G4 with Today's Video Editing

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by DMCS, May 5, 2016.

  1. DMCS macrumors newbie

    DMCS

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    #1
    I am fairly new to video editing but I know that of course the best type of PC's to get are the ones with the i7 processors and the highest amount of RAM, etc but since I am on a serious budgetary constraint since I bought a PC for video editing where Premiere totally crapped out even though the specs on that machine is suppose to be superior.

    I am left with a dilemma where I need to get another machine just for video editing. MacSales offers a wide variety of older G4 from (2008 and up)

    But what I really want advice on is what would the minimum of configuration that I could buy where I could run Premiere (today's version) and edit fairly decent and it could handle it.

    The prices range from $300 - several thousands and of course I know the more expensive ones are to go but considering that I would rather be in the $300 side until I can get my editing skills to a point where it warrants a better machine.

    Does someone has any feedback if a 2008 4 Core G4 is like a total waste of money where I could get something like mini that would be more powerfull today?
     
  2. keysofanxiety macrumors 604

    keysofanxiety

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2011
    #2
    A G4 or G5 (well any PPC Mac) won't run the latest Adobe software. Nobody develops for that platform anymore. Plus $300 for a G4 sounds extortionate to be honest.

    Also I'm not sure the G4s were quad core. They were dual processor as far as I know, but each processor didn't have 2 cores. I believe the only quad core PPC machines were the G5s.

    Regardless, you'd get way more for your money even with a 2012 Mac Mini. Even the DDR3 and SATA 6Gb/s interface alone will make a massive difference. You can get the i7 quads for a fair price. Upgrade the RAM to 16GB, throw in an SSD, and you're laughing.
     
  3. eRondeau macrumors 6502a

    eRondeau

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2004
    Location:
    Canada's South Coast
    #3
    I've done lots of video editing using iMovie on a 2003 iBook G4 years ago. It was quite workable and while it was never "quick", it was fine. However please keep in mind that if you're looking at a decade-old Mac, you'll also need to run decade-old OS X and decade-old editing software on it. And connect it to a decade-old video camera (almost certainly using Firewire, not USB or SD). I'd be surprised if anything more than standard NTSC video (480i) would work with it, although you might be able to get iMovie HD going with some luck. If you've got the vintage gear to support it, and if your expectations are tempered, you might be quite happy with what you can do with it.

    Having said all that -- I've got a dozen 2000's -vintage Mac's including a PowerMac G4 and I've never heard of a Quad-Core G4. The best I've seen would be a Dual-Core G4 @ 1.42GHz. But those are collectors items now and exceedingly rare.

    Perhaps you're looking at a Quad-Core PowerMac G5? Those exist and are very sweet; also collectors items. I've got a Dual-Core G5 @ 1.8GHz that runs iMovie HD and Final Cut Express 4 quite capably. I got it for $100 including an Apple Cinema Display monitor so that might be something you want to consider. Especially if you can find a decent one for a decent price.
     
  4. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #4
    I think you might be getting your terminology mixed up as the G4 line was killed in the early 2000's and their successor, the G5, was killed in the mid-2000's. Anything from 2006ish onward uses Intel CPUs.

    I have a 2009 MacPro tower which is still doing okay, but I've upgraded the RAM, the video card, the harddrive and added a USB 3.0/eSATA card in order to keep it viable. All of that adds to the cost. Older Macs only shipped with FW800 and USB 2.0 and that lack of modern I/O can be a big problem. Modern editing software also uses the GPU a lot more than in the past so you need to stay away from anything that only has an integrated Intel GPU (as opposed to a GPU from AMD or Nvidia).

    At the very least you need modern I/O (USB 3 and/or ThunderBolt), 16gig of RAM and an AMD or Nvidia GPU with 1gig of VRAM.
     
  5. RCAFBrat macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Location:
    Montreal, QC
    #5
    What exactly are the specs of the PC you bought; while this is a Mac forum, perhaps the best option for your budget will be to upgrade what you already have. An SSD, more RAM and / or new GPU can really have an immediate impact on performance.

    I also like the 2012 Mac Mini option but to get a really snappy solution you're surely going to have to spend more than $300.

    Cheers
     
  6. joema2 macrumors 65816

    joema2

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    #6
    Premiere normally does OK with H264 720p or 1080p on even a several-year-old PC with a mid-range nVidia GPU. I have edited a lot of H264 1080p content with Premiere CS6 on a ThinkPad W520 with Core i7 2720QM, nVidia 1000M GPU and 16GB RAM. It was a pretty good laptop five years ago but it's very old by today's standards. It ran Premiere pretty well.

    Premiere CC can really struggle with 4K H264 on even a top-spec 2015 iMac 27. FCPX is a lot faster and it has both Quick Sync hardware-assisted H264 encode/decode and proxy support built in which both help. Premiere has neither of those but Adobe is adding it soon (Quick Sync will be Windows only for now).

    I would not suggest running Premiere on anything besides a fairly recent, fairly well-equipped Mac. E.g, a top-spec 2013 iMac 27. On Windows you have a lot more configuration options. If you bought a PC recently for video editing it should handle Premiere OK unless it is really low end and you're trying to do 4K.
     
  7. DMCS thread starter macrumors newbie

    DMCS

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    #7
    Well, I bought a MSI Ghost, with the i7 5700 HQ processor (I believe its the right lettering) it has 16 GB RAM and 1 TB HDD with a 256 SSD where the programs and OS live.

    I opted for that machine because it was about $1500 cheaper than the Macbook Pro I initially looked at, actually that machine had much more fire power than the Macbook Pro. It also has a NVIDA GTX 970m 2GB dedicated memory video card.

    The problem with this machine is that I can't never get Adobe Premiere to run, it consistently crashes, even with Illustrator, there are consistent problems been on the Adobe Forums but that support is like non existent and they want you do to do all these steps like updating the registry uninstall and reinstall, change the configuration of this and that which I just don't believe I should have to do with a brand new machine. I updated, upgraded video drivers, fiddle with all of these configuration settings. Spec wise this machine should kill the Mac but obviously the OS plays a big part.

    I just believe MAC is a much better system that can handle powerful and demanding applications even the older models.

    I also have a MacBook Pro 2012 or 2013 which has the specs but I use it for work and it has a bunch of other things that I run on it from Database development, etc. I installed Premiere no problem and it works like a charm but like I said I use this machine for work and it is IDE's and all kinds of other stuff on there and my storage is limited

    So I wanted a dedicated machine just to run video since it is so demanding. Now that I spent my money on this PC which I can't return I figured getting a machine that may not be as great but will at least let me run editing until I get it to point to upgrade to something pricier. I just spent nearly $2500 on this PC laptop which I should have waited to get the MAC

    But now I want to find a MAC option that will allow me to run the new version premiere and After Effects without blowing to my budget.

    I think I have the terminology wrong this is what I was talking about http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Apple/07Q30584GGC/
    --- Post Merged, May 5, 2016 ---
    I did buy a MSI Ghost with an i7 5700 processor, 16 GB of RAM and Hybrid HDD with 1 TB of HDD and 256 SSD for the OS and programs since the software should have more speed. It even has an NVIDIA 970m 2GB dedicated memory video card but the irony is that Premiere CC ALWAYS crashes, I may get to import a clip but as soon as I try to edit, it crashes, or the progam monitor turns black and nothing can be seen.

    I did all of the recommended upgrades, updates, reconfigs, reinstalls, etc. It would work for a hot second and the bam crashes. Maybe it is Windows 10 since it was an upgrade from 8 but the upgrade happened a brand new install and machine.

    I am usually a MAC person but calling myself saving about $1500 and thought that specs where better but now I am paying the real price.

    I have a MacBook Pro 2013 which was top of the line at that time with the full blown specs. Premiere CC runs fine and even parallel with After Effects, no issues at all from the first install but it is my work computer that has a gazillion of development applications that I been running. So I wanted a dedicated video machine which the MSI was suppose to be but now I can't even that Premiere CC to even run to edit one movie. It's frustrating.

    I thought the Final Cut has been discontinued and I read that it hasn't been upgraded in 5 to 7 years by Apple?

    Didn't think that Video is such a difficult space.
    --- Post Merged, May 5, 2016 ---
    It is a MSI Ghost - i7 5700HQ (2.7 GHZ), 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970m 2 GB GDDR5, 1TB HDD 256 SSD.

    As I was saying in the other replies that Premiere CC consistently crashes couldn't even start the very first movie and I tried all of the recommendation from Adobe Forums. I think it is a Windows 10 issue for some reason. never have this frustated and feel like wasted $2500
     
  8. joema2 macrumors 65816

    joema2

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    #8
    This wasn't necessarily a bad choice, you have just been unlucky. You are right it is a lot cheaper. Although an iMac isn't that much more expensive than an *equivalent* all-in-one PC, a MacBook Pro can be very expensive. If you absolutely must have laptop portability I fully understand the incentive for the MSI machine. Also Premiere generally runs better on Windows from a performance standpoint, mainly because you have more hardware configuration options.

    I use both Premiere CC and FCPX on Mac and Windows, although most of my editing has migrated to FCPX. Premiere on Windows can be very stable -- maybe not as stable as FCPX on OS X but that also isn't perfect and sometimes you counter problems. I have done lots of editing with Premiere CS5, CS6 and CC. It generally works well, although you can sometimes fall into a "trough" of instability caused by unknown factors.

    Those are standard troubleshooting steps. Yes they are often given as "boilerplate" steps without rational thought about how likely they will correct the problem. Yes it is frustrating and I feel for you.

    First do the obvious things (which you have already done): update all software, drivers, etc. Check for extraneous apps or utilities running and eliminate them. Verify your disk space and run a disk scan. If you are using an external HDD, run a performance or stress test on it to ensure it is fully reliable. Check the Windows system log for any suspicious entries.

    Some problems are caused by damaged or corrupted video files. Create a fresh project and import some new files which are known good. Try different camera codecs. The best approach is try to isolate then narrow down the replication scenario. If you can find a somewhat small, portable replication scenario that tend to get fixed quickly and the process of finding it will often show a workaround.

    Given your current problem situation, yes it seems like the Mac was the best choice but you did not necessarily make a wrong choice -- it just isn't working out. It may be possible to isolate and correct the problem given more investigation. I'm sure lots of people run Premiere on that laptop. If there is any MSI forum it would be interesting to query are there other Premiere users on that hardware and what is their experience.

    Final Cut Pro X is being actively and aggressively developed by Apple. It has been updated frequently over the past five years, and another major update is expected fairly soon. This was demo'd at NAB but under NDA so no details are available. FCPX is being used to make major feature films such as Focus: http://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro/in-action/focus/ and Whiskey Tango Foxtrot: http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/art...y-tango-foxtrot-was-edited-on-final-cut-pro-x

    However if you are already familiar with Premiere and you have no problems paying $50 per month to use it, I'd stay with that.
     
  9. kohlson macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    #9
    Perhaps an option is to buy a fast disk and create a separate environment for your video editing but use your work machine. If it's 2013 MBP it has USB3, which is fast enough for all but the most intensive projects. Get either a 1TB SSD in a USB3 external (300+ MB/sec read/write), install OS X and video editing tools on it, and you're all set. Or, get a smaller drive and get another, larger HDD as an archive drive. If the PC laptop isn't meeting you needs, the sooner you sell it the better, as prices drop pretty quickly on these.
     
  10. ColdCase macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Location:
    NH
    #10
    I found USB to lack performance and frustrating for all but the very basic projects. You need the current media and library on as fast as disk as you can get, usually internal SSD or TB SSD. USB3 is OK for archives. Not saying that one can't make USB3 work, if patient, its just not fast enough.
     
  11. RCAFBrat macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Location:
    Montreal, QC
    #11
    USB 3 storage device that are UASP compliant should be fine - with an SSD, I have found they can perform at more than double the speed of USB 3 enclosure that is not.

    To illustrate this: my son was working on a very complex project in FCPX about 18 months ago - the timeline looked like a city skyline! He was originally using the internal HDD for the project but experienced many crashes; switching to a 240 GB Samsung 840 EVO in a low cost USB 3 helped until the timeline became longer and more complex; changing the enclosure to one that was UASP compliant fixed all of his issues.

    I agree that internal or TB SSD will be superior, however, a good UASP compliant USB 3 enclosure with SSD will be fine for all but the most demanding cases.

    Cheers
     
  12. kohlson, May 9, 2016
    Last edited: May 9, 2016

    kohlson macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    #12
    I can only relate my experience of using USB for FCPX, which is acceptable for relatively easy projects. One good way to check if a disk/IO is good enough for what you want to do is use Blackmagic Disk Speed Test (free). If you're doing 1080p24 in 10-bit RGB, the USB3 SSD I use is plenty fast. Not so much for 12-bit 4:4:4 with lots of effects on the timeline, not so much.
    --- Post Merged, May 9, 2016 ---
    Good point about UASP. My SSD is in a UASP enclosure from Oyen. It was way less than $50 on Amazon.
     
  13. ColdCase macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Location:
    NH
    #13
    Yeah, I can only report my experience, and my desire for instant gratification while scrubbing. USB with USAP and SSD is bad, but if stuttering scrubbing and spinning beachballs are not an issue for you, then its a don't care. I don't think there are other functions that are affected enough (when editing prores video files), but I don't use all of them. USB has so many other usability issues, however.... but then its cheap and dirty. eSATA and SATA provides a much better user experience that USB. But there are a lot of USB fan boys that seem to make it work and overcome its issues for storage.
     
  14. calaverasgrande macrumors 65816

    calaverasgrande

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York.
    #14
    Couple things.
    Setting up a video workstation is a technical task. Even on a Mac you will need to mind your Ps and Qs. There are numerous codecs, frame rates and other details that need to be managed.
    Adobe products like Premiere and Photoshop seem to benefit from having a scratch disk which is a different volume than the OS disk or project disk. Still true even with SSDs.
    I have about as much experience on the Windows side of things as Mac. Actually a lot of broadcast facilities make extensive use of Windows workstations.
    Also not pointing fingers, just general advice. Cracked software is a waste of time.
    You may end up with an unstable machine, malware. And you will not be able to appeal to the vendor for help if you have issues. Worst of all, the fruit of your efforts is legally not yours, but belongs to the software vendor!
     

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