G4's in ibooks, when?

[powerbook]

Now that the imac's have G4's, the ibooks are looking a little weak. I want to get a new ibook but a G3 at 600 Mhz is just to slow. Its fine for now but in a years time it will be very outdated. My 3 year old lombard has a 400Mhz G3!!!! If the ibook got a 800Mhz G3 (FX) then it would be more interesting..., but as apple is optimizing OS X for the G4, the ibook should have a G4.

Does motorola have any new version of a portable G4 in the pipeline? The current G4 in the Ti is very weak and far behind the desktop versions. When I bought my lombard it had the same processor speed as the Powermac G3's. Maybe apple should have kept the G3 a little longer until the portable G4 was developed a bit more, then we might have already had a 1Ghz laptop?!?

 

[Mr. Anderson]

There's no way you'll see a G4 in an iBook until Apple updates the TiPB. It just wouldn't make sense to have 2 portables with G4s at such different ends of the market. If you want the power, you'll either have to settle for what's out now, fork over the extra $ for a Ti, or wait for who knows how long.

 

[Backtothemac]

Powerbook, have you worked on one of the iBook G3 600's? These little suckers are quick, real quick. I love mine, and believe me it will not be outdated in one year. I had a G3 300 clamshell iBook, and it would still do everything today that it did almost three years ago. Machines being "outdated" are up to ones own perception, and slow is not what I would call the iBook. Now if you are planning on running Final Cut Pro, or lightwave etc, then yea, go for a PowerBook, you will want the screen size anyway. But if you just need a portable that will run VPC, and Office, and common apps. Go for the iBook.

 

[King Cobra]

I predict no G4 iBooks until the PowerMac G5

I do not exactly see the point of having four computer line-ups with three different processor types. It doesn't make sense. What would make sense is for Apple to debut the Powermac G5, then upgrade the iBook to a G4

Originally posted by Yours Truly
There are several reasons for why the iBook will continue to support the 750, 750CX, etc. chip and will refuse to advance to the level to the G4:
(1) A G4 in the iBook of equal speeds compared with the Powerbook G4 does coincide with a modist heat issue.
(2) A G4 . . . will reduce the already impressive battery life in the iBook for any single charge.
(3) A G4 . . . will significantly raise the price of the iBook, causing the bottom of the line consumer portable Mac to be overpriced.
(4) A G4 in an iBook will kill sales for the Powerbook, especially if the G4 processor has very high speeds.
(5) If I am not mistaken, Apple wants to keep the iBook as a tool for the education market. The video demonstration for the iBook 500 (upon debut) showed this. I will assume that Apple will continue to support the educational market with an affordable portable computer.

I think that if the G5 becomes standard in the Powermacs (which better happen soon) AND in the Powerbooks, then and only then will Apple remove the G3 processor from the iBook and replace it with a low-cost, power-saving G4.

 

[AmbitiousLemon]

i think apple can and will do it. the challenge wont be differentiating the product lines as the current iMac and powermacs have proved they can balance g4s in both consumer and pro productlines, no, the challenge instead will be getting a g4 to run cool enough to put in an iBook.

with motorola's SOI technology and Apollo g4 chips that are a product of such technology a low powered and cooler g4 is a reality. this technology is ideally suited for portable g4s and hopefully we will get apollo chips in the powerbooks soon. once that happens a apollo chip in iMacs and iBooks shouldnt be long behind (a year?--?=wild guess).

i think the new iMac is a clear testimont that apple is commited to a G4 altivec enabled product line across models and as soon as technology catches up with Steve's dream we will have g4 iBooks.

but if you are thinking about buying... many people are pleased with osx on their iBooks. I am not one of them, but many here will tell you they feel the speed is adequate. But i think you are wise to mention that they are fine now but may not stand the test of time so well. as always it boild down to can you wait a year or more to buy, if you cant how long do you plan on using this computer, and have you considered a powerbook instead.

 

[ilikeiBook]

Re: G4's in ibooks, when?

Originally posted by powerbook
Now that the imac's have G4's, the ibooks are looking a little weak. I want to get a new ibook but a G3 at 600 Mhz is just to slow. Its fine for now but in a years time it will be very outdated. My 3 year old lombard has a 400Mhz G3!!!! If the ibook got a 800Mhz G3 (FX) then it would be more interesting..., but as apple is optimizing OS X for the G4, the ibook should have a G4.

Does motorola have any new version of a portable G4 in the pipeline? The current G4 in the Ti is very weak and far behind the desktop versions. When I bought my lombard it had the same processor speed as the Powermac G3's. Maybe apple should have kept the G3 a little longer until the portable G4 was developed a bit more, then we might have already had a 1Ghz laptop?!?

Until the Powermac amd Powerbook G5 come out, I dont think we will see any G4's in iBooks. I have an iBook G3 300 Mhz and it works fine in OS 9.1. OS X is another story...

 

[iGav]

Not yet though.....

The G4's are coming to the ibook range, but not until the Ti Books get the speed increase they deserve and need.... so I'm with Dukestreet on this one...

What we have have to consider is the fact that there are lots of performance differences between the new iMac and the current Power Macs, and these differences simply wouldn't manifest if Apple squeezed the G4 into the ibook and they would be too similar in performance.......

I'd really like to see the Ti Books get a serious increase, and also a Dual processor option..... I know the engineering problems that fitting dual processors would cause, but I would certainly welcome the extra horsepower when I'm on the road.... (I've been known to render DV on 2 hour train rides and more speed would certainly help) And with the ability of reducing processor power, or even turning a processor off if desired from the OS a reality, and the possibility of incorporating new battery technology into both portables, it would certainly improve it's position as a serious desktop replacement.......

A friend of mine has an iBook, and it certainly shifts..... but I think Apple will stick with the G3 chip and mirror the Ti Books G4 upto 1Ghz, by the time these both reach 1 Ghz I hope that Apple will be installing a G5 into the Ti Book (Although what will it be made out of by then who knows?? Graphite anyone??) and switch the iBook to the G4........

Wouldn't it be nice though a 1Ghz G3 iBook and a Dual 1Ghz PowerBook within the next 10 to 12 months.......

We can dream I suppose.......

 

[AmbitiousLemon]

i find it very amusing how everyone is saying the ibook doesnt need a g4 or that it wont happen for a long time. just funny because i can remember thinking the same thing about the iMac. i mean we all knew it would be lcd but only the idiots thought it would be g4. everyone was saying it had to be a g3 again. so when framing your arguments for a g3 ibook keep in mind what everyone said about the possibility of a g4 imac in december 2001 and what happened january 2002.

 

[MacAztec]

Out of date?!?

Hey, listen to this. My dad bought the PowerBook G3 500MHz Pismo in like...when it just came out. It has been the fastest G3 for quite some time, and the best for 2-3 years. Up until MWSF, it has been the best G3 laptop.

That was about 3 years, so your ibook will not go out of date. And another thing...

Why is it to slow for you? What apps are you going to be running? I bet you wont be using FCP, so just save yourself 1000 dollars!

 

[iGav]

I hope.....

That Apple does stick the G4 into iBook as soon as possible, as they may well then suprise us all with a dual processored Ti Book like they did with the Power Mac after the iMac was released......

If they do put the G4 in the iBook sometime soon, then it will be at speeds above 600Mhz, they won't fit a G4 at sub 600Mhz, because to the uneducated buyer, they won't understand why in their eyes the iBook has a slower chip in it...... The MHZ myth simply hasn't filtered down to the PC Worlds and Time Computers of this world!! (2 crappy computer superstores in the UK)

That means that they'll have to fit some decently improved G4's in the Ti Book simple as that!! if it wants to maintain that the Ti Book is a serious machine for creative professionals and the most powerful laptop on the market!!

I think everybody wants the iBook and indeed the whole of Apples line up to switch to G4, I just think Apple are very aware of the fact that the iBook would steal most of the Ti Books possible purchasers!!!

I personally would like to see Apple make a smaller version of the Ti Book, as I'm not a particular fan of the way the iBook looks, (personal opinion) this would blur the line between consumer and pro-sumer products and stop this argument about machines being on different chips purely because of the targetted audience!!

When utimately surely the best thing for everybody would be to have the greatest product range possible........ something Apple is avoiding doing at the moment with the iBook!!

 

[AmbitiousLemon]

apple did drop the mhz on the powerbook when they moved to g4 so its possible.

apple could put ~600 and ~700 mhz g4s in the ibooks and ~700 and ~800 in the powerbook. that woudl be differentiation enough considering all the other advantages of the powerbook.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
apple could put ~600 and ~700 mhz g4s in the ibooks and ~700 and ~800 in the powerbook. that woudl be differentiation enough considering all the other advantages of the powerbook.

I would have to disagree for a couple of reasons. The iBook is $1200 - $1800 (14.1" screen, combo drive), the TiPB $2300 - $3700. Thats $1100 to $1900 more on the base models. There needs to be a distinct advantage to having a TiPB over a iBook, or else they won't sell. Putting G4s in both machines right now just doesn't make sense. The only difference is a faster bus, somewhat larger screen, larger harddrive options and faster video card. Try and justify buying one TiPB or 2 top end iBooks for less.

Also, the G3 is IBM and the G4 Motorola. That would mean IBM would only be supplying chips for the low end iMacs. Given the current state of events concerning the future of Apples processors, it wouldn't behoove Apple to snub IBM, they need to keep things diverse.

 

[krossfyter]

whats wrong with this argument???.....


"they wont put a g4 in the iBook untill after they put a G5 in the powerbook. "

 

[Mr. Anderson]

If the G5 comes from Motorola, you still have the same issue with IBMs G3s. I think you'll see the G3 around for a while and even into 2003.

 

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
apple did drop the mhz on the powerbook when they moved to g4 so its possible.

apple could put ~600 and ~700 mhz g4s in the ibooks and ~700 and ~800 in the powerbook. that woudl be differentiation enough considering all the other advantages of the powerbook.

that sounds like a plausible plan

of course, my wish is to see a dual g4 powerbook and the g4 ibook very soon...right around the time a g5 will come out on the professional level mac desktop

 

[powerbook]

I don't believe in the argument that my pismo lasted for 2 years and so will the ibook... The thing is that when the lombard and pismo laptops where released, there speed wasn't far behind the Powermacs. After the introduction of the Pismo machines I don't feel that the powerbooks have developed that much in terms of speed. This means that they are far behind with larger margins than the old powerbooks had. If apple had stuck with the G3's for a while longer the powerbooks would definetaly have 1 Ghz G3's by now!!! Adding the fact that OS X is more power hungry than OS 9, the current laptops will last even shorter. Yes, you can run OS X fine on a ibook now, but I think it will start to get sluggish in the future...
As my pismo was very advanced with its 400Mhz G3 three years ago, it has been able to last for a long time, even with OS X, But apple have now started to drop support for this machine even though OS X is supported on this machine, i.e. DVD support , Rage Pro and Open GL are all disabled on my machine.
Anyway, I am hoping motorola will be able to release a fast mobile version of the G4 and not a scaled down version that is in current machines. The Powerbook should have been at around 800-900 by now... and the ibook at least at 700, considering that a 700 G3 has been around for 1 year and a 1 ghz G3 for three months!!!!

 

[AmbitiousLemon]

powerbook, i completely agree with you. fyi ibm made a 1ghz g3 in '99 just more proof of what you said. and more evidence that ibm should be making the pro chips not moto, but thats another issue all together.

 

[iGav]

True.....

IBM should be making the Pro line of chips, but to be honest wouldn't be great if Apples range were all on the same chips, whether it be all G4 or switch it to G5...... And just have a wide sweeping range of speeds throughout the range. I do think that the iBook is on a harsh deal sticking with the G3, but there you go!!

I thought the whole idea with the AIM alliance would be that technology would be shared, to improve the development of the Power PC and to really make Intel sweat...... It seems to me that Motorola is holding back the development of PPC chips by not allowing IBM to co-develop the latest range of chips with Altivec...... and christ knows what else.

But if what we hear about the state of play with Motorola currently, is possible that both Apple and IBM could take over property rights and fabrication plants from Moto and really push the PPC to the speeds that it should really be at.

Maybe it might be sooner than we think that Apple will shift the iBook over to the G4, but where does that leave IBM?? Lets face it, if you would have to choose between Moto or IBM for chip production, whom would you rather be with???

 

[AmbitiousLemon]

Re: True.....

Originally posted by iGAV
IBM should be making the Pro line of chips, but to be honest wouldn't be great if Apples range were all on the same chips, whether it be all G4 or switch it to G5...... And just have a wide sweeping range of speeds throughout the range.

you know this is something i was thinking about a few weeks ago, and i decided its a great idea and very much inline with what apple has been doing lately. each of apple's lines is increasingly getting fewer options. and didnt they have iMacs with all the same processor but different in other ways? so having all the same processor would be great and another step in the same direction. also it would be nice for softwre development. just have one or two speeds for each model, but the same architecture. it also brings down production costs. all iMacs at 1ghz g4, all ibooks at 1ghz mobile g4, all powerbooks at 1.6ghz mobile g4, and all powermacs at 1.6 ghz mobile g4. ok im pulling numbers out of my ass, but im just trying to illustrate my point.

 

[iGav]

Beautifully illustrated......

AmbitiousLemon I get your point......

The advantages would far out weigh the disadvantages, it's like Volkswagen, they develop 1 floorpan and use it throughout there range aswell as including other models from the other car companies it owns, such as Audi, Skoda and SEAT.... they all share the same floorpan, engines etc, but they look different...... perform differently and are aimed at different markets... the VW Golf and Audi TT are based on the same platform, with similar engines, yet they look and perform differently and are aimed at differing markets!!! Yet alot of the development costs were shared, as is the technology...... ( i hope that makes sense!!)

I like the idea you suggested of speeds, it makes perfect sense to me, that way you can still differentiate the difference between the low end and hi-end models, yet all the machines throughout the range are seriously powerful, and everyone whether you're a student with a low budget or a creative professional with a huge budget you know that you are getting the best possible performance from Apples range and indeed for your $....


Oh Happy Easter everyone.......... Eat lots Easter Eggs......

 

[King Cobra]

Originally posted by powerbook

Anyway, I am hoping motorola will be able to release a fast mobile version of the G4 and not a scaled down version that is in current machines. The Powerbook should have been at around 800-900 by now... and the ibook at least at 700, considering that a 700 G3 has been around for 1 year and a 1 ghz G3 for three months!!!!

Didn't Lemon post (in the superfast G3 iBook section) that the 1GHz G3 came out in 1999 with a 400MHz? I'm not saying that you are incorrect; I would just like to clear that up.

Question: If apple seems to increase their iBook CPU speed by 100MHz every six months, will Apple ever achieve 1000MHz in their iBooks? Let's assume that when the G5s come out, the iBook will move to a low-power G4.

Aslo, what would this mean for Powerbook G4 sales?
_________________

I have a hat with my name on it!

 

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by dukestreet


I would have to disagree for a couple of reasons. The iBook is $1200 - $1800 (14.1" screen, combo drive), the TiPB $2300 - $3700. Thats $1100 to $1900 more on the base models. There needs to be a distinct advantage to having a TiPB over a iBook, or else they won't sell.

I disagree. An iBook has 90% the functionality or more of a PowerBook. The Powerbook is needed for very high end applications, yes, but that is a small fraction of overall computer usage.

The reason why people pay over $1000 price premiums for computers with $200 of additional "value" is ego. People want the best computer. It is a well known fact of marketing that large price premiums are commanded from the last 10% of product value.

So long as human behavior does not dramatically change, upper end CPU's will largely be sold on the basis of ego (and incidentally deliver additional value that is real).

Rocketman

TiG4-400 (lower of upper end)

 

[Mr. Anderson]

I use a 667 TiPB to do 3D animation and DV. I wouldn't even consider the iBook as an option. The performance difference is more than substantial, and I'm not the only one going to the Ti for this reason. Sure, its nice be able to pull out the Ti and have people look at it with amazement, its a sweet machine. I think the added power is a bigger selling point than ego.

 

[krossfyter]

i had an ibook....i had to sell it off to get a tibook 667 because i needed more power...and i DEFINITLY see the advantages of the tibook. in my opinion the tibook is WAY faster then the ibook when doing the work i do...which is graphic work.


no one can tell me others since the proof is in the pudding...to use and overly used phrase.

 

[DakotaGuy]

I have a iBook 600 and fine it runs OSX just fine, but I do agree more speed would be nice. A lot of people on here have stated that because of "Megahertz myth" Apple would not have any problem coming out with a G4 iBook with around 500-600MHz. I agree a 500-600MHz G4 iBook would be quicker then the current 600Mhz G3 iBook, but I think if Apple is going to put a G4 in the machine they need to make it more powerful. I think they would also need a new case to handle the G4. Doesn't the G4 run warmer then the G3? What about power consumption?

Personally I would rather see a 1GHz G3 iBook next time around then a G4 500Mhz. Even running in OSX I personally believe that a G3 running at 1GHz would smoke a G4 running at half the speed. Just my two cents. Anybody think different?