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ctdonath

macrumors 68000
Mar 11, 2009
1,592
629
I don't see how this improves upon the iPhone. How many people have played a game and said to themselves, "Gee, this game would be SO much better with more realistic lighting and shadows."?

Me. For 35 years I've watched computer games go from Space Invaders to Crysis. For most of that time there has been at least an undercurrent of "please make the graphics more realistic".
 

0098386

Suspended
Jan 18, 2005
21,574
2,908
Am I the only one who prefers the rasterized-only image in the example?

Not at all. I find the readability much better on the rasterised image, and given the size of a phone's display that's what I want.
 

Ayr

macrumors 6502
Mar 8, 2014
266
0
Wait. What benefit would this be to me?

Is this just a way to make games look better?
 

0098386

Suspended
Jan 18, 2005
21,574
2,908
I don't see how this improves upon the iPhone. How many people have played a game and said to themselves, "Gee, this game would be SO much better with more realistic lighting and shadows."?

Improvements are always good, but IMO there is a point where you have to consider the limits of the device outside of performance. Why would I want photo realism on an iPhone game where my fingers will be obscuring the view the whole time, on a tiny screen where a high FOV isn't necessary?

On something a little larger where my own body won't obscure the image, on say a large TV or a large-screen handheld (like the Vita); sure. Go wild. Just make sure the art direction is given a bigger priority than "realism".
 

honglong1976

macrumors 68000
Jul 12, 2008
1,636
1,092
UK
I would prefer games running at 30fps/60fps constantly over fancy effects.

That's one thing about a dedicated handheld like PSP/3DS, every game was/is super smooth. As much as I love the iPhone, I wish the developers would run games at a constant fps rate!
 

Arran

macrumors 601
Mar 7, 2008
4,847
3,779
Atlanta, USA
It's interesting (in an academic sort-of way) but more "realism" is no substitute for engagement. E.g.:
 

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DaffyDuck

macrumors 6502
Jun 18, 2007
472
3
This is very overhyped across all the news today (not just iPhone specific). Ray tracing subjective visual advantage at too much of a cost.

I wholeheartedly, adamantly, disagree. The visual advantage is not subjective. It's very objective in fact. Perhaps you haven't seen some of the better ray tracing examples out there?
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,181
19,027
I wholeheartedly, adamantly, disagree. The visual advantage is not subjective. It's very objective in fact. Perhaps you haven't seen some of the better ray tracing examples out there?

What purpose does the visual advantage of raytracing have if comes at the cost of decreased performance and vastly increased software complexity? There is nothing in the showed example that can't be done with rasterising - and I would guess at a lower performance cost. Raytracing is the future, no doubt about it, but I won't consider it in large style until it can do virtual resources. The requirement to have all the data in memory and difficulties in dealing with dynamic scenes is a big killer in my book.
 

winston1236

macrumors 68000
Dec 13, 2010
1,902
319
for gaming? or something else? mapping?

that seems like it is really processor intensive...though i don't have a clue what it means.

Its very processor intensive, having more cores helps but to put it in its most basic definition it just means more life-like graphics for games.
 

Piggie

macrumors G3
Feb 23, 2010
9,116
4,013
So much talk here for people who don't have a clue what they are on about.

If anyone actually here is interested in anything other than a quick rubbish headline, here is something you may learn from, from someone who actually knows what they are talking about:



http://youtu.be/MG4QuTe8aUw


-
 

ctdonath

macrumors 68000
Mar 11, 2009
1,592
629
This is very overhyped across all the news today (not just iPhone specific). Ray tracing subjective visual advantage at too much of a cost.

It _was_ too much cost. Entry cost to rat tracing is very high, so rasterization took shortcuts to approximate results cheaper. Now that rasterization hardware is the same power as equivalent ray tracing, better to just switch to ray tracing because further improvements will cost much less vs comparable rasterization improvements.
 

Renzatic

Suspended
It _was_ too much cost. Entry cost to rat tracing is very high, so rasterization took shortcuts to approximate results cheaper. Now that rasterization hardware is the same power as equivalent ray tracing, better to just switch to ray tracing because further improvements will cost much less vs comparable rasterization improvements.

I wouldn't say rasterizers are equivalent, though they can convincingly fake raytracing effects very, very well these days.

As far as games or any other realtime 3D media goes, there are areas where rasterizing is strong that raytracing is inherently weak, and vice versa. Something that one struggles with the other can handle no problem. Together, they could complement each other fairly well, potentially leading to better effects and more realistic worlds without as much overhead.
 

DrNeroCF

macrumors 6502
Sep 2, 2004
276
0
Er? No one's questioning that a mobile chip claims to be able to effectively use raytracing, yet we have no real time raytracing engines in any released game, even with OpenCL, CUDA, DirectX Compute Shaders, and CPUs with 8 and up cores?
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,100
2,440
OBX

chrmjenkins

macrumors 603
Oct 29, 2007
5,325
158
MD
I find it interesting that the cards in the link have 4-16GB of ram on them in order to do the ray tracing real time. Wouldn't that imply that Apple would have to have gobs of RAM in their devices? And what happened to Ray Tracing takes less RAM than rasterization?

Did anyone see John Carmack douse water on the idea of using Ray Tracing for games?

I assume those cards are intended to render 1080P and beyond ray-tracing. I doubt the first mobile implementations would be native resolution.

Also, Carmack likes the Caustic solution [1][2].
 

Doc C

macrumors regular
Nov 5, 2013
236
187
Apple is preparing for new IOS 8 home screen with more perpective and lense flare effects. Do not worry, it will be magical. (Some people may suffer minor sea sickness.)


Does anyone really care about a seizure or two?

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Wait. What benefit would this be to me?

Is this just a way to make games look better?

I wonder if this could also be brought to things like mapping, VR, medical applications, architecture, etc (I've given up most gaming as even my 7 year old embarrasses me now.)
 
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