootcamp will never work with Fusion Drive because Fusion Drive uses Apple's Corestorage, so unless Apple wrote a Corestorage system for Windows then Bootcamp will only be able to use the regular HD and not the SSD. Better bet would be to put your Bootcamp partition on it's own hybrid disk or SSD is you need the speed. Your only choices would be Fusion Drive for OSX and external drive for Bootcamp.
 
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MatthewAMEL

macrumors 6502
Oct 23, 2007
372
4
Orlando, FL
Bootcamp will never work with Fusion Drive because Fusion Drive uses Apple's Corestorage, so unless Apple wrote a Corestorage system for Windows then Bootcamp will only be able to use the regular HD and not the SSD. Better bet would be to put your Bootcamp partition on it's own hybrid disk or SSD is you need the speed. Your only choices would be Fusion Drive for OSX and external drive for Bootcamp.
Well, not exactly...

You can order pre-configured with a Fusion Drive which will give you a 128GB SSD and 1 or 3TB HDD.

When you get it, you can 'break the fusion', install Boot Camp onto a partition on the SSD, re-Fusion the remaining SSD/HDD and merrily go on your way.

Since the Windows partition will be small, you could also partition the HDD (one extra partition is allowed using Fusion) and use that for game/file storage. The 2.2TB limit is a boot limit only.

Theoretically, of course. BTW- you CAN do this with the DIY Fusion Drive. Several users (myself included) have this setup in non-factory fusion drives. I have a OWC 240GB SSD and 500GB HDD running with Boot Camp off the SSD.
 
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BoeingDriver

macrumors newbie
Dec 12, 2012
1
0
"break fusion"

MatthewAMEL--can you tell me where to find instructions for the process you described to "break fusion" etc.?
 
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gagaliya

macrumors 6502
Feb 24, 2010
280
16
When you get it, you can 'break the fusion', install Boot Camp onto a partition on the SSD, re-Fusion the remaining SSD/HDD and merrily go on your way.
wow are you sure? not able to bootcamp windows 7 os directly on the ssd was a showstopper for me, but this will resolve it if it's true. I can just install bootcamp win 7 os on the internal ssd, then all other windows files on external thunderbolt ssd.
 
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MatthewAMEL

macrumors 6502
Oct 23, 2007
372
4
Orlando, FL
MatthewAMEL--can you tell me where to find instructions for the process you described to "break fusion" etc.?
http://www.macworld.com/article/2015664/how-to-split-up-a-fusion-drive.html

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wow are you sure? not able to bootcamp windows 7 os directly on the ssd was a showstopper for me, but this will resolve it if it's true. I can just install bootcamp win 7 os on the internal ssd, then all other windows files on external thunderbolt ssd.
You can partition the drives any way you want and add the drives/partitions to a Fusion Drive. My biggest gripe is the 128GB SSD. There should've been an option to make that 256 or 512.

Just keep in mind you'll have to DIY the Fusion Drive if you want to put Windows on the SSD.
 
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gagaliya

macrumors 6502
Feb 24, 2010
280
16
http://www.macworld.com/article/2015664/how-to-split-up-a-fusion-drive.html

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You can partition the drives any way you want and add the drives/partitions to a Fusion Drive. My biggest gripe is the 128GB SSD. There should've been an option to make that 256 or 512.

Just keep in mind you'll have to DIY the Fusion Drive if you want to put Windows on the SSD.
what do you mean DIY the fusion drive, do you just mean to repartition, then assign the partition to the fusion drive through some utility or you mean to physically open up the iMac and do something with it, thanks.
 
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krazygoat

macrumors member
May 24, 2008
56
7
Yes you can partition, but like I said windows will never be able to use the Fusion drive, only the OSX side of things can use it because you need Corestorage to recognize the Fusion drive, which is why older OSX (anything older than current release of Mountain Lion) can't use it either. Once it is partitioned out that new partition is not a Fusion drive, it is just a SSD or HD partition. Fusion drive is only when they are bonded together as one drive with data tiering.

What I am hoping is Apple expands Corestorage to allow the bonding of N number drives and set N level parity with mixed drives. That would be awesome since Apple dropped ZFS.


Well, not exactly...

You can order pre-configured with a Fusion Drive which will give you a 128GB SSD and 1 or 3TB HDD.

When you get it, you can 'break the fusion', install Boot Camp onto a partition on the SSD, re-Fusion the remaining SSD/HDD and merrily go on your way.

Since the Windows partition will be small, you could also partition the HDD (one extra partition is allowed using Fusion) and use that for game/file storage. The 2.2TB limit is a boot limit only.

Theoretically, of course. BTW- you CAN do this with the DIY Fusion Drive. Several users (myself included) have this setup in non-factory fusion drives. I have a OWC 240GB SSD and 500GB HDD running with Boot Camp off the SSD.
 
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MatthewAMEL

macrumors 6502
Oct 23, 2007
372
4
Orlando, FL
Yes you can partition, but like I said windows will never be able to use the Fusion drive, only the OSX side of things can use it because you need Corestorage to recognize the Fusion drive, which is why older OSX (anything older than current release of Mountain Lion) can't use it either. Once it is partitioned out that new partition is not a Fusion drive, it is just a SSD or HD partition. Fusion drive is only when they are bonded together as one drive with data tiering.

What I am hoping is Apple expands Corestorage to allow the bonding of N number drives and set N level parity with mixed drives. That would be awesome since Apple dropped ZFS.
No one said anything about Windows running off the Fusion Drive.

I was merely illustrating how you can get Boot Camp to work with the SSD, instead of the HDD and then re-create your own Fusion Drive with the remaining pieces. It's already been shown that CoreStorage will happily bond anything together as a Fusion Drive. Internal/Internal, Internal/External, External/External, SATA, USB, TB, FW, etc...it doesn't care. CoreStorage already supports N drives with N parity. Since 10.7, when you create a software RAID, it's CoreStorage doing that work.

All we need now is a filesystem as robust as ZFS. We finally have a volume manager (CoreStorage).
 
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woodztream

macrumors newbie
Jun 25, 2012
14
0
Windows without Bootcamp

I'm waiting for my iMac 27" with the 3TB Fusion Drive. I understand now that I won't be able to use bootcamp, witch sucks. So how do I go about to get Windows on it for gaming? I have read that I can partition the HDD and then install Windows from a flashdrive. What will I loose from not being able to use basecamp? Finding drivers?

/Micke
 
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krazygoat

macrumors member
May 24, 2008
56
7
Original poster asked if Fusion Drive drive worked in Windows

Corestorage is a logical volume manager and not related to Apple's software RAID which has been in OSX pretty much unchanged for eons and is limited to stripe (no parity) or mirror parity. Before Fusion Drive support you could only mess around with a single disk. Fusion drive is limited to a very specific two drive setup. The commands are there to span the logical volume group to N number of physical volumes but outside of Fusion Drive they are not fully fleshed out.

Apple is working on a complete full-featured volume manager but a lot of functionality is lacking and there are no advanced data protection features (mirror, snapshot, RAID, replicate)

So it looks like N pools are coming so hopefully parity comes too and it isn't just mirror, double, or triple parity but N parity.



No one said anything about Windows running off the Fusion Drive.

I was merely illustrating how you can get Boot Camp to work with the SSD, instead of the HDD and then re-create your own Fusion Drive with the remaining pieces. It's already been shown that CoreStorage will happily bond anything together as a Fusion Drive. Internal/Internal, Internal/External, External/External, SATA, USB, TB, FW, etc...it doesn't care. CoreStorage already supports N drives with N parity. Since 10.7, when you create a software RAID, it's CoreStorage doing that work.

All we need now is a filesystem as robust as ZFS. We finally have a volume manager (CoreStorage).
 
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