Future 1080p?

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by haze, Aug 23, 2008.

  1. haze macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    #1
    What do you think the limitation is right now for lack of 1080p? Hardware not powerful enough? I can't see myself going through my whole collection and ripping again if the next version of ATV has 1080p. Or does it not make that much of a difference on a 46" with .mp4 compression?
     
  2. t0mat0 macrumors 603

    t0mat0

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Location:
    Home
    #2
    Profit, incentive... A lot of areas are moving towards better and better resolution e.g. to upscaling DVD players, 720i, 720p, 1080i, 1080p. Apple TV is more of a hobby currently, but will probably be linked into the Apple ecosystem and made more serious in time. As for when it'll turn to 1080 for ATV? Check out the Buyer's Guide, and see what the rivals are doing I guess.
     
  3. Bye Bye Baby macrumors 65816

    Bye Bye Baby

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    Sep 15, 2004
    Location:
    i(am in the)cloud
    #3
    1080p is not a simple thing

    Number of reasons. The first is that Apple offers no 1080p content. As far as downloading films etc, not likely to do so for a while. 1080p is only viable at the moment on solid media.

    Would love to see :apple:TV get into the iphone and 1080p high def, but it will be a while in coming.
     
  4. TXCraig macrumors 6502a

    TXCraig

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    #4
    If you research true 1080p... you will see its a real marketing gimmick designed to get people that purchased 1080i sets to move up.

    From what I have read you would need a ton if bandwidth to watch a true 1080p movie. I think the Apple TV box could do it but I don't think too many people have the 100 MB connection to the internet needed to download a 40 GB movie....
     
  5. Cave Man macrumors 604

    Cave Man

    #5
    Nah, not really. I was watching I, Robot in 1080 Dolby Digital 5.1 just last night on my Mac Mini. ;)
     
  6. Cave Man macrumors 604

    Cave Man

    #6
    One I have is just under 10 gb and at 10 mbps. Very nice video.
     
  7. almostinsane macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    #7
    Lol, what research have you been reading? 1080P isn't a gimmick. Have you seen 1080P content on a 1080P TV? IT looks frickin' amazing.Compression methods just keep getting better and better. You can compress media to 12mbit/s and it will look damn good with 1080P resolution.

    Direct TV is offering 1080P movie downloads.
     
  8. northy124 macrumors 68020

    northy124

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    #8
    From what I know most are no bigger than 25 - 30GB in size (With everything, Extra audio, subs etc) and it can be reduced in size down to 10GB (4GB once only once though).
     
  9. haze thread starter macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    #9
    I forgot to consider the bigger file size. I have been watching on a CRT, so 720 ATV stuff should be quite an improvement. In conjunction with the ATV I am thinking of dumping the CRT and getting the new Samsung 46" 120hz 1080p from Amazon. They have it fir only $1669 right now and that is with no tax. I'd save $500 over the local shops and they had already marked down for labor day sale.
     
  10. almostinsane macrumors regular

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    Feb 9, 2008
    #10
    It's not a matter of 'if' but 'when'. In the next few years we will see a lot more 1080P content available for download. People are getting faster and faster connections and compression methods get better and better.
     
  11. northy124 macrumors 68020

    northy124

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    #11
    When did I say if? I know it will happen but will Apple do it sooner rather than later (Most likely later in US due to crap speeds most people complain of on other forums as well as here).
     
  12. almostinsane macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    #12
    My guess is that it will be a while before Apple adds it. 720P is good enough for most of their customers.

    They need to add Blu-ray decoding and a player to their Mac lineup first.
     
  13. Forced Perfect macrumors 6502

    Forced Perfect

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada.
    #13
    I totally agree with you on this.

    As someone with a relatively high end TV (40" Sony KDL-40XBR4) with HD cable, Apple TV and a PS3 for Blu-ray, I can say 1080p absolutely destroys 720p/1080i.

    If you're watching video from a good source (a Pixar Blu-ray for example) you will easily see the difference. Especially if you are comparing it to HDTV broadcasts at 720p or 1080i since they generally only get 3-6 Mbit/sec for bandwidth.
     
  14. JonMan macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    #14
    Here is the magic question, though: is the Apple TV hardware, in its current form, capable of playing back 1080p content?

    I must admit, I am not overly impressed with the 720p movie rentals from the Apple TV. I would say the picture quality falls somewhere in between that of a DVD (420p) and a true 720p broadcast from HD cable or satellite.
     
  15. bmb012 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    #15
    Bah, 1080p is a gimmick. A '1080i' TV is really just a TV with 720p resolution that accepts a 1080i signal. I have a 720p LCD, my roommate has a 1080p LCD, I can see very little difference in the two. Besides that, a 1080p tv running at 1080i is running at a pretty similar resolution to a 1080p signal, and 60 half fields a second versus 30 full fields a second... is there really much of a difference there on 30 fps content?
     
  16. almostinsane macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    #16
    What size are these LCD's you speak of? Are you viewing any 1080P content on them when you say you see very little difference?

    A 1080i TV, when they were made, has a 540P equivalent resolution. There are no 1080i TV's made anymore.

    You can't watch sports at 30fps. 30fps is just to slow for content that has quick changes. Watching the Olympics at 30fps would just be painful. It would be 1080P60, not 1080P30. There isn't much difference between 1080i60 and 1080P60 other than lack of combing and double the data rate for 60fps.

    What's the gimmick? That 1080P is 2.5X's the resolution of 720P? Wow, thats snake oil right there.
     
  17. BoulderBum macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    #17
    Bandwidth. I don't want to have to wait for movies to watch them, so I'm fine with 720P.

    I wish it were a little less compressed, though, so the color range made it look more "HD".
     
  18. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    Location:
    IOWA
    #18



    No, 1080p is not a "gimmick" by definition. However, retailers do try and oversell it by convincing average consumers that they need it... when they don't. Not by a long shot. The thing people never consider when deciding on the resolution of screen they need, is the distance they sit from said screen! The distance you sit is JUST as important as the resolution of the screen.

    Most people don't sit close enough to their TV to see any benefit from 1080p over 720p. In general, unless you're building a home theatre, or sit abnormally close to your TV during normal use... you will NEVER see a difference between 720p and 1080p. The human eye simply can't resolve the difference between the two at normal viewing distances.

    For example, if you have a 50" set, and you're sitting more than 7-8 feet away (most people would sit more than 10) you will not see ANY DIFFERENCE between 1080 and 720. Your eyes physically can't resolve the difference. It's kind of like taking a wallet-size photo with a 12mp camera and hoping to see a resolution difference between that and a 4mp camera. Ain't going to happen.

    This chart might give you a better idea of what I'm talking about:
    [​IMG]

    Bottom line... 90% of customers probably won't see any benefit whatsoever from 1080p. Analyze the chart and make your own assessment. Depending on how close you sit, how big your screen is, etc. you might. If you're in the market for a set, I recommend you go to the store yourself and find two tv sets which are identical models except for resolution. Start at about 25' back, and walk forward until you think you can see a resolution difference. And then, when you think you start seeing a difference, glance at the price tags on the set. 720p sets are usually around 50-70% of the price of their identical 1080p counterparts.

    Personally, I did this... and couldn't see a difference (on a 50" set) until around 6' or so. Needless to say, now I have AppleTV hooked up to my 720 Panny Plasma, and it looks GORGEOUS! Absolutely perfect.


    ---
    Here are what I consider to be the most important features for image quality on new HDTV sets. 5 and 6 are debatable. you could switch them, I suppose.

    (Most Important)
    1. High Quality Source
    2. Contrast Ratio (brilliant whites, deep blacks)
    3. Refresh Rate (LCDs Only)
    4. Color Saturation
    5. Color Accuracy
    6. Resolution
    (Least Important)
     
  19. kolax macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    #19
    Oh dear, not this again.

    1080p won't be worth the money unless you set up your TV at the right distance and care about a few extra bits of detail.

    720p does fine for me.
     
  20. dynaflash macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    #20
    its really not that confusing.

    If you think you see a difference in your setup and have the money. Spend it.

    If not, don't.

    Never seen so much discussion over personal preference. Don't let other people tell you what you like or don't like. < shakes head>
     
  21. almostinsane macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    #21
    Oh no, not someone posting that chart again. The chart is well known to be bullsh*t and inaccurate.

    Perception of resolution is not linear.

    Your shortchanging yourself if you get a 720P set. The price difference between 720P and 1080P has narrowed a lot. AppleTV can't take advantage of the additional resolution but HD cable, Blu-ray, and games can.
     
  22. nutmac macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    #22
    The visual difference between 720p and 1080p depends largely on contents. For instance, animated films (particularly CGI varieties) are eye poppingly detailed on 1080p whereas movies with softer look, such as many of the classics, are not significantly better on 1080p. And it's safe to say 1080p do not look worse than 720p (compression rate notwithstanding). And many photos certainly look much better on 1080p vs. 720p.

    I don't think anyone would intentionally choose 720p over 1080p given little or no price difference on today's TV sets (for 40" or larger). 1080p Apple TV a question of "when" than "if" -- unless Apple decides to kill Apple TV altogether (I personally think Apple should make a TV with Apple TV built-in).
     
  23. Estrates macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    #23
    Ive been reading some very silly uneducated replies and Im realy saddened by some of these replies since they either never seen or done extensive testing to get the real facts between

    720 and 1080
    And most important
    The Value of a good LCD or Plasma, which makes the whole difference regardless what format your watching.

    I have a 52" Samsung and watch 1080 through my ps3, I also have HD on Satellite in 720

    1080 is by far the more superior out of these two formats the crisp fine edging is amazing compared to 720 (I suggest not using CRT for these tests).

    I sit about 10 feet from my 52" and see the difference like night and day and yes Im very meticulous with my electronics, ive been testing LCD, Plasma, 1080 an 720 for almost 4 years now and the HDTV's I found best were LCD but that could be for other reasons. Plasmas are sweet as well but in the last 4 years its the HDTVs that have allowed such a thing possible.

    The real problem for AppleTV is not hardware or software but rather the bandwidth it would require to transfer 1080, imagine Rogers, Bell etc coughin up 20-40 GB per movie... now imagine 8-10 movies a month for each household the costs would go through the roof, thus the company would have to implement a monthly cap (which I think will happen eventually) or pay a large premium.

    There is a Huge difference between 720 and 1080 when using the correct HDTV(s) for now blu-ray will have to remain strictly for the 1080 experience.
     
  24. Henrikgud macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    #24
    what mac mini?

    sorry for bumping an old thread!

    but I cant find any other therd this question fit better :/

    Cave Man

    u say u can play 1080p on your mac mini?
    what generation of the mini do u have and what software are u useing?
    heard that plex and xbmc 2gather with the mac mini can handel 1080p tho I havent got this confirmed?! would be great if I could get an answer on this, since if it work as I hope I will buy a Mac mini next week!

    thanks in advance n sorry for bad spelling ;)
     
  25. Cave Man macrumors 604

    Cave Man

    #25
    I have the 2 gHz Mac Mini with 3 gb RAM and a 500 gb internal and 1.5 TB external FW400 hard drive connected to an Onkyo 5.1 HTIB by optical cable. I use Plex exclusively for my Blu-ray video playback (1080p with Dolby Digital or DTS). I now have about 35 or 40 Blu-ray rips and all but two play without any perceivable dropped frames. See my sig for additional details.

     

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