G4 400 Graphics Card Help

[edneeves]

I’ve pulled my old music studio out of mothballs as my young daughter is keen on music and wanted to have a go at it all. Will be a fun journey playing around with sample and synths.

I had it all temporarily connected and it all seemed to work, if not a bit slow. I was using a VGA cable to connect to an HP flat screen and other than some minor ghosting, it was working fine (waaay better than an old CRT for sure!).

Trouble I’m having though is that now it won’t trigger the screen. Auto trigger is working, but it won’t work. Have 2 screens and the same on both. Checked the continuity on the new cable and that’s all fine too.

I’m going to strip the tower this weekend, clean out some dust and deoxit some connectors in the hole that it starts working again.

Any recommendations on what to check? The tower chimes and sounds like it’s booted. So I suspect just a graphics problem.

I’d consider a new graphics card if I have to, but that’s a massive confusing journey in itself. Trying to find options for dual screens and have found it impossible to navigate what works without spending silly money.

For now just 1 screen would be nice

 

[davisdelo]

Do you know what OS is on the machine? You could have simple resolution mismatch happening that's not resolving itself. First thing to always try with these sort of issues is a few good PRAM reset cycles, hold down Command/Option/P/R at boot. Some machines are pretty picky about having a good PRAM battery as well, make sure it's a new one. Also, if you could let us know if this is a PCI, AGP or Gigabit G4 that would help with hardware recommendations. Hopefully it's just a software fix

 

[edneeves]

It’s a graphite model and I believe 400ghz. Not sure if it’s AGP or gigabit. How do I identify between those 2? It’s running OSX but I can’t tell you which version without turning it on and opening the info screen.

I assume the PRAM battery is the green thing in this pic? If that’s the case mine will be 20 years old, so let me find a replacement for that asap!

This is the rest of the machine and back if that’s helps with the model (do I assume it’s a gigabit model based on the Ethernet and FireWire connections)?:

 

[edneeves]

Battery acquired. Will try the reset when I get home. Might also take the time now to clean the insides. Quite a bit of dust in the fans. Plus something makes a noise (I assume one of the fans), so I’d like to fix that too.

 

[GMShadow]

EMC#1856 is a Gigabit model.

After replacing the battery, if it's still not working. I would try removing the video card and reseating it - sometimes contacts get touchy. If that doesn't work, the PMU/CUDA reset button is on the logic board just north of where the battery is in your pic. Disconnect the power, press the button once, wait 10 seconds, then reconnect power and see if it behaves. I had a Sawtooth years ago that was finicky for a while until I did that.

 

[edneeves]

Thanks for the help, will get home in an hour or so, will carefully clean out some dust, do some tactical contact cleaning and then install the battery and try these steps.

Finger crossed.

 

[edneeves]

Cleaned the machine of dust, pulled the boards and cleaned them and the connectors/sockets. Put the battery in and did the PRAM reset (4 chimes).

Not turning on the monitor still.

Pulled the power and tried the PMU button. Still nothing.

Oddly now I get 2 chimes every time I turn the power on. Does that indicate a new problem?

Edit: unplugged, pulled the RAM, reinserted and now back to 1 chime. No screen still though unfortunately.

 

[edneeves]

Playing around with the VGA cable, if I unplug it, the monitor wakes up. No picture but it comes out of sleep.

Does that indicate anything or just sensing the removal of the cable? I tested the pins on the cable for continuity, but don’t have a different cable here to try instead.

I’m thinking I’ll go a grab a better quality cable tomorrow to at least rule out a simple potential solution.

 

[davisdelo]

Cables definitely go bad, I wouldn't be shocked if that was the issue. Is there another monitor you can try as well? It could just not be playing nice with that particular screen. One thing to also check out, turn off any power saving features on the monitor, it may be waiting for a wake-up signal that is never provided.

 

[edneeves]

It’s actually a brand new cable but I can’t say it’s a high quality one, so fingers crossed that’s the issue. I’ll at least buy a new one today and eliminate that as a cause. It worked once though so that’s weird as I know the set up can make pictures.

All the power saving features have been adjusted and I have another screen here that does the exact same thing. So the problem definitely appears to be before the screen.

Fingers crossed it’s as simple as a bad cable. If that doesn’t work I assume I am likely left with a bad graphics card?

 

[edneeves]

Got a new cable and unfortunately same result. No display.

Is it safe to assume at this point the graphics card has gone bad?

What options do I have now?

1. Find a dual screen card I can make work in the AGP slot
2. Find an OEM card, get it working and look for a second card later?

I’d prefer option 1 if it’s possible.

Would something like this allow for dual screens? I’d need DVI to VGA connectors but that seems like the easy part.

Apple ATI Radeon 9600XT 109-A58503-20 DVI Video Graphics Card | eBay

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Or I assume this is an OEM card that would drop straight in? I assume I’d need a screen to install any drivers if that was required with a new card.

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<p>Apple PowerMac G4 ATI Rage 128 Pro 16MB AGP Video Card OEM 661-2330 630-3500. </p><br /><p>Excellent condition - tested working in a compatible system. </p><br /><p>Any questions please ask. </p><br /><p>Thanks for looking!</p>

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[drsal]

I have a similar Sawtooth G4/400 and had some issues connecting my Radeon Mac Edition through a HDMI-DVI converter.

Fortunately I had set up a VNC so I changed the resolution to 640x480 and the monitor recognised the connection.

 

[edneeves]

Can I ask for some curveball advice? Should I continue down the path of trying to fix my G4 or is there a more cost effective alternative that would work better in the end?

For example: I can see a dual processor 2.8ghz Mac Pro for sale near me that is about the cost of a replacement graphics card (cheap).

Would it be better for me to instead drop the G4 and instead try and set the studio up for the Pro?

My potential challenges would be:

1. My audio card won’t work on the Pro so I’d have to update that. But that’s only $150 (I think it uses FireWire and not a special card to run)
2. I’m running Logic Pro 7 which works on OSX, I assume I can find an installer for that and just put in on a clean install?
3. If logic 7 only works on older OSX? I assume I can go backwards on the OS to allow for that?
4. The machine only has 1 output for graphics? Are Pro’s dual displays an option and are those cards easier to find?
5. All my music files are on a separate drive in the G4, is that something I can unplug and move right over to a different machine?

 

[edneeves]

I pulled the trigger on the Pro. It was cheap enough that even if I can’t get it working, it’s not the end of the world.

The potential performance is staggering if I can make it work, just need to grab an adapter to run the monitor and I will have a go at downgrading the OS to Leopard.

Then I’ll have a go at installing Logic Pro 7 and pulling my music hard drive from the G4 and hopefully installing it in the pro.

I also need to grab a new audio interface but plan on a FireWire option, so hopefully an easy set up.

 

[davisdelo]

I pulled the trigger on the Pro. It was cheap enough that even if I can’t get it working, it’s not the end of the world.

The potential performance is staggering if I can make it work, just need to grab an adapter to run the monitor and I will have a go at downgrading the OS to Leopard.

Then I’ll have a go at installing Logic Pro 7 and pulling my music hard drive from the G4 and hopefully installing it in the pro.

I also need to grab a new audio interface but plan on a FireWire option, so hopefully an easy set up.

I can't argue against a Mac Pro, they're great machines. I'm not sure you're going to be able to throw the G4 drive in it though, I believe they're 100% SATA and your G4 is IDE. Maybe the optical drive on the Pro is still IDE (I know the G5 is configured this way). I'd suggest booting into Target Disk Mode on the G4 for the file transfer, seems like the simplest solution to me.

Firewire interfaces are dirt cheap now too, they should be a good match to Logic (there's plenty of versions on the garden you can choose between). Most of them don't require any type of driver too, so that's nice.

 

[schorschinjo]

Even if it's likely too late for the G4, but if you want to give it another try...

I had similar problems with my 400MHz AGP G4 yesterday. It did not show any video on the monitor, but I was even able to hear that it booted to the desktop. No way was I able to enter the boot selector (or at least I could not see that I did).
After fumbling and trying for an hour, I chucked in a 10.4 boot CD and with it, the video appeared. I was able to select a boot drive and restart into the hard drive. Video was displayed from then on.

Maybe you want to give it another try...

 

[edneeves]

With target disc mode on the G4, would that allow me to see the drives on the Pro without needing to fix the screen issue?

I could then go a buy another drive for the Pro and transfer the audio files from it. Not worried about keeping the drive, just need all the samples. The samples are on a second disc to the OS and only have sound files on them.

 

[mectojic]

Hi @edneeves , thanks for buying my 3,1 Mac Pro! Good luck with your setup.

Are you saying that you have files you need on a hard drive on your G4? If so, and you can't view them on the G4 it might be easiest to get a USB/IDE adapter, like this one:

SATA/PATA/IDE to USB 2.0 Adapter Converter Cable for 2.5 3.5'' Hard Drive Disk | eBay Australia

Connected storage devices: SATA interface, 44 pin IDE interface, 80 pin IDE line interface (compatible with 40 pin IDE interface). 2.5" 44 pin IDE laptop hard drive. 3.5" 40 or 80 pin IDE desktop hard drive.

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Target disc mode might work, but I haven't tried it between PowerPC and Intel. You would need a Firewire cable, naturally, and the Mac Pro 3,1 has FW 400 and 800.

 

[edneeves]

Oh for $8 I’ll just buy that. That’s way easier. Thanks for the tip.

Then I’ll just look for another SSD for the Pro and move the files over to that.

I grabbed all the necessary cables on way back from school drop off. So excited to fire it up tonight and see if I can roll back the OS to 10.5

 

[mectojic]

Oh for $8 I’ll just buy that. That’s way easier. Thanks for the tip.

Then I’ll just look for another SSD for the Pro and move the files over to that.

I grabbed all the necessary cables on way back from school drop off. So excited to fire it up tonight and see if I can roll back the OS to 10.5

The Pro came with an SSD already, if you wanted to use that one and don't need 10.13.

Rolling back the OS to 10.5 will require an install media USB. You could make the 10.5 installer through 10.13 before wiping the drive. Good luck.

Also with that $8 adapter, it should work fine, but you still need to power the hard drive. You may have an awkward solution of powering the drive using the power from the G4, but the IDE connection would be through the USB.

 

[edneeves]

With 10.5 is that something I’d do via restore system or i’d need to find all the files online and put them on a external drive?

 

[mectojic]

With 10.5 is that something I’d do via restore system or i’d need to find all the files online and put them on a external drive?

You can't restore back that early. You need to get either a real Install DVD, or burn an Install DVD yourself using the Internet Archive. Or you can make a bootable USB.
If it's all too complicated, feel free to drop by again and I could burn you a USB installer or DVD install disc.

 

[edneeves]

Let me try going back as far as I can on the 3,1 and see if Logic works. If not I might reach out.

 

[edneeves]

Can I check in and make sure that this is the process I should be following:

How to Clean Install Mac OS using a USB drive on Mac - ISORIVER

Upgrading your Macbook is a very easy task if you are already running a previous version of Mac OS X. You just need to download the new OS Installer from the App Store and after that, it’s just like a normal installer setup. But the problem comes, when your Mac OS got corrupted and you […]

isoriver.com

 

[edneeves]

Think I’m calling it a night. I managed the easy stuff. Got dual screens working, downloaded a version of OS 10.5 and now doing my best to create a usb boot file. But it’s not working.
Keeps saying command not found.

I thought Terminal might not have access to change the computer but I fixed that. Definitely on admin profile.

Will sit on it overnight and try again tomorrow.