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G5 box design: step backward

Well, the new case seems to be very much in line with the design of the powerbooks, and also, in the design of the new apple stores(simplicity & functionality = beauty).

From another perspective, it may have been IMPOSSIBLE to out-Apple Apple, while still making a functional product. I rather like the design, actually, and MUCH prefer it to the "floweryness" of the original iBooks.
 
At first, I thought "EWWWWW" but now that i look at it more, and have seen the airflow pic, it makes a lot of sense. I don't think they can make a perfect computer for everybody. If they added more drive bays, people would complain that it is too tall, if they added pci slots, it would be too expensive etc. I think they did their homework and found that most people use one optical drive and stick with it. Their data could be skewed, as im sure many people bought their second CD drive elsewhere to save themselves from paying apple's astronomical prices. Maybe they thought, "well, only xx% of powermac sales included a second optical drive, lets get rid of it for the G5 and make the cooling better" or something like that. I kinda missed out on the dual optical drives, as i still have a sawtooth, with a firewire CD-RW. No big deal, I use it to put my CRT up a bit higher, as my second CRT is already propped up on my power distro switch thingy.

This could also be a tactic for apple to sell more XServe Raids? perhaps an Xserve raid lite is in order? Not quite so powerful (and expensive) but adds plenty of extra storage in an Apple styled case. Maybe even put a 5.25" bay in it.
 
Being the opener of the thread, may I be permitted to mention that the discussion has derived to an off-topic of the first message's intention.

My main concern was about functionality, and that is why I opened a new thread (there are surely dozens of threads in dozens of sites discussing the looks), and that is where my doubts still are. I tried to explicitely remark the part about "besides any aesthetic consideration".

While it is true that we have not put our hands on one yet, this video clearly shows how they have gone from a 1 piece, pop-up-able, board-on-the-open G3/4 case, to an, at least, not so functional design, where you have this several pieces laying around (the panel and subpanel covering the side of the case, plus fans and possible other things depending on where you want to reach), and getting your hands inside the case, however tidier it is compared to the usual PC. I just do not know what was so bad about the previous INSIDE design to scrap it.
 
Quicksilver

To me the Quicksilver is the most beautiful design ever. When I saw the presentation my first response was; well maybe someday, but I surely never will sell my Quicksilver. But the new one looks good enough to me.
 
With all the fans, and compartmentisation (is that a word?? :) ), I think it would have been very difficult to have a fold-out motherboard. It's a pity, since the G3/G4 design was one of the most functional boxes anywhere - even if the look (to me) dated very quickly.

Personally I love this one, especially the upclose shots. It looks so much more solid than cheap looking (same as the bullet-proof stuff? ha!) plastic.

Mike.
 
I love it... ;)

I think technically it's a huge step forwared, especially the 'Cooling Zones', very innovative...

I like the holes too... :D I'm down with the holes... holes are cool!! :D
 
Best ever...

This machine is the best ever in my opinion. A real beauty. It will look awsome in any setting and it will be timeless. Great work Apple...

As far as expandability is concerned its just awsome. 500 gig internal 8 Gig memory 4x superdrive etc...All the ports for everything you could want except SCSI, which to be honest is probably good.

Anyone that does pro work on more than 500 gig internal harddrives are nuts. The extra heat and stuff would be a very bad idea.

I run external RAID drives for video...I want Xraid!

I run an external FW 52x LaCie CDR for fast speed and love it...when I don't need it I take it out...Perfect.

I see no downside and would rather have the 8Gig Ram than an extra CD burner anyday...

I have ordered mine and hope that we can gain some market share with these babies too...

Congrats Apple!
 
"I just do not know what was so bad about the previous INSIDE design to scrap it."

So, concerning the inside design, I think the G5 is definately a step forward. The tradeoff is ease of installation through the drop open door of the G4 box, versus better airflow and less noise(via the independent cooling zones) in the G5 box.

Well, how much of your computer use involves changing the interior configuration, and how much of the time you spend on your computer involves actually using the computer? My guess is that 99% of the time your G5 machine will be running your apps, more quietly and much quicker(thanks to the airflow), while theoretically you may never have to install a new PCI card or hard drive(though you likely will).

The difference is the focus of the box is on the use of the machine not the configuration. I believe this is a positive change.

By the way, a similar argument applies to the somewhat limited drivespace. My guess is that a much larger percentage of users would never have a use for a second optical drive or third hard drive than those who would. So why handicap the design by making it larger and "busier"for these users, when those others could attach an outside drive(which Apple will likely be releasing around the time of the G5). I for one am glad they kept it simple.
 
I remember when the iPod and the iMac came out people werent so sure about them too, but it grew on them (and me too) when they saw the logic behind the designs...which is Apples brilliance...Sure there are some things which can improved but they are minor...

I was aghast they couldnt keep the door the way it was but when I thought about how they were getting the inner workings to work and keep cool, I thought its still better than any of the PC manufacturers. The fact that the lid has an automatic latch is still better than most PC case manufacturers....

The two hardrive limit is nothing really...when HD capacity reaches 500 meg plus no one will notice or theyll have a RAID setup. The one optical drive may be a consideration but then again Id be happy with an external device.

I could see this machine on my desk, chugging away for the next 5 years..it looks that sturdy and functional...a real workhorse, well done apple...dont listen to the whingers...
 
A quiet box is a beautiful box

As many have noted this box is designed to accomodate the unique compartmentalized airflow that reduces noise. If that makes this a quiet machine then I say this box is a beauty.
 
I'd *like* to think that I have *some* authority on this subject, being a traditionally trained designer. For the record, I love the design. I know this thread was originally about functionality, but, aesthetically, the G5 is beautiful. Clean, modern, with a bit o' 1960's/1970's retro twist. Very nice. Can't afford to buy the first gen', but I'll be givin' plasma to pick up the next generation...

Go Apple! :)
 
Originally posted by mangoman
I'd *like* to think that I have *some* authority on this subject, being a traditionally trained designer. For the record, I love the design. I know this thread was originally about functionality, but, aesthetically, the G5 is beautiful. Clean, modern, with a bit o' 1960's/1970's retro twist. Very nice. Can't afford to buy the first gen', but I'll be givin' plasma to pick up the next generation...

Go Apple! :)
Click to expand...

I could've sworn I posted here already, why can't I find my post?

I agree: fantastic case design. I love the iSight too. I'm also a graphic designer (which is why I stay away from windows.) so this design, of all the ones that have come out so far, appeals to me the most. I think the design is quite progressive and shows a nice evolution.
I thought it was more 1950s influence, the mesh on the back and sleek chromium look reminds me of the sunburst clocks for some reason.
 
regarding the inside:

i have 2 HDs in my g4 tower. i have no plans on putting in any more.

i have 1 optical drive. i have no plans on putting in another.

how many people here actually have more than 2 HDs and/or more than 1 optical drive?
Click to expand...

Well, I have a Superdrive in my aged QS 800 DP and an external FW 24x CD burner because CD performance with a Superdrive is weak, especially burning. I have 3 HDs in my Mac, one connected to a ATA 133 PCI card, plus an external FW drive.
 
For those worried about dust collecting in the holes, I agree but maybe a quick wipe with a moist towel will help. Another way to look at this is that at least the dust isn't collecting in some hidden spot where it could cause a problem. And yet another way of looking at it is if the fans operate more effectively, maybe the optimized airflow will reduce the rate of dust collection
 
Originally posted by bennyek
I use 4 HDs and superdrive and Combo drive. In my opinion it is a step back in design and functionality.
Click to expand...

Then just tell me how the enclosure is supposed to look like with that many drive bays and maybe 6 PCI slots to satisfy the other fraction that is complaining too about the design?

The G5 enclosure is highly optimized for cooling efficency with a normal air flow. Did you ever dare to taker a closer look at the way they designed the inside of the machine? It is just wonderful compared to the standard PC enclosure and even the old G4 enclosures. To call that a step back is ignorant. The side cover is not attached anymore to the enclosure? Big deal! You still can access everything easily. The harddrives you just slide in, no cables, you don't even need a screwdriver... Really bad functionality, huh?

I have a SuperDrive in my Quicksilver and I actually never missed a second optical drive in my G4, so what is your special task, that cries for 2 optical drives?

You have 4 internal harddrives? Amazing! What are they good for except making a lot of noise? I don't know anybody who is in need to have more than 500GB of internal HD space for data he is actually working(!) on. This is all bull-****ting (sorry). If you need that much space to archive things, get an (or several) external Firewire drive(s) and connect it when you need it and just keep the data on yoru internal drives that you are working with (like everybody else). But considering 500GB of space, I hardly can believe that anybody who uses the computer normally would run out of space anytime soon. Man, 500GB equals the content of 70 regular movie DVDs... who needs that much space internally at the given time as a pro and not as a collector?

groovebuster
 
I am agreeing with groovebuster on some levels however I disagree with your statement on needing that much space. As someone who actually tried doing video, I know how quickly a hard drive can fill up with high quality video. People need space especially those in the video field, and for apple to disregard a market they claim to be tight with seems careless at best.

Like many Apple products, the G5 is the epitome of great design, and yet also a lack of foresight.
 
Originally posted by tazo
As someone who actually tried doing video, I know how quickly a hard drive can fill up with high quality video. People need space especially those in the video field, and for apple to disregard a market they claim to be tight with seems careless at best.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with your disagreement! ;)

I am editing video myself. Semi-professional video editing is mostly done with the DV standard. 1 hour of video in DV equals about 10GB on your harddisk. I don't see why you would need the space for about 30 hours of video and more on your harddrive permanently, even if you are working on several projects at a time. It takes you 30 hours in first place to get all the stuff onto your machine from your cameras. Finished or halted projects go on an external harddrive or are archived on DVDs and are not collecting dust on your harddrive. It would be maybe convenient to be that lazy, but it is unprofessional in some way (a hard drive crash and boooom, ... all your projects including the finished ones are gone). I don't see any reason why Apple should screw up a really amazing design of an enclosure just to please the few people who are too lazy to spring clean their harddrives after a project is done.

Overall I have 200GB of internal disk space on 2 harddrives in that particular Quicksilver (I own two) and so far I never was running out of disk space because a project became too big... If it was always because I didn't get rid of old projects that actually didn't have any reason anymore to reside on the internal drives.

The high end professional video editing (and music recording) is a different matter. There you need high bandwidth and you are dealing with huge amounts of data. But(!) for those people an external RAID would make much more sense anyway. That's why you have the option for a fibre channel card on the G5s to connect an Xraid. That is the really professional solution. So calling that neglecting a whole market is a little bit weird and I can't really follow you on that one.

To squeeze everything possible into one huge enclosure is inefficient, not at least for the design of such a work station.

groovebuster
 
Originally posted by Biggywama
while theoretically you may never have to install a new PCI card or hard drive
Click to expand...

Many have argued of the probable unneed to upgrade past a relatively low level (more than 2 HD, using a second 5 1/4" bay -which, at least in PC, is not exclusive to optical drives-), etc.

So the only thing that differentiates e/iMacs to high-end models, according to Apple's marketing, is raw power?

I know most of the people will never use all of their free PCI slots, or optical/har drive bays, but I always thought that the point of it (a tower) opposed to a closed design such as the xMacs was the CHOICE of wide expandability, wether or not the average user would take profit from it.
 
Originally posted by groovebuster


I have a SuperDrive in my Quicksilver and I actually never missed a second optical drive in my G4, so what is your special task, that cries for 2 optical drives?

You have 4 internal harddrives? Amazing! What are they good for except making a lot of noise? I don't know anybody who is in need to have more than 500GB of internal HD space for data he is actually working(!) on. This is all bull-****ting (sorry).

who needs that much space internally at the given time as a pro and not as a collector?

groovebuster
Click to expand...

1. CD performance of DVD-RWs is poor.

2. The fact that you don't know anybody who needs that much storage doesn't mean there isn't anyone. It only states, that, as you say, you don't know .

As an audio pro I have 380GB attached to my QS and I would like to use my old IDE 133 based drives with the new G5. Noise outside the computer is an issue in a recording studio, and killing fan noise can be costly.
 
Originally posted by pianojoe
1. CD performance of DVD-RWs is poor.
Click to expand...

I don't want to sound ignorant, but what are you doing with CDs, that the performance of DVD-RW is not enough? Copying some samples? Or do you mean burning performance? Hmmm... since I am also burning CDs with my DVD-RW on a daily basis, I don't see the big advantage of having a CD burned in 2 minutes instead of 5, since it's done in the background while I go on working anyway...

Originally posted by pianojoe
2. The fact that you don't know anybody who needs that much storage doesn't mean there isn't anyone. It only states, that, as you say, you don't know .
Click to expand...

I didn't say that I don't know anybody who needs that much storage, I said I don't know anybody who needs that much storage on internal hard drives.

You are implying that I don't know a lot about how pros are working and that I don't know some either. Well, I am a pro myself and also know loads of them.... sorry to disappoint you on that one! ;)

Originally posted by pianojoe
As an audio pro I have 380GB attached to my QS and I would like to use my old IDE 133 based drives with the new G5. Noise outside the computer is an issue in a recording studio, and killing fan noise can be costly.
Click to expand...

Exactly! Noise is an issue! That's why they designed the enclosre the way it is: to make it as silent as possible. What's the point of having 4 drive bays for HDs, when those puppies are as loud as the first G4 MDDs then? What would be the benefit? So get rid of your old IDE drives (or use them as external drives in the future for backups and emergencies) and get 500GB internal disk space on just 2 drives inside the box and you'll be happy!

BTW, one of my best friends is a music producer and owns a studio himself and for years I worked as a pro musician myself, until our daughter was born and I had to make ends meet financially to feed 3 people (99% of the musicians should know what I am talking about ;) ). I wonder how he can be OK then with about 320GB diskspace since a while now?

This is real curiosity and no offense intended: what are you doing with 380GB so that it is not enough maybe and what is the big deal to get rid of your old HDs to go with 500GB internal disk space in the G5s?

groovebuster
 
Originally posted by elmimmo
So the only thing that differentiates e/iMacs to high-end models, according to Apple's marketing, is raw power?
Click to expand...

Errm... well, 3 PCI slots, a second harddrive, 8 RAM slots and an AGP slot for upgrading the video card if necessary is no differentiation? :confused:

Originally posted by elmimmo
I know most of the people will never use all of their free PCI slots, or optical/har drive bays, but I always thought that the point of it (a tower) opposed to a closed design such as the xMacs was the CHOICE of wide expandability, wether or not the average user would take profit from it.
Click to expand...

The expandability is there. It is just that Apple doesn't see the need to sacrifice an amazing design of an enclosure for peripherals that could be connected via FireWire as well and also only need to be connected and switched on the moment they are needed. If Apple would always consider the eventualities of using a specific hardware once a month and that this hardware needs to be inside the enclosure they would end up with a real "tower", being 5' high, sounding like a jet engine and eating huge amounts of electricity. There is just no benefit in doing so. If you need a second optical drive for example, just connect it for the time you need it and store it in the closet again afterwards. In the enclosure only those hardware components remain, that are needed ongoing while working and that is pretty much what they put into their design anyway. Or is there anything else you need for a normal workflow besides one optical drive and 2 harddrives in your machine? And for any connection to the "outside" that is not covered by FireWire or USB you have the PCI slots. And 3 should be enough in 99% of the cases. If not, get an expansion bay... but again it would be unreasonable to sacrifice a brilliant design to these 1 or less % of the users, making the machine bigger, louder and more expensive for everybody...

groovebuster
 
Originally posted by groovebuster
Man, 500GB equals the content of 70 regular movie DVDs... who needs that much space internally at the given time as a pro and not as a collector?
Click to expand...

Actually more like about 100 dvds (4.7GB per dvd), which only makes your case stronger :)
 
Aesthetically, the G5 is growing on me. At first, I thought WTF?! Then the ingenious wind tunnel design made itself apparent, and I ebgan to like the design. But, the aesthetic for the optical drive ruins it. I think Apple really could have seamlessly integrated the optical drive cover into the mesh front. Maybe have a thin brushed metal around the edge (so as not the scratch yourself when handling the drive) but have the rest of the optical be the same mesh aesthetic as the rest of the case. Also, the bigger holes in the back are necessary to minimize noise. Apple could have just done away with grilles entirely, creating massive gaping holes, but that's not too safe for some users. A better aesthetic could have been to support a cloth filter which covered the entire back, save the ports, on a frame inside the G5 (e.g. Coolermaster front case fan cover). It may not be mesh, but at least it'd be uniform.

Pet peeve: they could have relocated the front port cluster to a better place. I don't know at which place it would look much better, but it definitely isn't perfect.
 
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