G4 PowerBooks Next

[P-Worm]

Wow, the rumors have picked up right where they left off, even after the big day.

But right now, G5s seem hard pressed to find themselves in laptops. Did you see what they had to do to keep the new PowerMacs under heat control? Taking care of that in a laptop would be something too incredible for me to handle.

P-Worm

 

[freundt]

Problem:
Who would buy a G4 laptop, knowing that a 970 version will most likely come out in 6 months?

I mean, if we were talking about a simple speed increase, fine. I can see buying a G4 now. But we are talking about a whole new architecture - better memeory, better buss speeds, better ..well, everything. (and by better, I mean super advanced better - Extrodinairly better)

So.. explain to me why would I get excited about a G4 speed bump? Sorry, the Distortion field only works so well.....

_f

 

[KLFloyd]

I too would like to see a G5 in the PowerBooks. But the reality is they just run too damn hot to put in a laptop right now. Hopefully within the next year to 18 months, which is about my timeframe for updating.

I'd love to go out and buy a new G5 machine, unfortunately as someone who's getting ready to start law school and make their first down-payment on a house I just can't afford to do that. So then I thought about the possibility of buying a G5 iMac when they come out next, and just keeping my old Powerbook, but then it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to go back and fourth between computers. If only Apple would bring back some kind of docking station.

So, I'll wait and I'll save and hopefully we'll see the speedy new G5s in PowerBooks in the near future, until then my 500mhz G4 will just have to do for now. It's served me well and hopefuly will continue to do so for many years to come.

Who knows, maybe between now and then I'll win the lotto and go on an Apple Shopping Spree.

 

[Abstract]

Originally posted by DTphonehome
I think that its reasonable to see G4 iBooks in the near future. Perhaps they will bring the 17" and 15" up to speed with 1.42 Ghz models, a 12" in 1Ghz, all three with L3 cache. The iBooks could have 867-1Ghz G4s with no L3, No slot load, and in 12" and 14" varieties. They could also have lower RAM ceilings. I think there's definitly potential for the G4 in the "pro" and "consumer" laptops, just like the G4 PowerMac and G4 iMac coexisted for a long time.

Originally posted by avus

I knew that they couldn't introduce the PowerBook G4 15' alongside the G5 by 11/2 hour mark at the keynote - it was one long keynote, anyway. I still hope that it would sport a new 7457 processor so it would be cooler and quieter....

Good point, but instead of a 1.25GHz G4 in the PB's and an 867GHz or 1GHz in the iBook, why couldn't they use a 7457 processor in a new PB? Just because the guy said that Motorola is in Apple's future, it doesn't mean that G4's are going to be in the PB for any longer. In his quote, he did NOT associate the G4 with the PB. He only associated Apple with the G4 and Motorola. The G4 is still being used by Apple --- that's probably what was meant. So the 7457 may go into the Powerbook and the G4 may go into the iBook. This would not contradict the quote, either.

W3rd.

 

[the-gator]

this was the case when apple introduced the G4 tower (september 1999), the powerbook remained G3 right through until january 2001! looks like we could be in for quite a wait.

 

[jouster]

Never mind MacWhispers feeding us a load of Horse****, what about Apple?

Hmmmm..

The year of the laptop so far:

Laptops -

- slight speed bumps
- The 12" and 17" which, while nice and mildly innovative, are hardly exactly a quantum leap.

Towers -

- An order of magnitude change in virtually every aspect.

Not that I'm in any way complaining about the G5 - it sounds awesome - but I think that Jobs's announcement about the YOTL shows that either (a) We read far too much into off the cuff statements or (b) There is no point in trying to analyze what he says because he doesn't mean anything unless he is actually announcing a product.

Hmmm......then what will we talk about?

 

[stompy]

Originally posted by greenstork
This is weak, in my opinon. I was holding out for a 15" AlBook with a G5 but I would never want another G4. I have an easy bake oven at home already (MDD).

Future G4s (2nd half of this year) should consume much less power than the version in the PowerMac MDD, not to mention the first rev G5 (970).

I guess I expected Apple really sieze this opportunity to surpass Wintel in terms of hardware technology. I should know to be more guarded in my optimism since historically Apple has failed to take this last baby step.

Megahertz myth notwithstanding, with Centrino laptops at 1.2 GHz or so, Apple laptops now look pretty good (to Joe Schmoe) compared to PC laptops. Just MHO, but I'd think Apple was actually relieved when Centrino came out. Apple could catch up to Intel (again, in the average consumers eyes) by shipping a faster G4 PB.

Apple has failed to take this last baby step.

I wouldn't characterize the engineering of a laptop based on a new processor a baby step.

 

[Sun Baked]

Going by when Motorola "says" a processor is available to the rest of the world and when Apple gets their hand on shippable quantities -- the 7457 should be darn close.

The 7457 should allow a 1GHz bottom end and 1.3GHz top end (or 1.25GHz) -- though this all depends on how much Apple wants to crank them up.

 

[Stella]

He did announce a product at that time:

- he refers the 12" G4 as the worlds smallest full featured notebook, and,

- the 17" the world's largest laptop.

I think we read far too much into his statement.

Apple create the largest, and smallest portable personal computers, hence, "the year of the laptop".

By what I've read of the 7457 - it'll be coming later this year, perhaps too late to be used in laptops - this year.

Originally posted by jouster
There is no point in trying to analyze what he says because he doesn't mean anything unless he is actually announcing a product.

 

[the_wallcrawler]

Originally posted by freundt
Problem:
Who would buy a G4 laptop, knowing that a 970 version will most likely come out in 6 months?

not everyone knows that new ones will be out soon. i bought my tibook 400 3 days before the 550 and whatever else ones there were came out. not everyone reads rumor sites.

 

[arn]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Oh goody! More over-heating speedbumped Powerbooks! Wow!

Here are my thoughts:
1. Greg Joswiak may not be telling the truth (there are supposed "Lower Power" 1.2 and 1.4 GHz 970s out there).

Holding out hope?

arn

 

[prechrchet]

G5 upgrade

I recently saw an article detailing a "No Mac Left Behind" program by Apple. In this program, Apple is selling 1.6 Ghz motherboards to owners of selected older mac models.

I haven't seen anything like this anywhere else, and I am beginning to think this was either wishful thinking or a prank.

Does anyone know if this is for real or not?


Chet

 

[Sun Baked]

Re: G5 upgrade

Originally posted by prechrchet
I recently saw an article detailing a "No Mac Left Behind" program by Apple. In this program, Apple is selling 1.6 Ghz motherboards to owners of selected older mac models.

I haven't seen anything like this anywhere else, and I am beginning to think this was either wishful thinking or a prank.

Does anyone know if this is for real or not?


Chet

Think PRANK

Though I'd love to get a G5 upgrade for my SE/30 for cheap.

 

[dorleac]

G4 PowerBooks Next

As you can see, [the G5] is not going in a PowerBook anytime soon. Motorola remains very important to us, but IBM is the one that can take us to the next level."

I was so hoping that a PPC 970 Powerbook would be coming soon, with a Rev B by January. At which point I would buy my laptop.

I think the key term here is "soon". What does "soon" mean to Joswiak? Weeks? Months? A year?

Yes, it's hard to stomach buying a $3000 laptop with a G4 chip that has been around for some time now. I am getting tired of waiting for the G5 version, however.

Of course, once the Rev B G5 laptop comes out and I buy, a revision a few months later might include a replacable OLED screen.

 

[mjgonz1]

Ok now I'm at a truly confused!! I start Medical School in early August and need a new computer. My school right now has a deal for a 1GHz PowerBook (standard config) with AppleCare for $2099. They only have a few left at this point. It seems like such a good deal for the machine I would be getting. I can only afford to buy one machine and it needs to last me on the scale of 3-4 years. Does anyone have any suggestions on whether to hold out for the newer model and pay more, or take this model and get a good break on the price? What updates are you all expecting to the 15"? Would they be worth the extra $?

 

[k2k koos]

dissapointed...

If true, that isn't good.
I was saving up for a PB (but as I mentioned in the G5 thread, my car ate the money...) too, thinking I might be getting my hands on a g5.....

Apple get rid of Moto please!!!

They are dragging you down, promises promises promises, no result,just another g4 (where is their G5..., died a silent dead?)with no doubt the same stupid problems. It looked so nice, If there is not goign to be a much faster g4 or indeed PB soon, the PB's might loose substantial ground against wintel botebooks, no matter how cool the PB looks!

 

[gwangung]

Margins....

Originally posted by greenstork
Unfortunately, I don't see Apple that concerned about it but instead, the remain focused on fat margins. It's almost a slap in the face to some of the most loyal users in the computer world.

A) 30% margins are NOT fat. At least not in the real world; in most manufacturing businesses, you have to have at least 20-30% to survive.

B) I believe the 30% is across the line, for both hardware and software (which typically are much higher anyway).

I think thinking about margins is missing the point....

 

[greenstork]

Originally posted by stompy


I wouldn't characterize the engineering of a laptop based on a new processor a baby step. [/B]

When I said baby step, I meant from a marketing and strategy perspective, not engineering as noted in my post.

 

[DTphonehome]

Originally posted by mjgonz1
Ok now I'm at a truly confused!! I start Medical School in early August and need a new computer. My school right now has a deal for a 1GHz PowerBook (standard config) with AppleCare for $2099. They only have a few left at this point. It seems like such a good deal for the machine I would be getting. I can only afford to buy one machine and it needs to last me on the scale of 3-4 years. Does anyone have any suggestions on whether to hold out for the newer model and pay more, or take this model and get a good break on the price? What updates are you all expecting to the 15"? Would they be worth the extra $?

Congrats on med school! Where will you be going? I just got my MCAT score today, and I'm stoked b/c I have a good feeling
Anyway, I really don't see a G5 in the PB anytime soon. You saw the G5 tower....nine fans! Hello?! It's going to take an entirely different chip to cram it into a laptop and not have it start nuclear fusion in your lap.
Is it possible there will be a new chip in the PB? I think most definitly...perhaps an all new G4, which still has plenty of life left in it. The iMac won't get a G5 for a while, you can be sure. Anyway, anything you buy now will be superceded in a matter of months, but that's computers for you. But I don't think you're going to see an update like the jump from a Model T to a Corvette (the way some people have been describing it, they think the G4 is worthless and the G5 the greatest computer innovation since the MacII). But I hope that when I start med school next year September, I'll have a sweet new PB G5

Best of Luck!

--DT

 

[greenstork]

Re: Margins....

Originally posted by gwangung
A) 30% margins are NOT fat. At least not in the real world; in most manufacturing businesses, you have to have at least 20-30% to survive.

B) I believe the 30% is across the line, for both hardware and software (which typically are much higher anyway).

I think thinking about margins is missing the point....

Apple is widely known to have some of the highest margins among hardware makers. They are, above all else, a hardware company. It is where their bread is buttered so to speak. It is why they can stockpile over $4 billion in cash reserves with less than 3% of the market share. It is why they have not allwed others to manufacture their hardware (with some small and obsolete exceptions).

We can go back and forth all day about how a comparably equipped Dell is the same if not more than a Mac but the fact remains that most people spend more on a Mac purchase. They sell luxury machines which command luxury prices. I think this business model is threatened by the growth of Linux and other open source models. And, selfishly, I want to see more software development, more gaming options, and so on.

It is my opinion that this will only happen if they forsake some of these high margins in favor of more market share.

Feel free to throw this post onto some other thread, I know it is not pertinent to the PB discussion, my apologies again.

 

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by arn
Holding out hope?

arn

Of course!

But at this point I'd really just be thrilled to see a 12" Powerbook with a 1 GHz G4 and some decent (or any) L3 Cache.

 

[Romanesq]

Too much to hope for



Profit margins I don't believe are the driving force in the development and long overdue release for the Powerbooks.

Sadly, I along with others were much too hyped up with the desire to believe that Apple would break marketing sense and have G5s in both towers and laptops.

I really wanted to believe it.

But without an engineering background, yesterday's release clearly shows that a major rearchitecting would be in order to put this chip into a laptop.

I am now wondering what the powerbook strategy will be in the near term and what we can expect with the overdue 15" alums.

 

[gbojim]

From what I've been told - this is from a former college mate who is doing embedded systems design so I cannot vouch for this first hand - the problem with using the 970 in a notebook is not heat. The issue is the 970 does not have the same low power modes as the Motorola G4 that allow the chip to run in various energy saving states.

As a result, battery life would be horrible with a 970 in a notebook.

 

[jbomber]

Daddy needs a new 15" PB

Here's the thing, I don't see Apple releasing any sort of PB-G5 for quite some time. I'm talking a year or more, so it's probably best not to hold your breath on those . BUT what i don't get is why they're dragging their feet with the 15" Aluminum PB. The Titaniums were cool and all, but honestly the scratching and paint chipping was a huge pain in the ass....
Besides, for the sake of consistency you'd figure the 15" would be brought into line with the other configurations.

When do you think it'll be introduced? I sold my Titanium 3 days before WWDC because i figured that even if Apple couldn't manage to squeeze a G5 processor into a powerbook, they'd at least introduce one with the Aluminum feature set.

 

[DTphonehome]

Re: Margins....

Originally posted by gwangung
A) 30% margins are NOT fat. At least not in the real world; in most manufacturing businesses, you have to have at least 20-30% to survive.

B) I believe the 30% is across the line, for both hardware and software (which typically are much higher anyway).

I think thinking about margins is missing the point....

Acc to CNN, the PBs bring in a 20% margin, and the PMs a 30% margin. Apple has pretty respectable numbers in the laptop dept, but they needed a shot in the arm with the PMs. It's a hell of a shot in the arm, and it should make a difference at the end of the year.
And isn't that what matters? To he who complained about profits: We all want to see new Apple stuff, and it ain't going to happen if they just give these things away. They spend hundred of millions on R&D every year, and have to recoup it somewhere. It IS a business, and it will never be a successful company if they don;t make a regular profit. If you want charity, go to Salvation Army. I'm sure they can sell you some nice PCs cheap.

--DT