Sorry to burst your bubble, but my Mac crashes just as often as my W2K box at work, with the x86 rebooting faster than my Mac in those instances. Nor is the UI less usable, I'd say in some cases the opposite is true. Switching between tasks is faster on a W2K box as on my Mac where I have to cycle through the dock.
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G5? Not Quite...
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but my Mac crashes just as often as my W2K box at work, with the x86 rebooting faster than my Mac in those instances. Nor is the UI less usable, I'd say in some cases the opposite is true. Switching between tasks is faster on a W2K box as on my Mac where I have to cycle through the dock.
solvs
macrumors 603
I think we can all agree we love the Mac OS. Why else would we be here? And we hate the way M$ does business.
But a lot of us loyalists, who once touted the superiority of the hardware, software, and the company in general, seem to be waivering. Apple isn't the only one running a business in an "economic slowdown". Most of us are at least budgeting, and need the most bang for our bucks.
Sorry to tell you, but Wintels are the competition. If Apple wants to win consumers, and keep us non-zealot supporters, they need to wake up. If Motorola is lagging, find other ways to make things look better. Faster FSB, memory, IDE, overall system improvements. The cases are neat and all, but what about what's inside? The software is Fantastic, give us the hardware to prove it. We all dislike Windows.
And M$. So why conduct business like they do? I support them buying up other companies to innovate (Apple, not M$), and giving us new software solutions, but at what costs. Should we just accept it, because it's the lesser of 2 evils? Should we just say, "well that's the fastest Mac there is, so I'll buy it". Or "it looks so stylish, who cares if it's still using last years technology". Why become complacent with the obsolesencs?
Should we have to over pay for things that others offer for free, or at least cheaper? People are mad because they feel extorted, and dammit, they have every right to be pissed. They paid extra because they thought they were getting more. Now they're getting the old "bait and switch". The extras of .Mac are worth $100/year, if they work. But what about the "free for life" e-mail. Or paying $1,000 for a new OS X.2 Server Liscense 2 months after buying a $4,000+ xServe? Or even FULL PRICE for an upgrade. They want us to buy hardware before an Expo, then punish us if we do.
See if anybody buys a new Mac after they announce 10.3, but before they deliver it. Next it will be XP type registration practices. Isn't this why we're trying to move away M$. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't get new customers by p*ssing people off, and you lose those that used to support you. How many of us used to rave to our friends, family, and co-workers about Apples? How many of us now think twice before recommending them? They want to switch people, give them a better reason to want to switch.
They want to move into the Pro realm, give us Pro hardware. Who cares if you have a 1.2 GHz CPU, if it's surrounded by ATA/133 (which really is better than ATA/66), 120 GB+ Hard Drives, PC2700 DDR, 166 FSB (x2), 2 CD Drives, USB 2, built-in Bluetooth, etc. It matters now. You can do it. How many of us use GB Ethernet, or used USB or FW when they first came out? You can't use modern day specs!?!
You want to charge us more, give us more. All you zealots can flame away. "Apple good, Wintel bad, must hide head in sand". You should see what the other side is saying, I'm a zealot to them. But I'm just trying to be a realist here. I want a new Mac, but nothing on the current roster suits my needs. I'm not paying $2,000 for style. I can't afford to. Not many can (and if you can, lucky you). Mr. Jobs, give me something fairly decent and I'll take a (slight) performance hit for the extra stability and ease of use.
It's my $$$, I'll take it where I think it would serve me best. And telling people to just go buy a PC doesn't help. Actually it just proves my point. Because that's exactly what people do. This isn't a private club, it's a business claiming to want new customers, and in doing so doesn't seem to be catering to it's current base. If anything, it's p*ssing off it's most important clientel by making a lot of really bad choices. We're not happy, and we, the customer, are what matter.
Voice your opinions people. And b*tch all you want, until someone listens. Because no, it's not "good enough".
We're mad as Hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore.
But a lot of us loyalists, who once touted the superiority of the hardware, software, and the company in general, seem to be waivering. Apple isn't the only one running a business in an "economic slowdown". Most of us are at least budgeting, and need the most bang for our bucks.
Sorry to tell you, but Wintels are the competition. If Apple wants to win consumers, and keep us non-zealot supporters, they need to wake up. If Motorola is lagging, find other ways to make things look better. Faster FSB, memory, IDE, overall system improvements. The cases are neat and all, but what about what's inside? The software is Fantastic, give us the hardware to prove it. We all dislike Windows.
And M$. So why conduct business like they do? I support them buying up other companies to innovate (Apple, not M$), and giving us new software solutions, but at what costs. Should we just accept it, because it's the lesser of 2 evils? Should we just say, "well that's the fastest Mac there is, so I'll buy it". Or "it looks so stylish, who cares if it's still using last years technology". Why become complacent with the obsolesencs?
Should we have to over pay for things that others offer for free, or at least cheaper? People are mad because they feel extorted, and dammit, they have every right to be pissed. They paid extra because they thought they were getting more. Now they're getting the old "bait and switch". The extras of .Mac are worth $100/year, if they work. But what about the "free for life" e-mail. Or paying $1,000 for a new OS X.2 Server Liscense 2 months after buying a $4,000+ xServe? Or even FULL PRICE for an upgrade. They want us to buy hardware before an Expo, then punish us if we do.
See if anybody buys a new Mac after they announce 10.3, but before they deliver it. Next it will be XP type registration practices. Isn't this why we're trying to move away M$. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't get new customers by p*ssing people off, and you lose those that used to support you. How many of us used to rave to our friends, family, and co-workers about Apples? How many of us now think twice before recommending them? They want to switch people, give them a better reason to want to switch.
They want to move into the Pro realm, give us Pro hardware. Who cares if you have a 1.2 GHz CPU, if it's surrounded by ATA/133 (which really is better than ATA/66), 120 GB+ Hard Drives, PC2700 DDR, 166 FSB (x2), 2 CD Drives, USB 2, built-in Bluetooth, etc. It matters now. You can do it. How many of us use GB Ethernet, or used USB or FW when they first came out? You can't use modern day specs!?!
You want to charge us more, give us more. All you zealots can flame away. "Apple good, Wintel bad, must hide head in sand". You should see what the other side is saying, I'm a zealot to them. But I'm just trying to be a realist here. I want a new Mac, but nothing on the current roster suits my needs. I'm not paying $2,000 for style. I can't afford to. Not many can (and if you can, lucky you). Mr. Jobs, give me something fairly decent and I'll take a (slight) performance hit for the extra stability and ease of use.
It's my $$$, I'll take it where I think it would serve me best. And telling people to just go buy a PC doesn't help. Actually it just proves my point. Because that's exactly what people do. This isn't a private club, it's a business claiming to want new customers, and in doing so doesn't seem to be catering to it's current base. If anything, it's p*ssing off it's most important clientel by making a lot of really bad choices. We're not happy, and we, the customer, are what matter.
Voice your opinions people. And b*tch all you want, until someone listens. Because no, it's not "good enough".
We're mad as Hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore.
Re: Re: man....
Man it's hilarious how you insult me about understanding what I read. It's funny because in your own insult, you apparantly have a hard time WRITING!
How is the stuff called? --wtf?
Man it's hilarious how you insult me about understanding what I read. It's funny because in your own insult, you apparantly have a hard time WRITING!
How is the stuff called? --wtf?
wow! you make no sense at all!! - how about "Man, I have been working with Macs for 16 years..." I think that is what you meant!
Actually, I just like to have a good time. Sorry if that's not something you like to do.
OH MY GOSH!!! THIS IS TOO EASY!!!! Maybe if you could properly format your sentences!
Yes, a computer is a tool.... so... Would you keep using a hammer if every third time you hit a nail, the head came off? I don't think so! You would quickly throw it away and buy one that worked! Same thing with a PC.. why put up with it?
Why don't we leave this one alone.. I think it is you who is having problems spelling words...
Okay.. sorry. I keep forgetting that Microsoft DOWNGRADES Windows each time they put out a new OS. MY BAD!!!
Uh.. yeah! Me too! -- I'm glad you spelt "understanding" correct this time though! -- Keep it up!
So.. macs are slow "in general"? Or just in web-surfing? Can you make up your mind? We are all aware that Macs render web pages slower than PCs. I personally don't know why this is, but then again, I don't think it's that big of a deal. If you are talking about "Pro Users" like you've been saying, then I don't think true professionals who use their computer to look at web pages are really the "Pro Users" you are talking about. So are we talking about "Pro Users" or people that need the fastest porn viewer they can find?
hmm... as far as I "heared"??? good one!
I am starting to wonder how anything works out for you with that kind of writing ability!
Exactly! I'll by a mac instead! Why would I waste my time with a PC if I had the choice? (Unless of course I don't know any better.)
uh.. again.. the pros who look at web pages all day, right? Okay, I think I got it...finally..
Can someone please tell me what he just said?
If there are people like you out there, than I'll believe anything!
Yes Mam!
Re: man....
Sorry, got to come out of lurkdom to reply to this - I bought OSX to run audio apps. I *only* use my Mac to run Logic Audio. I bought the full 10.1 release to support Apple, but they never got the CoreAudio support into the operating system. Logic (bought now by Apple curiously) will not work until 10.2 as it needs the new CoreAudio, so they expect me to shell out the same again! I dont want new features, just the support that has been missing and promised since OSX's inception. Should I be forced to pay again? If they put the missing CoreAudio into 10.1 I'll happily use 10.1 and forget Jagwire. I am not a happy bunny at the moment.
~Pev
Sorry, got to come out of lurkdom to reply to this - I bought OSX to run audio apps. I *only* use my Mac to run Logic Audio. I bought the full 10.1 release to support Apple, but they never got the CoreAudio support into the operating system. Logic (bought now by Apple curiously) will not work until 10.2 as it needs the new CoreAudio, so they expect me to shell out the same again! I dont want new features, just the support that has been missing and promised since OSX's inception. Should I be forced to pay again? If they put the missing CoreAudio into 10.1 I'll happily use 10.1 and forget Jagwire. I am not a happy bunny at the moment.
~Pev
Real G5 processor
The real G5 processor code is 8540 in my opinion and the first specs are at this address: http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sp...sp?code=MPC8540&nodeId=03M943030450467M98657.
The full features has hidden. There are the " - "
What do you think?
The real G5 processor code is 8540 in my opinion and the first specs are at this address: http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sp...sp?code=MPC8540&nodeId=03M943030450467M98657.
The full features has hidden. There are the " - "
What do you think?
core audio
I thought (although I am not a pro audio user) that I had read that the core audio in OS X 10.1 was amazingly good.
- Incredible Latence -
-All I've ever heard is that doing audio on a PC can be done, and maybe for cheaper, but stability has always been an issue doing intensive audio on windows. Most professional Studios and sound-engineer school labs use g4's, but I personally don't have the experience in audio as many people do.
What exactly doesn't work in 10.1 that you need? I'm just curious...
I thought (although I am not a pro audio user) that I had read that the core audio in OS X 10.1 was amazingly good.
- Incredible Latence -
- and here's a thing about Logic -
-All I've ever heard is that doing audio on a PC can be done, and maybe for cheaper, but stability has always been an issue doing intensive audio on windows. Most professional Studios and sound-engineer school labs use g4's, but I personally don't have the experience in audio as many people do.
What exactly doesn't work in 10.1 that you need? I'm just curious...
Gigaflops
I've seen the numbers on Apple's "gigaflop" approach, but have never seen a similar spec for an x86 system measured in gigaflops.
Anyone seen any?
I mean, overall system sustained throughput in floating point operations/second. I've seen it for GPU's, but not for the overal system like Apple claims.
I've seen the numbers on Apple's "gigaflop" approach, but have never seen a similar spec for an x86 system measured in gigaflops.
Anyone seen any?
I mean, overall system sustained throughput in floating point operations/second. I've seen it for GPU's, but not for the overal system like Apple claims.
groovebuster
macrumors 65816
groovebuster
macrumors 65816
Re: core audio
It is not! Too many things still don't work properly on the system level. That is the reason why Logic and Cubase for example are not finished so far for MacOS X. In the given implementation it's useless for the pro apps. The quoted text is just marketing bla bla by Apple! Check out the newsgroups for Logic and Cubase and you will find more details on that problem.
10.2 will finally provide the audio core that is necessary to make those apps working.
groovebuster
It is not! Too many things still don't work properly on the system level. That is the reason why Logic and Cubase for example are not finished so far for MacOS X. In the given implementation it's useless for the pro apps. The quoted text is just marketing bla bla by Apple! Check out the newsgroups for Logic and Cubase and you will find more details on that problem.
10.2 will finally provide the audio core that is necessary to make those apps working.
groovebuster
Just like a lot of pro graphicdesign users, a lot of pro audio users stick to OS 9 for now for various reasons.
groovebuster
macrumors 65816
Exactly... I use Cubase for my recording sessions on OS 9. Since there isn't Logic or Cubase for OS X so far I don't have choice anyway.
In most cases you can work already in MacOS X with graphic apps, just that Xpress is missing still is annoying. As well as the printer support... but with CUPS in MacOS X also that should be history soon. I really hope that Quark is finishing really soon so that I can get rid of all the OS 9 <-> Classic/MacOS X switching finally...
groovebuster
good points by groove
Despite Groovebuster's grammatical madness and the flame war between he and DannyZR2, Groovebuster made an excellent point thematically in his first post in this thread (or is it the first post in this page of the thread?).
That is, there truly is a performance gap!!! Burying out heads in the 'productivity' mantra is misleading and a bit self-deluding. Yes, productivity is ultimately more important than performance specs. However, the benefits of 'productivity' are only meaningful if one can QUANTIFY them.
Yes, adding software and hardware to a Mac is radically simpler and more pain free than doing so on a Win-Don't machine. But, with Win2k and I assume XP, once one gets the system working, after adding something, it is in fact fairly reliable and productive. Once one is inside the application itself, much of the Win-Don't counter-intuitive clutter is out of the picture.
So, if one is adding hardware and software everyday, one ought to be able to quantify the productivity benefits of the Mac over the Win-Don't systems. However, if one is adding/removing stuff so often, I have to question how productive one can be using a different piece of hardware and software so often.
In production operations management, one tries to minimize start/stops because they incur downtime. Further, one is undoubtedly climbing a learning curve with use of new stuff.
Boiling this post down, adding and removing software and hardware over and over frequently doesn't sound like much of a productivity gain over that of a system that can crunch code 50% to 150% faster, depending upon the operations in question of course.
I find the posts stating that 'I'm going to the Windows platform if...' and all that a bit childish in the tone of some posters. Naturally, those whose livelihoods depend upon results must do what they must do to maximize the value that they can yield. If that means dumping MacOS because of the hardware, in terms of computational performance, that's just business.
We zealots are made stronger, ultimately, when we look at and discuss the cold hard numbers, even when, for the moment, they are discouraging. I'm sure Apple is more responsive to criticisms based upon quantifiable performance with relevance to Apple's target market than generalized complaints and desires that Mac systems simply be faster than Win-Don't systems.
One of the best posts that I've read in this forum recently illustrated the maximum computation throughput of G4 (CPU) as well as that of the main memory to CPU throughput. Yeah, its old news. But, its quantified and it speaks volumes!
Imagine Apple's PowerMac product management team drueling over some mystical PowerPC 75XX or 85XX that won't be ready until around Jan '03. Maybe they're thinking in this fictious scenario that they can get by with the current Mobo and speedbumped 7455's until then, sparing them the cost and hassle of introducing a new Mobo with the faster 7455s. They might be tempted to wait until then.
However, the zealots and a greater and greater of other Mac users, Mac-would-be users, and tech media folk are reporting that Apple's PowerMac's with PowerPC 7455 (?) are starved for data and the competing systems are not, making PowerMac's vastly inferior in an increasing number of different benchmarks. Consequently, fewer people are buying PowerMacs. And some are even 'going to the dark side'.
So, the word got out about where the performance gap is. Now Apple's product management is faced with an unsettling fact, regarding the premise of this fictious scenario that unless Apple sells a PowerMac with a new Mobo that eliminates the main memory to CPU bottleneck, people will still be reluctant to buy a PowerMac even if it had 2 GHz 7455's in them because of the bottleneck. What good is a hurry up and wait for more data system? They're reading periodicals and web articles stating that users get radically better performance from x86 systems with their significantly higher throughput main memory to CPU buses.
Yeah, the word has been out for some time. But now product management has an ass full of inventory that even the zealots are reluctant to buy.
No, I don't think we'll be waiting until early next year for the next revision to the Powermac line. As for the inventory, at some point, it costs Apple more to hold out and sell it than it does to radically discount it and sell a boat load of new PowerMac's.
I expect someone's ass is out the door at Apple, if inventory truly is the obstruction to a new PowerMac introduction. Apple has a world class inventory management system. But also, Apple has a long time-dishonored history of not utilizing primary (first hand) market research and depending upon market research firms with questionable methodologies.
What a rant, sorry this was so long. I hope you had something to eat while reading this post.
Despite Groovebuster's grammatical madness and the flame war between he and DannyZR2, Groovebuster made an excellent point thematically in his first post in this thread (or is it the first post in this page of the thread?).
That is, there truly is a performance gap!!! Burying out heads in the 'productivity' mantra is misleading and a bit self-deluding. Yes, productivity is ultimately more important than performance specs. However, the benefits of 'productivity' are only meaningful if one can QUANTIFY them.
Yes, adding software and hardware to a Mac is radically simpler and more pain free than doing so on a Win-Don't machine. But, with Win2k and I assume XP, once one gets the system working, after adding something, it is in fact fairly reliable and productive. Once one is inside the application itself, much of the Win-Don't counter-intuitive clutter is out of the picture.
So, if one is adding hardware and software everyday, one ought to be able to quantify the productivity benefits of the Mac over the Win-Don't systems. However, if one is adding/removing stuff so often, I have to question how productive one can be using a different piece of hardware and software so often.
In production operations management, one tries to minimize start/stops because they incur downtime. Further, one is undoubtedly climbing a learning curve with use of new stuff.
Boiling this post down, adding and removing software and hardware over and over frequently doesn't sound like much of a productivity gain over that of a system that can crunch code 50% to 150% faster, depending upon the operations in question of course.
I find the posts stating that 'I'm going to the Windows platform if...' and all that a bit childish in the tone of some posters. Naturally, those whose livelihoods depend upon results must do what they must do to maximize the value that they can yield. If that means dumping MacOS because of the hardware, in terms of computational performance, that's just business.
We zealots are made stronger, ultimately, when we look at and discuss the cold hard numbers, even when, for the moment, they are discouraging. I'm sure Apple is more responsive to criticisms based upon quantifiable performance with relevance to Apple's target market than generalized complaints and desires that Mac systems simply be faster than Win-Don't systems.
One of the best posts that I've read in this forum recently illustrated the maximum computation throughput of G4 (CPU) as well as that of the main memory to CPU throughput. Yeah, its old news. But, its quantified and it speaks volumes!
Imagine Apple's PowerMac product management team drueling over some mystical PowerPC 75XX or 85XX that won't be ready until around Jan '03. Maybe they're thinking in this fictious scenario that they can get by with the current Mobo and speedbumped 7455's until then, sparing them the cost and hassle of introducing a new Mobo with the faster 7455s. They might be tempted to wait until then.
However, the zealots and a greater and greater of other Mac users, Mac-would-be users, and tech media folk are reporting that Apple's PowerMac's with PowerPC 7455 (?) are starved for data and the competing systems are not, making PowerMac's vastly inferior in an increasing number of different benchmarks. Consequently, fewer people are buying PowerMacs. And some are even 'going to the dark side'.
So, the word got out about where the performance gap is. Now Apple's product management is faced with an unsettling fact, regarding the premise of this fictious scenario that unless Apple sells a PowerMac with a new Mobo that eliminates the main memory to CPU bottleneck, people will still be reluctant to buy a PowerMac even if it had 2 GHz 7455's in them because of the bottleneck. What good is a hurry up and wait for more data system? They're reading periodicals and web articles stating that users get radically better performance from x86 systems with their significantly higher throughput main memory to CPU buses.
Yeah, the word has been out for some time. But now product management has an ass full of inventory that even the zealots are reluctant to buy.
No, I don't think we'll be waiting until early next year for the next revision to the Powermac line. As for the inventory, at some point, it costs Apple more to hold out and sell it than it does to radically discount it and sell a boat load of new PowerMac's.
I expect someone's ass is out the door at Apple, if inventory truly is the obstruction to a new PowerMac introduction. Apple has a world class inventory management system. But also, Apple has a long time-dishonored history of not utilizing primary (first hand) market research and depending upon market research firms with questionable methodologies.
What a rant, sorry this was so long. I hope you had something to eat while reading this post.
groovebuster
macrumors 65816
Und jetzt mal in Deutsch... sorry!
Also manche Amis hier haben echt einen an der Bommel! Was glaubt der Typ eigentlich, wer er ist? Das ist nicht das erste Mal, dass ich auf so einen Wasserkopp hier treffe. Ich dachte immer, wir Deutschen können ignorant sein, aber was Du hier erlebst, da wundert einen gar nichts mehr... alles kleine Schorsch-Dabbeljuhs...
Whatever... let's see what August will bring for us mac users... 🙂
groovebuster
Also manche Amis hier haben echt einen an der Bommel! Was glaubt der Typ eigentlich, wer er ist? Das ist nicht das erste Mal, dass ich auf so einen Wasserkopp hier treffe. Ich dachte immer, wir Deutschen können ignorant sein, aber was Du hier erlebst, da wundert einen gar nichts mehr... alles kleine Schorsch-Dabbeljuhs...
Whatever... let's see what August will bring for us mac users... 🙂
groovebuster
ibjoshua
macrumors 6502a
Re: Re: Re: Re: man....
i think jerk summed it up. oh and Arschloch sounds about right.
and for the record i don't think either of you had very strong arguments. too much waffle
josh
out
you tell him groove!
perfectly understandable
a little more than here and there...... but that's not the point. I applaud anyone that learns another language and actually puts it to use.
i think jerk summed it up. oh and Arschloch sounds about right.
and for the record i don't think either of you had very strong arguments. too much waffle
josh
out
groovebuster
macrumors 65816
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: man....
Thanks for the flowers. My English was a lot better a while ago... but since I am not in North America anymore on a regular basis it got worse! 🙁
I just don't have the opportunity to practice anymore. After a while you start to do typical german mistakes again and you don't even notice... especially when you type fast sentence structure or irregular verbs are preferred obstacles. Most times I recognize mistakes myself after I read a text again, but normally I am too lazy then to edit the whole thing.
My wife is french canadian and she learned German almost perfectly in about 2 years. Something she can be really proud of since even some Germans have a lot of problems with the grammar of their own language, not to mention all the words with multiple meanings and irregular verbs...
People... learn languages, travel a lot and use them. The world appears in a totally different light when you experienced the way of life of other cultures.
groovebuster
Thanks for the flowers. My English was a lot better a while ago... but since I am not in North America anymore on a regular basis it got worse! 🙁
I just don't have the opportunity to practice anymore. After a while you start to do typical german mistakes again and you don't even notice... especially when you type fast sentence structure or irregular verbs are preferred obstacles. Most times I recognize mistakes myself after I read a text again, but normally I am too lazy then to edit the whole thing.
My wife is french canadian and she learned German almost perfectly in about 2 years. Something she can be really proud of since even some Germans have a lot of problems with the grammar of their own language, not to mention all the words with multiple meanings and irregular verbs...
People... learn languages, travel a lot and use them. The world appears in a totally different light when you experienced the way of life of other cultures.
groovebuster
Why can't you own both?
I mean seriously, think about it.
I know I have. I've been putting this off for months, but I think I might buy a PC, although I am not sure to what type as of yet. The reason I would think to do something like this is because Maya currently runs much better on a PC then it does a Mac. And for a cheaper price to boot (For the CPU). That doesn't mean I have to switch everything over ot PC, just Maya. And as of right now Maya unlimited isn't even available on a Mac.
That doesn't mean that I am "going to the Dark Side". It just means I'm using my head and actually weighing all possibilities. Which is more than I can say about some of the Apple/Windows fanboys I've seen running around these here parts. 😀
Apple has a little more time though to release a Pro Tower that would make me change my mind. Maya 4.5 comes out in Sept. I'll get the best CPU that is out at the time. PC or Mac. Doesn't matter. I want Maya, and to use it at it's best potential.
I mean seriously, think about it.
I know I have. I've been putting this off for months, but I think I might buy a PC, although I am not sure to what type as of yet. The reason I would think to do something like this is because Maya currently runs much better on a PC then it does a Mac. And for a cheaper price to boot (For the CPU). That doesn't mean I have to switch everything over ot PC, just Maya. And as of right now Maya unlimited isn't even available on a Mac.
That doesn't mean that I am "going to the Dark Side". It just means I'm using my head and actually weighing all possibilities. Which is more than I can say about some of the Apple/Windows fanboys I've seen running around these here parts. 😀
Apple has a little more time though to release a Pro Tower that would make me change my mind. Maya 4.5 comes out in Sept. I'll get the best CPU that is out at the time. PC or Mac. Doesn't matter. I want Maya, and to use it at it's best potential.
groovebuster
macrumors 65816
Re: Why can't you own both?
Exactly my opinion! I don't plan to throw out my Apple stuff completely, I will just maybe buy a PC as well. There is pressure now to make a decision because some jobs have to be done in about 2 months that need really performant hardware. If Apple has some new PMs who will meet the needs until then, I am fine to buy Macs again. If not, Mac and PC have to "snuggle up" a little bit in my studio! 😀 😉
Who knows... maybe they really like each other and I'll have some pocket PCs in a few months that run OS X on an AMD processor with Altivec unit!!! 😱 😀
groovebuster
Exactly my opinion! I don't plan to throw out my Apple stuff completely, I will just maybe buy a PC as well. There is pressure now to make a decision because some jobs have to be done in about 2 months that need really performant hardware. If Apple has some new PMs who will meet the needs until then, I am fine to buy Macs again. If not, Mac and PC have to "snuggle up" a little bit in my studio! 😀 😉
Who knows... maybe they really like each other and I'll have some pocket PCs in a few months that run OS X on an AMD processor with Altivec unit!!! 😱 😀
groovebuster
Just a little piece of information somewhat relevant to this thread.
The prototypes of the MPC 8560 will not be available until 2003.
Althought the MPC 8540 and MPC 8560 will never be used as a
desktop cpu, they may be an indication of the direction Motorola
and Apple are taking.
The prototypes of the MPC 8560 will not be available until 2003.
Althought the MPC 8540 and MPC 8560 will never be used as a
desktop cpu, they may be an indication of the direction Motorola
and Apple are taking.
eric_n_dfw
macrumors 68000
Re: Re: Re: 3ghz
This is something I've been harping about for OVER A YEAR NOW! I think I had read somewhere like anandtech.com or arstechnica.com that the AltiVec units on the G4, while vastly superior to the Intel and AMD SIMD units, are starved when it comes to RAM access speed.
My buddies at work are, I'm sure, sick of hearing me say, "DDR has GOT to be coming out soon." I've been saying it for so long that it's more of despation than prediction now!
As I've said a hundred times here, I'd be more than happy with NO SPEED BUMP on the current G4's if they could just catch that RAM bus speed up to where AltiVec wasn't playing a game of chess between operations!
Bingo!
This is something I've been harping about for OVER A YEAR NOW! I think I had read somewhere like anandtech.com or arstechnica.com that the AltiVec units on the G4, while vastly superior to the Intel and AMD SIMD units, are starved when it comes to RAM access speed.
My buddies at work are, I'm sure, sick of hearing me say, "DDR has GOT to be coming out soon." I've been saying it for so long that it's more of despation than prediction now!
As I've said a hundred times here, I'd be more than happy with NO SPEED BUMP on the current G4's if they could just catch that RAM bus speed up to where AltiVec wasn't playing a game of chess between operations!
Re: Why can't you own both?
I don't blame you. The whole megahertz myth is no longer even talked about in Apple land. It was fine and dandy for a while but now with clock speeds where they are in Pentiums and AMDs its no comparison.
I built myself a PC a while back and hardly use it. A number of times I have been tempted to upgrade the CPU in it and start using it again. I certainly will not buy anything though with Windows XP installed. Apple really needs to hound Motorola on this issue. If not, get another CPU and take their PPC patents with them. Let motorola fall on its face why don't they.
I don't blame you. The whole megahertz myth is no longer even talked about in Apple land. It was fine and dandy for a while but now with clock speeds where they are in Pentiums and AMDs its no comparison.
I built myself a PC a while back and hardly use it. A number of times I have been tempted to upgrade the CPU in it and start using it again. I certainly will not buy anything though with Windows XP installed. Apple really needs to hound Motorola on this issue. If not, get another CPU and take their PPC patents with them. Let motorola fall on its face why don't they.
Re: Re: man....
You came out of lurkdom to say you will be forced to pay again?
How exactly are they forcing you? Are they holding your balls to the fire?
I see OS 10.1 full installs being sold for 40-50 bucks on different places. You run 10.1 this long without dying, so you can wait as well for the 10.2 update to drop in price like that as well if you don't like the pricing.
Like others have said, its a pure head game with this. If Apple released it as 10.5 and at MWSF 2003 everybody would be jumping and bumping at the prospect of paying for the next iteration of 10.
For those cheap 10 installs check out http://deal-mac.com if you must.
You came out of lurkdom to say you will be forced to pay again?
How exactly are they forcing you? Are they holding your balls to the fire?
I see OS 10.1 full installs being sold for 40-50 bucks on different places. You run 10.1 this long without dying, so you can wait as well for the 10.2 update to drop in price like that as well if you don't like the pricing.
Like others have said, its a pure head game with this. If Apple released it as 10.5 and at MWSF 2003 everybody would be jumping and bumping at the prospect of paying for the next iteration of 10.
For those cheap 10 installs check out http://deal-mac.com if you must.
ImAlwaysRight
macrumors 6502a
I might as well be watching t.v.
I see that this article has 47 comments attached to it, so I'm hoping for some good discussion about the G5...
then when I get done reading I feel like I just finished watching an episode of Jenny Jones...
I see that this article has 47 comments attached to it, so I'm hoping for some good discussion about the G5...
then when I get done reading I feel like I just finished watching an episode of Jenny Jones...
drastik
macrumors 6502a
Re: Re: man....
Groove buster:
I'm not gonna argue with your whole post, I think that people use a Mac for other reasons entirely in many cases and I think your points about a professional environment are valid (depending on the environment.) However, I think that the manners comment is rediculous, you are one of the rudest posters on these boards, in my experience.
Groove buster:
I'm not gonna argue with your whole post, I think that people use a Mac for other reasons entirely in many cases and I think your points about a professional environment are valid (depending on the environment.) However, I think that the manners comment is rediculous, you are one of the rudest posters on these boards, in my experience.