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Future iPhone To Use Intel Moorestown Processor?
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Still not believing any rumors about a 3G or next gen iPhone. If you ask me, there are just way too many rumors, unreliable sources, and new rumors surface way too often to be taken as anything more than just a rumor. I might start believing more when there is some hard evidence or very convincing information from a reliable source.
No one knows. People speculate June-September and even as late as November, but no one knows. Apple is secretive.
Not really, Apple acquired some time back a company with a bit of Tech they call Rosetta which allowed run time translation of PPC binary to run on x86. And do it at run time to boot.
From Memory the startup had demo's of other chip translator already sort of working when Steve come knocking with a big check and a job offer.
It would be just as likely that Aspen is intel only as Rosetta (both PPC and now ARM) has only really been tested on intel.
Uh, here is an excerpt from a recent article in zdnet.com (http://blogs.zdnet.com/mobile-gadgeteer/?p=593) ...
Steve Jobs confirms that a 3G iPhone will be coming in 2008
Posted by Matthew Miller @ 8:51 pm
It is pretty obvious that Apple is working on future iPhone models and there has been lots of speculation that a 3G model would be released in Europe this year. However, as confirmed by the O2 UK iPhone announcement from earlier today the first European model will also be 2.5G (EDGE) just like the U.S. model. Upon further questioning at the UK announcement, Jobs did confirm that a 3G model will be released before the end of 2008. He also stated that the reason 3G was not included in the first iPhone was the battery drain users would experience with the 3G radio.
Uh, here's another article from MacWorld (http://www.macworld.com/article/61275/2007/11/3giphone.html) ...
3G iPhone coming in '08, says AT&T
by Jim DalrympleNov 29, 2007
It’s not often that someone trumps Steve Jobs with news on upcoming Apple products, but AT&T Chief Executive Officer Randall Stephenson did that on Thursday by saying Apple would announce a 3G version of the iPhone in 2008, according to a Bloomberg report.
Stephenson’s comments came at a meeting of the Churchill Club in Santa Clara, California. “You’ll have it next year,” he said. He didn’t know how much the phone would cost, saying that Steve Jobs would set the price for the new iPhone.
Here are a few more links to articles relating to a 3G update. Please let me know when I've posted some "very convincing information from a reliable source." ...
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/confirmed/jobs-confirms-3g-iphone-coming-2008-300900.php
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/142380/3g_iphone_coming_soon_analysts_say.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334129,00.html
okay, I have to admit ... fox news might not be THAT reliable.
finally
and the genesis for the "well, i'm going to wait until the 3rd generation iphone" argument is born . . .
and the genesis for the "well, i'm going to wait until the 3rd generation iphone" argument is born . . .
I hope not. I posted the links because when both Steve Jobs and AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson confirm that there will be a 3G iPhone in 2008, it's more than a rumor.
I think what I meant was unclear. I know there is a 3G iPhone that Jobs said would be released in 2008 and I believe that his goal is to get one out by the end of the year (If it happens or not is another story). I DO NOT doubt the rumors of some sort of 3G iPhone being released. The rumors about this 3G iPhone and next gen iPhone I refuse to believe are about exact details and release date estimates. If you search the internet you can find so many "inside sources" giving a date for release, that the entire year is blanketed with leaked release dates. If you look hard enough you could probably find someone saying it was supposed to be announced today. The same can go for features of the next iPhone... rumors of this and that are all over. This topic just seems to have so many more rumors that are proved incorrect daily, that I pretty much no longer believe the details of most the rumors.
Had I not been a believer in a 3G iPhone, your research would have been helpful.
An icon in a presentation slide is not a rumor. I don't care what the Inq has heard... I clip stuff into my presentations all the time just because the image is recognizable. Granted you should be careful what you show at CeBit, but there's nothing about that slide that says anything other than "we want to be in cell phones".
Microsoft designates Windows Mobile for embedded devices, but that doesn't mean it's suitable. They can keep repeating "real time" until they're blue in the face, but their interrupt latencies make Mobile anything but real time, not to mention their store apps and registry in RAM paradigm.
Joules is joules. Regardless of what marketing says, Moorestown still runs too hot.
If you get a chance to interview an Intel exec, ask them what market space they don't have a CPU available to serve. I think you'll find they target a CPU at everything-- that doesn't mean they'll have anything suitable. If they don't have it now, the next generation will be best of breed, or if not that generation then the one after.
Microsoft designates Windows Mobile for embedded devices, but that doesn't mean it's suitable. They can keep repeating "real time" until they're blue in the face, but their interrupt latencies make Mobile anything but real time, not to mention their store apps and registry in RAM paradigm.
Joules is joules. Regardless of what marketing says, Moorestown still runs too hot.
My point is that the 3G iPhone is coming out in 2008 as stated by both Jobs and the CEO of AT$T and that is not a rumor. As for the other rumors ... well, this is MacRumors.com. You might like MacFacts.net better.
I would say that they are merely using a picture of the iPhone as an example of the type of device it might be used in. It does not mean that it's destined for iPhone.
Edit: as tpouliot said
Edit: as tpouliot said
Apple know they need 3G for the non-US market (especially asia, but here in the UK with 90%+ 3G and <20% Edge it's a no brainer as well). Steve has said 2008.. but you can bet they'll release the moment they have the chips and the production lines ready. The mobile market is very competitive, and if apple want to begin to compete they're going to have to look sharp (Global market is about 1 billion handsets a year. Nokia sell 30 million handsets per *month*, so Apple's goal of 10 million this year is them aiming for a mere 1% of the market).
These rumors are not "ignorant" because of their source, they are stupid because Intel doesn't have any processor that is anywhere near competitive with ARM in this area, neither at performance per watt nor at dollar cost, and any engineer at Apple considering these chips for the iPhone for more than five minutes would need their head examined.
That ability has been in place for years. Universal binaries are not restricted to Intel and PowerPC in any way. An enterprising hacker could have added an ARM, MIPS and Itanium compiler to XCode and produced Universal binaries containing PPC 32 bit, PPC 64 bit, Intel 32 bit, Intel 64 bit, ARM, MIPS and Itanium code for years (there is the little problem of finding a Mac with the matching processor, and Apple doesn't provide the libraries).
I wouldn't be surprised at all if Apple had a few computers running MacOS X on ARM somewhere in their office.
More Hype for a Flat Device
I think the only advancements that can be made to the iPhone now are the completion and implementation of the SDK (hopefully that will fix the plethora of software issues and missing functions and features) and putting the phone on a different network for those that know AT&T is a BS cell provider.
A new processor will eventually come, as will more versions of the device, but that is all moot when you consider the need for better software and a better service provider.
I think the only advancements that can be made to the iPhone now are the completion and implementation of the SDK (hopefully that will fix the plethora of software issues and missing functions and features) and putting the phone on a different network for those that know AT&T is a BS cell provider.
A new processor will eventually come, as will more versions of the device, but that is all moot when you consider the need for better software and a better service provider.
Intel's slides show the combination of CPU and chipset to be way too large for such a use, especially in the iPhone which has a tiny motherboard which also includes all the communications and flash memory. I think Intel want to redefine what a smartphone is.
I'm sure you'll see plenty of Windows Mobile 2010 smartbricks though.
What about future AppleTV type devices?
There's a lot of heat and noise (literally and figuratively) following speculation that Moorestown parts would be used in a future iPhone or iPhone-like device. What about future
TV-like devices? Okay, they're not portable, but they call for a relatively low-power (MIPS and watts-wise) CPU and this could be just the ticket.
There's a lot of heat and noise (literally and figuratively) following speculation that Moorestown parts would be used in a future iPhone or iPhone-like device. What about future
TV-like devices? Okay, they're not portable, but they call for a relatively low-power (MIPS and watts-wise) CPU and this could be just the ticket.
Did you really say "if apple wants to begin to compete?" You are joking, right? If you don't think they have started playing in the market, you are insane. Nokia in America is continuing to drop in sales yearly and isn't even a top 3 seller anymore. I just read a few months ago that LG, Motorola, and Samsung now sell more phones in the US than Nokia. Yes, that is only America which isn't extremely important on the worldwide scale, but Apple hasn't been producing cell phones for a full year yet and will probably sell about half as many phones as nokia this year.. Nokia also offers many models of phones with various different prices and they are available in probably 10x the # of markets if not more. Compare the first model of Nokia phone to the iPhone and see the sales comparison in the first 8 months. I would guess that Apple blows them away. Basically you are looking at it on way too large of a scale right now. Apple seems to want to take control of a large percentage of the American market before totally focusing on global. Currently Apple is only slowly expanding, but I bet if you compare the numbers 3 years from now, they will be a lot closer to that of Nokia, especially if Apple introduces a cheaper model of the iPhone.
What?! The iPhone is a next gen computer platform. Read David Pogue in today's NYT's ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/t...ogue-email.html?_r=1&8cir&emc=cir&oref=slogin
3G iPhone? And I'm going to get service for it where?
Turn the "3G" iPhone argument over for a moment. Right now, AT&T's "3G" coverage (HSDPA) is a pathetic joke. Yay for you if you live in DC, San Fran or NYC. But for the other 280 million citizens of the US, there effectively is no "3G" coverage. (Also note that US "3G" coverage isn't even on the same FREQUENCIES as European or Asian; in the US it's at 850 and 1900 MHz, in Europe and Asia it's on 2100 MHz, so you can't even use the same radio!)
The iPhone has bigger "missing features", like the lack of A2DP (the ultimate iPod doesn't support wireless stereo headphones?!), and the lack of voice dialing (that the "free with 2 year contract" Motorolas at Verizon don't lack).
Unfortunately, "3G" support is a chicken and egg problem - and right now, AT&T is the chicken and iPhone is the egg. For now, I think Apple is on the right track, looking for ways to expand the number of places you can get free WiFi (like their deal with AT&T and Starbucks), because that's something they can do in the short run. In the long run, AT&T has to make good on their promise to expand "3G" coverage before a "3G" iPhone will do most of us here in the 'States - Apple's biggest market - any good.
Turn the "3G" iPhone argument over for a moment. Right now, AT&T's "3G" coverage (HSDPA) is a pathetic joke. Yay for you if you live in DC, San Fran or NYC. But for the other 280 million citizens of the US, there effectively is no "3G" coverage. (Also note that US "3G" coverage isn't even on the same FREQUENCIES as European or Asian; in the US it's at 850 and 1900 MHz, in Europe and Asia it's on 2100 MHz, so you can't even use the same radio!)
The iPhone has bigger "missing features", like the lack of A2DP (the ultimate iPod doesn't support wireless stereo headphones?!), and the lack of voice dialing (that the "free with 2 year contract" Motorolas at Verizon don't lack).
Unfortunately, "3G" support is a chicken and egg problem - and right now, AT&T is the chicken and iPhone is the egg. For now, I think Apple is on the right track, looking for ways to expand the number of places you can get free WiFi (like their deal with AT&T and Starbucks), because that's something they can do in the short run. In the long run, AT&T has to make good on their promise to expand "3G" coverage before a "3G" iPhone will do most of us here in the 'States - Apple's biggest market - any good.
Although the 2nd gen Atom "Moorestown" platform looks promising as it will be a full X86 mobile system-on-a-chip ....as everyone else says, it's definitely going to face STIFF competition from ARM.
The current iPhone has a Samsung-made ARM11 (v6) RISC processor. The newest generation (v7) ARM processor cores are called the ARM Cortex. There are two main variants, the Cortex-A8 and Cortex-A9. If you go to the Samsung or Texas Instruments websites you can see their roadmaps for new ARM processors using the newer ARM Cortex series which can run at up to 1.0ghz+. Its hard to interpret all the technical data, but the general view is that these will offer a significant performance increase at the same or lower power consumption, including more powerful graphics and video processing from a new SIMD media engine.
Something to think about is how Apple would be able to increase the processing and graphics capability of future iPhone/Touch models while maintaining full software compatibility with earlier models... For most software applications, I wouldn't imagine this would present much of a problem but what about for HD media or graphics intensive apps like games?
Would developers have to build feature variability into their software to compensate for different device's performance characteristics?
Any experienced developers want to comment on this? How has this been handled on other platforms like Windows Mobile or Palm for example?
btw, here are some ARM links about the new processors....
http://www.newlc.com/arm-unveils-cortex-a9-processors-scalable-performance-and-low-power-designs
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM_Cortex-A8.html
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARMCortex-A9SingleCore.html
The current iPhone has a Samsung-made ARM11 (v6) RISC processor. The newest generation (v7) ARM processor cores are called the ARM Cortex. There are two main variants, the Cortex-A8 and Cortex-A9. If you go to the Samsung or Texas Instruments websites you can see their roadmaps for new ARM processors using the newer ARM Cortex series which can run at up to 1.0ghz+. Its hard to interpret all the technical data, but the general view is that these will offer a significant performance increase at the same or lower power consumption, including more powerful graphics and video processing from a new SIMD media engine.
Something to think about is how Apple would be able to increase the processing and graphics capability of future iPhone/Touch models while maintaining full software compatibility with earlier models... For most software applications, I wouldn't imagine this would present much of a problem but what about for HD media or graphics intensive apps like games?
Would developers have to build feature variability into their software to compensate for different device's performance characteristics?
Any experienced developers want to comment on this? How has this been handled on other platforms like Windows Mobile or Palm for example?
btw, here are some ARM links about the new processors....
http://www.newlc.com/arm-unveils-cortex-a9-processors-scalable-performance-and-low-power-designs
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM_Cortex-A8.html
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARMCortex-A9SingleCore.html
Exactly the reason Apple better not have ****** signed a long ass exclusivity agreement with AT&T. AT&T 3G is a total joke. Verizon/Sprint have EV-DO 3G rolled out fricken everywhere. Seriously the coverage is great, and all of both companies 3G service is both fast download AND upload, comparable to HSDPA + HSUPA. My DREAM would be if Apple pulled out a CDMA 3G iPhone in June, but obviously the likelihood of that is almost zero.
I really don't understand what the hell has taken AT&T so damn long to get their 3G service rolled out. I would go AT&T in a minute if they had even DECENT service where I live, work and travel... but even their plain-old GSM service is HORRIBLE in the west, most significantly in rural and suburban areas in the inland states. I just cannot be without service for hours during a routine trip I make on a MAJOR interstate highway. For this reason I will always be on Verizon or Sprint and will NEVER use AT&T. I can assure you I am not the only one facing the problem of having crappy AT&T service or having a corporate account through a different provider that won't change anytime soon.
I do really wonder how long the AT&T exclusive period lasts, and whether there are different lengths for "total exclusivity" and "GSM exclusivity", meaning we would see a Verizon iPhone before a Tmobile iPhone. I really hope so. Not to change the topic of this thread, but I think this greedy exclusive-for-revenue AT&T crap was a total mistake.
I don't know if it was a mistake for Apple to be exclusive with AT&T for the short term as they needed to get into a completely new business quickly (and the cellular phone market's business model is truly anti-consumer and anti-competition when wanting to use a particular handset (in a particular color even). But I agree that it's terrible for the consumer and I hope that Apple's contract ends soon. I'm still deciding on whether to unlock or switch over to AT&T when I buy my first iPhone in late June or early July.
As for no 3G in the first year's iPhone, I think Apple waited because they were having issues with too much power consumption.