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Originally posted by i_wolf
I disagree but then again i'm a newbie. 1..8
...
Finally just because we hear about a new 'G5' type processor from IBM now does not mean that apple has only been made aware of this now.... its likely that they have been prepping for a launch since last year
Again with the PC side moving to 64bit and gaining hype for 64bit computing "Opteron", "Itanium 2". For advertising sake apple need to get a 64bit part out the door ASAP.
Again this is just my two cents worth...... but i think it would be a financial disaster ...

Good thoughts! I'll add that key is the technology being ready. IBM's and Apple's decision regarding investment and future products such as the Power4 for desktops were made months and months ago. It would be hard to affect the release date by weeks, much less months - there are only so many capable engineers and other resources. I'm sure that Apple - Steve Jobs - would have given us 2.4Mhz PPCs years ago if they could, but NOW is not a bad time!
 
G5 Soon

There are many opinions, but from what we know now about IBM's new processor, I think a scenario must pass two tests to make sense.

1) Apple will announce the G5 processor before October 15th. There is no way Steve Jobs would let this processor be examined in detail before he gets a chance to tell us all about it. (Maybe this early revelation of the processor came sooner than planned.) There is no rule about when a new processor can be discussed on that Forum. A G5 could be in pilot production now, for all we know.

2) The scenario must account for the difference in system interface between a current G4 and the new G5. Likely, these cannot share a common motherboard, or support the same speed RAM, or interface to other system chips in the same way. If this is true, the current G4 and new G5 would not mix well in a PowerMac lineup, with low end and high end models.

One scenario that passes the tests is where Apple introduces a new high-end G5 Mac. It might be in a 2U or 3U rackmount enclosure, but there could be both a server and a workstation version of it. In the future, the G5 surely will find its way into PowerMacs, maybe after IBM is supplying G4s with the same system interface. For now, the PowerMacs may get speed bumps and enhancements of the motherboard. Such a scenario means a gradual moving away from Motorola, and beginning to use IBM chips, which seems most likely.
 
Re: G5 in January, Awesome G4s next week

Originally posted by rice_web
Here's my little roadmap for Apple products (in this case, the eMac would likely stay just behind the iMac in terms of speed):

Mid-August:
- PowerMacs reach 1.33GHz
- 166MHz System Bus
- 333MHz DDR Memory

September:
- 1GHz PowerBook

October:
- iMacs reach 1GHz
- Bump to 133MHz system bus
- DDR implementation similar to Xserve
- iBooks reach 800MHz, still G3s
- Classic iMac discontinued

January:
- G5 announced (from IBM)
- Runs at speeds up to 1.5GHz
- 64-bit processing
- PowerBook bumped to 1.2GHz (still G4)
- DDR in the PowerBooks

February:
- iBook moved to G4 processor, no MHz jump

March:
- iMacs bumped to 1.2GHz

April:
- iBooks reach 1GHz

i also like your roadmap very much

but i think it is a little optomistic, especially any new g4 this month...but i hope i am wrong
 
Re: Powermacs This Month

Originally posted by iJon
I work for an authrorized Apple Dealer. We have been told by our apple rep for our region when the new powermacs will come out. He didn't come out and say it (probably because he isnt suppose to), but he basically hinted it to us. New Powermacs will come out on Aug. 24 along with Jaguar so they will be able to ship together. This for all you people that thought the powermacs were gonna come out like 4 days ago. Anyways, something to consider, Steve Jobs said himself that they will never introduce Powermacs on a Macworld or special event anymore. when they do this big companys keep buying, just thought i would let you guys know that. anyways, i wasnt told specs on teh computers though, but they will be out aug. 24th. look forward to it.

iJon

Apple will not release the new G4 on August 24th, they never will release it only because they will bring out the G5. I have a friend who is good family friends with the vice president of Apple. He told him that they are done with the G4 and will move on the the G5 (for the pro line). I am guessing that they will ship the G5 with Jaguar on the 24th. He didn't say when they would ship them but he did say that they will ship with Jaguar, so I dont think that it will come out before then. A lot of you probably think I'm writing a bunch a BS but this is what my friend told me, and he wouldn't lie.
 
there's no g5 this month. if you're waiting on buying a new mac because you want a g5, you'll be new-mac-less for a long, long while. get a g4 and enjoy it!

new power mac g4s, new and improved, as widely reported, are probably going to be introduced early next week.

finally, you can go out and buy one!

imagine if the "buy-or-don't-buy-on-rumours" people were money managers. yikes!
 
Re: Re: Powermacs This Month

Originally posted by TRyan


Apple will not release the new G4 on August 24th, they never will release it only because they will bring out the G5. I have a friend who is good family friends with the vice president of Apple. He told him that they are done with the G4 and will move on the the G5 (for the pro line). I am guessing that they will ship the G5 with Jaguar on the 24th. He didn't say when they would ship them but he did say that they will ship with Jaguar, so I dont think that it will come out before then. A lot of you probably think I'm writing a bunch a BS but this is what my friend told me, and he wouldn't lie.

hmmm... his credibility seems a little shaky since he doesn't even seem to know that a publicly traded company has more than just one vice-president. Who is this Vice President???
Fred Anderson, Exec VP?
Tim Cook, VP worldwide sales and ops?
Nancy Heinen, VP general counsel?
Ron Johnson, VP, retail?
Peter Oppenheimer, VP fincance?
Jon Rubinstein, VP Hardware Engineering?
Phil Schiller, VP product marketing?
Sina Tamaddon, VP apps?
Avi Tevanian Jr, VP software engineering?
 
not that i am quite sure of the validity of this argument, but what about the many, many *other* (non-executive/senior) vice presidents?
 
The day of opinion judgment draws close...

I can't wait until they release their next line of G4s/G5s/Tanks (As some of you would have us believe), and we can all criticize the various "Friends of friends'" reliability and whose Apple Retailer isn't from an alternate reality.

Fairly exciting, really. I just found this site 2 or 3 weeks ago, and it's good to see how many people are as excited about these kinds of Apple products as I am!

Let the skepticism soon begin! :D
 
Originally posted by merges
not that i am quite sure of the validity of this argument, but what about the many, many *other* (non-executive/senior) vice presidents?

Well that just supports my argument that if the friend thinks that apple has only one vice president, he obviously either doesn't know what he is talking about, or that friend is lying because if he was that good a friend with this mysterious vice president, he would know what department the guy is a VP of.
 
Originally posted by topicolo


Well that just supports my argument that if the friend thinks that apple has only one vice president, he obviously either doesn't know what he is talking about, or that friend is lying because if he was that good a friend with this mysterious vice president, he would know what department the guy is a VP of.

I just thought I would share what I know with everyone. Are you anti-G5 or something? That is all I know, but, now matter how many vice-presidents there are, they would know. I can guess that SJ tells his vice-president(s) what is going on. Wouldn't you? Well will see soon, won't we?
 
I think that the predictions about a new PowerMac next week, and the G5's early next year are pretty accurate... I'm not sure if it'll be in January when they'll release new PowerMacs, but you never know... Maybe that's why Apple expected their sales to be flat, because even though they will have new PowerMacs next week, they will just keep Apple's sales from going into a slump, until they release new processors in their PowerMacs...

What might happen, is that Apple might start to make their hardware more upgradeable, so that if you buy a new PowerMac next week, you can still upgrade it with a processor module, or something like that... Or, Apple might introduce a new generation of Macs, called the ProMac, making the PowerMac the middle-line product.
 
Two Conclusions

The brief description from IBM about a new 64 bit leaves us with two, almost obvious, conclusions. Yet many reject one or both of these conclusions, which may seem too good to be true. Others may dare to hope that they are true. The first, conclusion is that the new 64 bit PPC processor is designed specifically for Apple, in cooperation with Apple. The second is that a new G5 and a G5 Mac will be announced most likely within 2 months. Anything more is speculation, about how this will happen and what products are involved.

Consider the first conclusion. Does it fit the events of the last couple years, and does it make sense? Since going with Motorola, Apple has had problems and disappointments -- the 500 MHz goof up and then a painfully slow rise in performance, as Intel and AMD took off. Apple went from toasting Pentiums to being toasted. Surely, Steve Jobs is one to take action when there is a sign of trouble. (Consider the clones.) One sign of action was when Apple began to hire microprocessor engineers; we knew something was up. So what would we expected to hear if Apple indeed did begin working with IBM at that time? Nothing, absolutely nothing at all. If a company plans to ditch it main supplier, they keep it as secret as possible. It takes a long time to develop a new processor, and Apple had to stay competitive in the mean time. Even the first hint of a new Apple processor from IBM would not be known until it was ready to release. Add to all this the fact that the processor description is exactly what Apple wants. A 64 bit G5 with a velocity engine and the power to run all those new high-end applications that Apple has been buying up. We pretty much know Apple is after the film industry, and this will let them do it. So far, everything makes sense, but is it the only answer? Well, what are the alternatives?

Maybe IBM designed it for someone else, or IBM has plans to use it in their own new product. Possible, but where is any evidence at all? Maybe IBM is wooing Apple and hopes Apple will design a new Mac to use it. Does anyone seriously think this is how IBM makes its new product decisions? Maybe the processor is for network and communications fields. Then why does IBM state that it is for desktops and entry level servers? It is not even an embedded design.

The second conclusion just makes the most sense if we accept the first. We know for sure that Steve wants to break the news about a G5 first. Anyone disagree with that? So the announcement needs to happen well before October 15th. Since speculation will build after the hint we got from IBM, it will likely be very soon. The forum in October will not be like Motorola talking about future PPC development, which was always going on and no one knew for sure if and when it would happen. Here we have a major switch of players, coupled with a huge leap forward in the PPC family. This is a much bigger deal, and folks will be asking a lot of questions. By the time IBM finishes their presentation, no one will need an announcement to know who the processor is for. Possibly the agenda for the forum was posted too soon. The news stories of IBM wooing Apple may actually be providing good damage control for Apple. It's very possible the G5 is in pilot production now. IBM does not have to wait for the new plant to be on-line. They have been making processors for years without it. The new plant will have benefits for the future, however.
 
Originally posted by TRyan


I just thought I would share what I know with everyone. Are you anti-G5 or something? That is all I know, but, now matter how many vice-presidents there are, they would know. I can guess that SJ tells his vice-president(s) what is going on. Wouldn't you? Well will see soon, won't we?

Anti-G5? ha! don't make me laugh. I was only questioning your source since it didn't seem like he knew what he was talking about.
 
It is funny how everyone is trying to make this new ibm chip out to be the next G5. First there really is no concrete proof no matter how "obvious" it might look. Second, unless this is something that has been in the works for awhile, I'd guess that this might be more of a G5+, G6, or other naming scheme for Apple's systems. These things take time.
 
Originally posted by merges
imagine if the "buy-or-don't-buy-on-rumours" people were money managers. yikes!

Funny thing is, most investors "manage" their money on this basis - it's been a key factor in the dot.com/tech meltdown. Business and technology are completely different, and being good w/ one of them is no preditctor of success w/ the other.

Disagree (respectfully) w/ the rest of your post. ;)
 
Originally posted by Cappy
It is funny how everyone is trying to make this new ibm chip out to be the next G5. First there really is no concrete proof no matter how "obvious" it might look. Second, unless this is something that has been in the works for awhile, I'd guess that this might be more of a G5+, G6, or other naming scheme for Apple's systems. These things take time.
The only concrete proof we get is when Apple announces it. Who has concrete proof of anything discussed here? Second, it has likely been in the works for one or two years now. Ever since Steve Jobs realized that he may never get a G5 from Motorola.
 
Originally posted by alex_ant
Captain Obvious! Where were you during all those Apple-must-switch-to-x86-or-they-will-die threads? We could have used your help! :D
Sorry - got turned around on the elevator, ended up on the wrong planet. ;) :D

No worries - you guys did just fine! Besides, I'm *sure* there'll be another round....:rolleyes:
 
A little history...

Back a few decades ago, when the DOJ actually had teeth, they cracked the whip on IBM for announcing products Loooong before they were ready to ship. This is the basis of the term FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) that you hear now and then. IBM was the master of this long, long before Microsoft stole their playbook and ran with it. IBM's reps would use this FUD to convince customers that anyone else's solutions would not work with the customers new (or next) IBM hardware.

Part of the judgement handed down said that IBM could only announce products that were ready to ship imminently. (I think this was determined to mean 60 days) Now, while this judgement is old, and probably expired... it has governed the way IBM does business for the last quarter century... be it habit, fear, whatever.

The point of this is that unlike a lot of companies, when IBM talks about a new product, it's pretty much complete. Note that there is a difference between announcing a new TECHNOLOGY, and announcing a new PRODUCT. This CPU would be the latter. It will be ready RSN. (Real Soon Now)
 
Originally posted by Cappy
It is funny how everyone is trying to make this new ibm chip out to be the next G5. First there really is no concrete proof no matter how "obvious" it might look.

I'll grant you the point on lack of proof - but the fact is that the new IBM chip - as reported - is an obvious natural fit for the PowerMacs; so much so that its appearance in the upcoming round of PMs wouldn't surprise me. On the contrary, if Apple failed to use this chip once it's available (again, assuming that it is as reported so far), in order to stay with MOT's G4, I'd consider that an act of stunning stupidity.

As for whether this chip is, or is not, "the" G5 - well damn, man, I think it'll do, don't you?
Second, unless this is something that has been in the works for awhile, I'd guess that this might be more of a...naming scheme.... These things take time.

Unless I miss my guess, Apple has been actively pursuing the next big kick-in-the-butt for the last 2-2.5 years. If their efforts have been in the direction of enabling a scaled-down POWER4 in that time (as opposed to scaling up from th G4), I think it entirely possible for said chip to be availabe in quantity around now.

Still, the most provocative comment so far on the pending PMs:
what they did say was that they 'have seen the new powermacs' and they told me that 'all the rumors are right, in principle, just not in the details'".

It's things like this that cause unrest....:D
 
finally a few newbies that i can tolerate. snoopy i really liked your comment about apple keeping it secret. if they were public, moto would have brough on a sh*tstorm, and we would probably all be running on 602MHz G4s and hoping and praying for the next generation 606MHz ones :rolleyes:

Captain Obvious, nice sig.
 
Not completely on-topic, but in a conference held on January 1998, Arnoldo Hax, former MIT dean and financial consultor for Motorola, stated that the company did not see good sales coming from the Macintosh platform and would subsequently lower the research and eventually stop producing chips for them. I can't recall dates, but it seems the time would be right about now...

This is not a rumor but a fact, if you don't beleive me just look him up and ask him directly :D
 
Re: Conflicting dates may not conflict

Originally posted by Haberdasher
Just a thought...what if Apple announced new PwrMac G4s this Tuesday, allowing time for pre-orders, but didn't ship until Jaguar did, enabling them to include it on every machine? That would be pretty cool. :D

It would make sense for them to prepare the world for the machines' arrival. It would be good P.R. to ship them with 10.2 instead of 10.1.5 and a coupon. They seem to learn from each P.R. faux pas but then, are doomed to try another instead.
 
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