Future Shop Experience

[kixsand]

I was in the Future Shop near my home on Sunday. I was looking for a USB hub and happened to overhear a salesperson speaking with a nice couple about the 24" iMac.

They were asking him about getting 3 gb of ram in it. He was telling them "No problem...we do it here...much cheaper than ordering from Apple."

Now, I didn't really have a problem with Future Shop doing Ram upgrades but it struck me that if these people were looking to go with 3 gb of ram it was likely that they would want some of the other upgrades that Future Shop wouldn't be able to do.

So...I stuck my nose in and suggested that if they were power users they might want to take a look at all of the upgrade options for the iMac...larger hard drive, faster processor, better Video card because those were upgrades that Future Shop wouldn't be able to perform for them. The sales guy actually tried to contradict what I was telling them saying that there was no option to upgrade the video card. I explained to the sales guy and the couple that the base card in the 24"iMac was the 128mb 7300 Gt but that they could upgrade that to the 7600 Gt with double the memory if they thought that they would need it.

The sales guy backed down, the customers thanked me for the information and left and then the sales guy freaked out on me...said that I ruined his sale. I told the guy that I didn't care what he thought and that I just wanted to make sure that the couple had all of the correct information before they dropped a lot of money on a computer that is is most respects not upgradeable after point of sale.

I don't think he saw my point.

darren

 

[murfle]

I was in the Future Shop near my home on Sunday. I was looking for a USB hub and happened to overhear a salesperson speaking with a nice couple about the 24" iMac.

They were asking him about getting 3 gb of ram in it. He was telling them "No problem...we do it here...much cheaper than ordering from Apple."

Now, I didn't really have a problem with Future Shop doing Ram upgrades but it struck me that if these people were looking to go with 3 gb of ram it was likely that they would want some of the other upgrades that Future Shop wouldn't be able to do.

So...I stuck my nose in and suggested that if they were power users they might want to take a look at all of the upgrade options for the iMac...larger hard drive, faster processor, better Video card because those were upgrades that Future Shop wouldn't be able to perform for them. The sales guy actually tried to contradict what I was telling them saying that there was no option to upgrade the video card. I explained to the sales guy and the couple that the base card in the 24"iMac was the 128mb 7300 Gt but that they could upgrade that to the 7600 Gt with double the memory if they thought that they would need it.

The sales guy backed down, the customers thanked me for the information and left and then the sales guy freaked out on me...said that I ruined his sale. I told the guy that I didn't care what he thought and that I just wanted to make sure that the couple had all of the correct information before they dropped a lot of money on a computer that is is most respects not upgradeable after point of sale.

BRAVO! I've done this on a few occasions myself...

I don't think he saw my point.

Of course he didn't... It wasn't lined with dollar signs

 

[spicyapple]

Usually, I try not to piss in another person's rice bowl.

 

[heehee]

This is why you go to Best Buy, "no commission" associates.

 

[CanadaRAM]

So...I stuck my nose in and suggested that if they were power users they might want to take a look at all of the upgrade options for the iMac...larger hard drive, faster processor, better Video card because those were upgrades that Future Shop wouldn't be able to perform for them.

Simple. You were wrong.

You had no particular knowledge about the peoples requirements but you did go out of your way to spoil their purchase (and incidentally force the salesperson who WAS helping them, to waste his time).

The customers were in the store of their own choice to purchase a Mac, and you ensured that they didn't.

Well done.

 

[xfiftyfour]

Simple. You were wrong.

You had no particular knowledge about the peoples requirements but you did go out of your way to spoil their purchase (and incidentally force the salesperson who WAS helping them, to waste his time).

The customers were in the store of their own choice to purchase a Mac, and you ensured that they didn't.

Well done.

I have to agree. You stuck your nose where it didn't belong.

 

[murfle]

Simple. You were wrong.

You had no particular knowledge about the peoples requirements but you did go out of your way to spoil their purchase (and incidentally force the salesperson who WAS helping them, to waste his time).

The customers were in the store of their own choice to purchase a Mac, and you ensured that they didn't.

Well done.

The fact that they left makes it seem they want to consider their options (that they didn't know were available)... If they decide they don't need more hard drive space, a higher end video card, whatever, they can go back to the same store...

I just hope they pick it up off the shelf and take it to the front instead of giving commission to the blood sucking sales guy.

 

[shecky]

Simple. You were wrong.

I have to agree. You stuck your nose where it didn't belong.

thirded. when i worked at a compusa back in the day, i would usually tell people like you that i do not come to your job and tell you how to do it in front of your customers, so please extend me the same courtesy. then i would ask you to kindly take your business elsewhere.

 

[Keebler]

well, i think this is a tough call.

on one hand, you did interrupt when you weren't asked and at times, this can be annoying as hell.

BUT, i believe there is a fine line between helping someone (customer) who doesn't know everything they can know and not helping - doesn't mean they should know everything, but when there's a lack of knowledge that can hurt later on...that's an issue. also, if the sales rep wasn't providing all the information, then that's not right either. perhaps the sales rep was going to get into all the options - is FShop allowed to order bto macs? maybe he was about to get into it with them.

as for him freaking, i don't blame him b/c they are on commission. of course, FShop makes the vast majority of their money off the PSP (product service plans) or extended warranty.

sitting on the fence,
keebler

 

[CanadaRAM]

I just hope they pick it up off the shelf and take it to the front instead of giving commission to the blood sucking sales guy.

Why?
Aren't you the person who complains when you WANT help and the store has nobody on the floor to help you?

You seem to miss the point that the FS salesperson was doing the right thing -- selling the people the iMac they came in for, instead of switching them to an HP or EMachines PC that he could have made twice the commission on.

The fact they left is evidence only that the OP introduced a FUD* factor, and confused them.

To the OP: I presume that before you recommended the 256 Mb card, you had done an interview with the customers, and determined that they were heavy users of Final Cut Studio and 3-D rendering and were planning to be avid gamers, right? If not, WTF are you recommending spending money on the 256 card, making them go BTO on a machine (which limits their return ability)?

You have also ensured that another salesperson has the chance to convince them that a Sony Vaio Media Centre computer is the real deal in the next store they go into, and they could end up Windows owners.


(*Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt, a tactic used when in the absence of a compelling reason, the protaganist induces the customer to doubt their own decision to go with a competitor's product. Usually accomplished with selective information and innuendo which may or may not be germane to the purchase decision.

Classic example: "Why would you consider a Macintosh when there are only 1/10th the number of software programs available for that platform?")

 

[kwood]

I have to agree with most of the other people in this thread. You stepped into a conversation without knowing the customers needs. It seems that you already had a grudge against Future shop and it made it worse when he said he could upgrade it cheaper then Apple could.

Also the graphics card is upgradeable in the 24 inch iMac. Its not part of the logic board but it is on a PCI Express slot (not a traditional one). If the customer decided they needed more video power in the future they could get it upgraded at an Apple Store.

Plus hard drive space can always be added through external drives. Most people (that I know at least) wont fill up a 250 GB hard drive. The only people I know who who can do this are business professionals (like video editors) and people who use their computer as their primary entertainment center.

You did not ask the customer what they were, so providing these additional options simply would confuse them if they did not know a lot about computers.

The Future Shop sales rep had every right to freak out on you. You were out of line.

 

[waynergy]

This is why you go to Best Buy, "no commission" associates.

Best Buy owns Futureshop.

I overheard a Best Buy salesperson told a customer who's interested in getting a Dell that all components in Dell must be from Dell, OEM HD/video card/RAM won't be compatible with Dell, which made upgrades difficult. -- It's bulls*it!

 

[murfle]

Why?
Aren't you the person who complains when you WANT help and the store has nobody on the floor to help you?

Where did you get that idea? I only complain when salesguys follow me from another department to try and sell me what I'm already picking up off the shelf/floor/wherever...

You seem to miss the point that the FS salesperson was doing the right thing -- selling the people the iMac they came in for, instead of switching them to an HP or EMachines PC that he could have made twice the commission on.

[snip]

To the OP: I presume that before you recommended the 256 Mb card, you had done an interview with the customers, and determined that they were heavy users of Final Cut Studio and 3-D rendering and were planning to be avid gamers, right? If not, WTF are you recommending spending money on the 256 card, making them go BTO on a machine (which limits their return ability)?

This is true... I would not expect a salesperson to say "Are you planning on using <GPU intensive app> on this machine? If so, you should really order from apple's website (BTO)"... Sure, someone sticking their nose in didn't ask either, but he provided more information than the sales guy ever would...
Keep in mind, the couple came in looking for the 24" by the sounds of things... sales guys love easy sales... If they'd hum and haw about it, they might have gotten the 'go with HP' routine...
And how do you know there's more commission? I'll tell you how... Look on their price tags (unless they've changed things). Theres a numbering scheme...
####x##, for example... 0012R45
Thats $12.45 commission. (not including extended warranty)

I have only ever once met a future shop salesman who's actually cared about providing the customers needs... He gave awesome deals.... If someone said they didn't want an extended warrenty, he didn't pressure. That's the kind of sales person I can actually deal with.
Yup, he got canned after a few weeks. (He was a good friend of mine)...

Another friend of mine (we'd been friends since grade 5, and into our mid twenties), he would never knock budge on a ticket price, unless it was a price match... I've told him time and again I'd deck him (outside of his job) if he tried pushing his extended warranty on me. He used the "They make me ask or I get in trouble, do you want extended warranty?" if I ever did get something off him...

I have endless stories of how bad the salespeople are there (and a lot of other places too).

I've stuck my nose in on a few sales pitches that were complete lies. The people were very grateful for my input, and the sales guy was extremely P.O.'d.

is FShop allowed to order bto macs? maybe he was about to get into it with them.

The sales guy actually tried to contradict what I was telling them saying that there was no option to upgrade the video card.

'Nuff said...

when i worked at a compusa back in the day, i would usually tell people like you that i do not come to your job and tell you how to do it in front of your customers, so please extend me the same courtesy

Hmmm, he wasn't telling anyone how to do their job, he was providing the salesguys customer with information.
If you want to provide my customers with information that I'm not giving them (whether intentional or out of ignorance), please do! I want my customers to be happy! That's what customer service is about.
I have told customers if they'd be happier with another company, they should! Commission based sales doesn't work that way.

 

[generationxwing]

Yeah, that was pretty uncalled for. I hate future shop - with a passion - but it would piss me off if some nerd just came up and butted into my conversation. Way to go.

 

[Make7UPYours]

I was in the Future Shop near my home on Sunday. I was looking for a USB hub and happened to overhear a salesperson speaking with a nice couple about the 24" iMac.

They were asking him about getting 3 gb of ram in it. He was telling them "No problem...we do it here...much cheaper than ordering from Apple."

Now, I didn't really have a problem with Future Shop doing Ram upgrades but it struck me that if these people were looking to go with 3 gb of ram it was likely that they would want some of the other upgrades that Future Shop wouldn't be able to do.

So...I stuck my nose in and suggested that if they were power users they might want to take a look at all of the upgrade options for the iMac...larger hard drive, faster processor, better Video card because those were upgrades that Future Shop wouldn't be able to perform for them. The sales guy actually tried to contradict what I was telling them saying that there was no option to upgrade the video card. I explained to the sales guy and the couple that the base card in the 24"iMac was the 128mb 7300 Gt but that they could upgrade that to the 7600 Gt with double the memory if they thought that they would need it.

The sales guy backed down, the customers thanked me for the information and left and then the sales guy freaked out on me...said that I ruined his sale. I told the guy that I didn't care what he thought and that I just wanted to make sure that the couple had all of the correct information before they dropped a lot of money on a computer that is is most respects not upgradeable after point of sale.

I don't think he saw my point.

darren

Well... I don't know... reading this kind of ticked me off .. Being a person in sales and commision I think that I am kind of biased but I see you're point, nevertheless, the guy is trying to earn a living and it's not like the iMac wasn't a bad choice, and im sure all the specs on the iMac were MORE then enough for a couple that was basically ''shopping around'' therefore, I think that what you thought as doing a service, was actually more of a disturbance.... but like i said.. im sort of biased.

 

[funkandamis]

Although neither Kixsand nor the salesrep acted wholly ethically, at least Kixsand didn't lie. As many of you have noted, Kixsand should have inquired about the customer's need before suggesting a faster video card. Most people don't need it. His heart, however, was in the right place. I can tell you that if I were about to drop roughly $2000 on something, I would at least like to know all of my options. However, the customers probably aren't Power Users because let's be honest, what percentage of power users would be buying an iMac from futureshop?

The salesrep had two very good points that should have been strong enough to make the sale despite Kixsand's interruption.

#1. The RAM upgrade is cheaper at FutureShop (on a side note, I haven't confirmed that this is true).
#2. Simply ask the customer if they do heavy video editing or gaming

If the customer answered Yes to #2 and the salesrep had their best interest in mind, he would have recommended another PC or at least let them leave and gather more information. I think I can speak for all of you in saying that an honest salesrep makes any shopping experience much better. Part of the perceived dishonesty that a large chain like FutureShop gets is due to the actions of its employees.

If, however, the customer answered No to #2 - that they only need email, web browsing, word processing, etc - then the salesrep should have been able to salvage the sale and make his commission.

I understand the opinions of the other salesreps in this thread, however, the "he was only trying to make a living" defense is simply selfish. Assuming the customer was a heavy video editor and really could have used the extra VRAM, would any of you have wanted the same treatment if you or your friend were the customer in this situation? Better yet, what if you were the salesrep, would you honestly scam your friend who loves gaming for $12.45 (or whatever it is in this case)?

 

[CanadaRAM]

#1. The RAM upgrade is cheaper at FutureShop (on a side note, I haven't confirmed that this is true).
#2. Simply ask the customer if they do heavy video editing or gaming

I understand the opinions of the other salesreps in this thread, however, the "he was only trying to make a living" defense is simply selfish. Assuming the customer was a heavy video editor and really could have used the extra VRAM, would any of you have wanted the same treatment if you or your friend were the customer in this situation? Better yet, what if you were the salesrep, would you honestly scam your friend who loves gaming for $12.45 (or whatever it is in this case)?

And how are we to assume that the salesrep HADN'T already asked the customers what their use was, and had received an answer, before the OP jumped in and authoritatively told the customers that they needed something that he didn't know they needed?

 

[kixsand]

Wow...I didn't think my comments would receive the interest that they have. And, I really didn't think that everyone would be on the side of the FS salesperson...interesting.

First of all...I have been a commissioned salesperson for much of my life. I'm the General Manager of a Volvo dealership in Toronto now but much of my career has been selling luxury cars -- an industry much maligned for being ethically slaked...much of it deserved. I have no respect for anyone in sales that would take advantage of a customer's ignorance to make a sale. I wouldn't do it when I was on the floor and I wouldn't accept it from one of my sales people as a manager today. I am of the opinion that a sales consultant that truly acts in the best interest of the people he serves will generate much more business in the long run with repeat business and referrals.

Also, I think it is important to point out that I wasn't trying to shut down the sale...I was really just trying to make sure that the couple new what their buying options were. In fact, I asked the sales person it they worked with Apple to do custom orders for their clientele...I just purchased a 24" iMac myself and did exactly that...it felt good to give the business to a local store so they did the custom order for me and I picked up the computer from them.

So...I wasn't the geek sticking his nose into a place it didn't belong so that I could show off my knowledge of computers...I was merely an interested bystander that saw something going on that I found to be distasteful...I couldn't have stood by and watched those people make a $3000 mistake.

I would love to continue this debate though...

Please tell me what you think of my clarifying response.

darren

 

[Cult Follower]

I think you did what was right, when spending that much money on something you want to have all the information.

 

[CanadaRAM]

kixsand is a sales professional

OK then, you're just about to close a deal on an in stock Volvo you have on your lot, the colour is right, the options are right and the customer has just asked if they can get the dealer installed undercoating package.

I butt into the conversation and point out that if they wanted the undercoating, then they should know there is a turbocharged version of the same car that goes faster, but it's a factory order and can't be delivered for weeks or months. After challenging you that the dealership could or should special order this, I convince the customers that they should reconsider and wait to make their purchase. They leave. Maybe they come back to get the same unit they were looking at, maybe they order the turbo unit, maybe they visit an Acura dealership and drive away with a different car.

I then accuse you of not providing sufficient information to your customer and say I was only helping.


In this situation -- You had no basis to conclude the salesrep was lying or 'taking advantage of the customer's ignorance" because you don't know the foregoing conversation he had with them AND you didn't establish their real needs yourself. What you did do was introduce FUD and scare the customers off the machine that they had already chosen.

If that had been one of my sales reps, the first question they would have asked the customer would have been "What sort of things are you planning to use the computer for?".

 

[kixsand]

Just a bit more...for further clarification.

The thing that got me in the middle of these people and their sales person in the first place was a discussion they were having about ram. The couple was asking how much it was to upgrade to 3 gb of ram. The sales person was telling them that Apple would charge over $200 for it while they could do it for $155 or something like that.

So...I entered the conversation with the assumption that the sales consultant didn't really know what he was talking about. My first words were...

"Actually, I think Apple charges something like $900 to go to 3 gb of ram, you must be thinking of the upgrade from 1 to 2 gb."

I then proceeded to tell them how I had come to the conclusion that unless you were a pro software user it would likely be much cheaper to make the upgrade from 2 gb of ram to 3gb sometime in the future when prices come down."

So that's how I ended up in the conversation.

 

[emaja]

Also, I think it is important to point out that I wasn't trying to shut down the sale...I was really just trying to make sure that the couple new what their buying options were.

If I came into your dealership and discussed "buying options" with your customers, I'd bet you would escort me out. Knowing that you are in sales yourself makes what you did even worse. You have no idea what was or what was not discussed and yet you had no problem butting in.

I am not a fan of slimy salespeople either, but the FS employee had a much longer conversation with that customer than you did. You have no idea what happened, yet you had no problem making recommendations.

You were way out of line. I agree with CanadaRAM that you did them a disservice by butting in.

 

[kixsand]

If I came into your dealership and discussed "buying options" with your customers, I'd bet you would escort me out. Knowing that you are in sales yourself makes what you did even worse. You have no idea what was or what was not discussed and yet you had no problem butting in.

I am not a fan of slimy salespeople either, but the FS employee had a much longer conversation with that customer than you did. You have no idea what happened, yet you had no problem making recommendations.

You were way out of line. I agree with CanadaRAM that you did them a disservice by butting in.

I respectfully disagree.

Knowledge is never a bad thing. If the sales consultant had been doing his job properly he could have easily dealt with my presence..."We already talked about your needs and determined that this computer has more than enough power to accomodate your usage requirements."

Instead he had misinformed them on the cost of upgrading ram. He would have told them that there were no other video card options available for that computer as he went on to tell me later in the conversation. He even threatened to prove it to me by going to the Apple website.

Had the consultant been dealing with these people honestly and informatively he could have used my presence as an aid to selling the couple a computer -- you couldn't have found a bigger mac fan in the building...just bought a 24"iMac 2 weeks ago.

You are right though...I didn't take the time to go into the couple's needs. Instead I made the assumption that since they wanted 3 gb of ram that they would also want to know about some of the other upgrades available to them.

Darren

 

[fistful]

I think people don't agree with the way the situation was handled because the salesperson was not giving the customer erroneous information. Futureshop being able to up the RAM cheaper than Apple is no doubt true. He may have been incorrect that there were no GPU bto options available from Apple's site but honestly how would he know this fact based on the models the store carries (presumably stock with in store RAM or HDD upgrade options). I'd personally never interrupt a salesperson dealing with a customer but I could see it being acceptable to step in if he had told them there were no GPU upgrade available after being asked specifically if the option was there.

 

[kixsand]

OK then, you're just about to close a deal on an in stock Volvo you have on your lot, the colour is right, the options are right and the customer has just asked if they can get the dealer installed undercoating package.

I butt into the conversation and point out that if they wanted the undercoating, then they should know there is a turbocharged version of the same car that goes faster, but it's a factory order and can't be delivered for weeks or months. After challenging you that the dealership could or should special order this, I convince the customers that they should reconsider and wait to make their purchase. They leave. Maybe they come back to get the same unit they were looking at, maybe they order the turbo unit, maybe they visit an Acura dealership and drive away with a different car.

I then accuse you of not providing sufficient information to your customer and say I was only helping.


In this situation -- You had no basis to conclude the salesrep was lying or 'taking advantage of the customer's ignorance" because you don't know the foregoing conversation he had with them AND you didn't establish their real needs yourself. What you did do was introduce FUD and scare the customers off the machine that they had already chosen.

If that had been one of my sales reps, the first question they would have asked the customer would have been "What sort of things are you planning to use the computer for?".

I'm not sure that I follow your line of logic with this analogy ...but...

If I lost a sale due to shoddy product knowledge then I deserve to lose the sale.

If I lose a sale because I tried to deny a customer information so that I could sell a car out of stock then that is a gamble that I freely took and a risk that I found acceptable at the time. I already decided to put my credibility on the line by going down that road in the first place.

My opinion.

Darren