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G5 Optimized Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro, and Shake
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not being all negative for no reason, BUT
am i the only one here that thinks removing the single 1.8 from the lineup is stupid?
does anyone remember power computing, the company that apple bought and squashed when jobs killed the clones?
well, in 1997 power computing had a better build-to-order system than apple does now. looking at their insistence on a 3 tiered product line makes me yearn for power computing's BTO setup, where everything in the machine was customizable.
why *can't* i buy a single 1.8? apple obviously has the parts. why can't they make the processor BTO just like everything else?
i think their supply chain is too inefficient; i'd love to see apple have a more flexible BTO system, so that they would effectively have more models in the lineup.
that said, the dual 1.8 is the machine they should have released at the start! i always thought the two singles in the lineup were too expensive, given the price of the dual. i know, i know...that was intentional so that everyone would spring for the dual 2.0s...
am i the only one here that thinks removing the single 1.8 from the lineup is stupid?
does anyone remember power computing, the company that apple bought and squashed when jobs killed the clones?
well, in 1997 power computing had a better build-to-order system than apple does now. looking at their insistence on a 3 tiered product line makes me yearn for power computing's BTO setup, where everything in the machine was customizable.
why *can't* i buy a single 1.8? apple obviously has the parts. why can't they make the processor BTO just like everything else?
i think their supply chain is too inefficient; i'd love to see apple have a more flexible BTO system, so that they would effectively have more models in the lineup.
that said, the dual 1.8 is the machine they should have released at the start! i always thought the two singles in the lineup were too expensive, given the price of the dual. i know, i know...that was intentional so that everyone would spring for the dual 2.0s...
Installing the updates...
Ok, so, on the topic of installing these updates, did anyone have to hard-reboot after the software update rebooted? I let it sit for a good 10-15 min on the 'darker' blue screen before I hit the powerbutton. I know about patience, but it was seemingly doing nothing. [hides for fear of 'idiot' remarks.]
It seems fine now though...FCP says 4.1 so I'm happy. 😀
[edit: running 10.3.0]
Ok, so, on the topic of installing these updates, did anyone have to hard-reboot after the software update rebooted? I let it sit for a good 10-15 min on the 'darker' blue screen before I hit the powerbutton. I know about patience, but it was seemingly doing nothing. [hides for fear of 'idiot' remarks.]
It seems fine now though...FCP says 4.1 so I'm happy. 😀
[edit: running 10.3.0]
Nope. It was definitely cut on an Avid Film/Media Composer.
You can see yourself on the original LOTR Two Towers DVD in the Return of the King preview where you get to see the editing bay.
The editing system that they are using is a Media Composer running on a good ol' 9600.
Film Composer is still the best tool there is to cut a feature on - 100% reliable.
It is not an avid threat in the online world for anything other than music videos, commercials, promos , etc. It cannot handle anything you throw at it! Trust me.
The Scrubs example is a total joke. They CUT on Avid and the only end up exporting a final show out of FCP. They have had so many problems with their workflow that Apple should be paying them for using it. The assistant editor is the one who wanted to do it in FCP because he is a total Mac fanatic.
Films are a different story. When all you have to do at the end of the day is generate a cut list to go back to your negative, it doesn't matter what you cut on. As long as your offline media keeps up and looks good enough, you do not necesarily need serious computing power. The editing system is ultimatley used to generate a very important text file.
There are a lot of stories about FCP and big projects (like the two movies you mentioned) and they are usually caused by editors or assistants that are total Mac fanatics and want to believe that FCP is as good as Avid. No editor in town would RELY on FCP to EDIT a television show. It just isn't there yet. Maybe in a few years.
Exactly. We use two 9600s running OS 8.6 on our Media Composers for the primetime series that I am on right now. They are rock solid.
Editing on a MC 7.1 on an 9600 with OS 8.6 as I type this.
I would love to upgrade to Adrenaline for the RT FX...but this thing is rock solid.
I would love to upgrade to Adrenaline for the RT FX...but this thing is rock solid.
There are a lot of stories about FCP and big projects (like the two movies you mentioned) and they are usually caused by editors or assistants that are total Mac fanatics and want to believe that FCP is as good as Avid. No editor in town would RELY on FCP to EDIT a television show. It just isn't there yet. Maybe in a few years.
I agree, they're all just Apple PR moves, or total mac geeks who would edit on and imac if they had to, and tell you how great it was. I think until now video dedicated hardware was king, like with the Avid, real professionals are willing to pay for real power. Most of the 3rd party hardware makers for FCP don't have the money in R/D that Avid has (they spend 300million on the latest product line) but it looks like Avid is moving more towards a software and host processor based system so it will give FCP a chance to catch up. If you look at that Walter Murch example he used and IgnitorX card, a card you have to render DISSOLVES on. That seems insane to me. Something about how Aurora couldn't get access to Apples RT coding so they prioritized what they would make real time. The only hardware I know of that does multiple real time layers is the Pinnacle Cinewave, but that's only for playback. You should render before you print to tape. Once again that doesn't make for a professional system. If you want to use FCP for any resolution, offline. That's a different story, that's when you can work between several different computers and not have to worry about different board sets, you could even edit on your powerbook with the exact same software. Not xpress pro or express or mojo or whatever they call it.
I agree, they're all just Apple PR moves, or total mac geeks who would edit on and imac if they had to, and tell you how great it was. I think until now video dedicated hardware was king, like with the Avid, real professionals are willing to pay for real power. Most of the 3rd party hardware makers for FCP don't have the money in R/D that Avid has (they spend 300million on the latest product line) but it looks like Avid is moving more towards a software and host processor based system so it will give FCP a chance to catch up. If you look at that Walter Murch example he used and IgnitorX card, a card you have to render DISSOLVES on. That seems insane to me. Something about how Aurora couldn't get access to Apples RT coding so they prioritized what they would make real time. The only hardware I know of that does multiple real time layers is the Pinnacle Cinewave, but that's only for playback. You should render before you print to tape. Once again that doesn't make for a professional system. If you want to use FCP for any resolution, offline. That's a different story, that's when you can work between several different computers and not have to worry about different board sets, you could even edit on your powerbook with the exact same software. Not xpress pro or express or mojo or whatever they call it.
LethalWolfe
macrumors G3
Nothing like the unbaised opinion of a long time Avid user. 😀
My "handle anything you can throw at it" comment was directed towards formats, not projects. I don't think FCP is as good as a Media/Film Composer, but FCP can give it a run for it's money and once you compare prices you really start wondering if you are really going to need the relatively few things you get w/an M/F Composer that you don't get w/FCP. Now does it compete w/a Symphony or a DS? No, but it's not supposed to. I guess I'm just confused as to why you seem to down play FCP so much. Is it a backlash against all the attention FCP has been getting? Do you see it as a lesser product just because of its price? Do you feel a need to justify the $75,000 machine you are sitting at right now? You say it doesn't matter what you cut a film on because in the end you are only exporting a cut list, so what do you think about a Film Composer? I don't know about you but I certainly don't want to cut a feature on Premiere 6.5. 😱 You also seem to look down on FCP as an "off line only" tool, but many of the machines FCP has been replacing are Media Composers that off-lined projects to be finished/on-lined on a Symphony, Smoke/Flame, etc.,.
While not as mature or feature rich as an M/F Composer (not yet at least) you can't deny the impact that FCP has had on the post side of the industry.
Also, I don't think Walter Murch or the Coen Brothers qualify as "total Mac fanatics." 😛
Well, back to work. I hear a Media Composer calling my name. Oddly enough it is a 9600 too. A bit long in the tooth, a bit slow but these mofo's just keep chuggin' along.
Lethal
here we go again....
and it starts again.....the old Avid vs. FCP flame wars.
Avid freaks are just as bad as Mac freaks when it comes to stuff like this. I've been using both for a very long time and honestly have had more problems with Avid than FCP. But would I take a free Media composer Adrenaline over a free FCP....any day. If I'm putting up my own money.....FCP all the way. for about 75% of all the editors out there FCP is the way to go. for the 2% that are actually cutting film.....get an avid.
No one is ever going to convince the other side that their side is better. you might as well argue Mac vs. PC.
Why don't we just stop the arguement and get to work.
peace
j
and it starts again.....the old Avid vs. FCP flame wars.
Avid freaks are just as bad as Mac freaks when it comes to stuff like this. I've been using both for a very long time and honestly have had more problems with Avid than FCP. But would I take a free Media composer Adrenaline over a free FCP....any day. If I'm putting up my own money.....FCP all the way. for about 75% of all the editors out there FCP is the way to go. for the 2% that are actually cutting film.....get an avid.
No one is ever going to convince the other side that their side is better. you might as well argue Mac vs. PC.
Why don't we just stop the arguement and get to work.
peace
j
LethalWolfe
macrumors G3
After Avid certifies and ships Adrenaline based G5's I'll report back w/first impressions. We are budgeted to get 2 as soon as possible and hopefully a 3rd next year.
Lethal
Anyone want to clue in this layman on why you would do anything on a 9600 with 8.6 anymore? Not that the 9600 wasn't cool, it's just a little dated. It can't be for the pci slots, can it? What else is there that you HAVE to do on such a machine? Someone made an iMac joke -- a lot of iMacs have more juice than any 604 ever will!
It's because running Avid Media Composer on a 9600 is ROCK SOLID.
It is a hardware based NLE. You get 2 streams of video and one title in real time...all the time.
There is no such thing as dropped frames. No such thing as timecode drift, or a non-frame accurate capture.
This thing is frame accurate 100% of the time.
The thing never crashes and I can rely on it 100%. That is why tons of post houses still use them.
All of the video work is done on the dedicated Avid hardware, so it really doesn't matter that it is running on a 9600.
It is a hardware based NLE. You get 2 streams of video and one title in real time...all the time.
There is no such thing as dropped frames. No such thing as timecode drift, or a non-frame accurate capture.
This thing is frame accurate 100% of the time.
The thing never crashes and I can rely on it 100%. That is why tons of post houses still use them.
All of the video work is done on the dedicated Avid hardware, so it really doesn't matter that it is running on a 9600.
1. You don't know anything about production. Production is about maximizing productivity and resources to get the best qaulity/value ratio from your budget.
2. You don't HAVE to do anything on a 9600. The point is that Avids built using those computers are STILL great offline systems.
3. Anyone here that is on a 9600 Media Composer would rather be on a G4 Meridian system or adrenaline any day, but most editors do not make purchasing/rental decisions.
4. For $500-$700/week rental (8-12k to buy) you can get an ABVB Avid system. A Meridian on a G4 goes for 2-3 times as much depending on the length of the project.
5. An Avid is configured to work as an editing system only. All of the hardware and software are optimized to work together. Not like FCP where you have to combine multiple 3rd party products together that each have their own strenghs and weaknesses.
6. When you need tech support on an Avid you call one number. Any FCP "system" has many different companies involved depending on how the user has configured it.
LethalWolfe
macrumors G3
If it ain't broke don't fix it. The stability of these machines was proved to me during college. We had 5 or 6 of them at my University and they maybe crashed once a month. Maybe. And when you have about 1,000 production students using and abusing these machines (many times for over 24hrs straight) and the worst thing you have to worry about is a kernal panic possibly once a month. That's a solid f'ing machine. A bit slow though (boot up was usually the first coffee break of the day), but the things just wouldn't quit.
You'd be surprised how many of them are still being used. Maybe Avid and Apple made them too good. 😉
Lethal
I never said I did. In fact, I specifically said I didn't. It was a simple question that deserved a civil answer. Looking into the matter on google a little, it looks to me like Avid sells complete computers with their software, and the 9600 was apparantly one of them.
I also didn't ask for any more info on why FCP is bad. I take the side of whoever said that this flame war is ridiculous. A discussion is fine, but you seem to have a problem keeping it rational and objective.
I have nothing against FCP. I use it a lot. I have it on every Mac I own. It is a nice piece of software.
It isn't AVID v. FCP in my opinion until some moron who has never edited anything beyond home movies tries to argue that an Avid isn't worth the money.
FCP is software! Until Apple makes a Mac with SDI I/O and AES built in (or an Apple branded I/O) you really can't compare the two.
The point is this - an editing system must be reliable, frame accurate, cost effcient, and able to take a beating. Avids are built (on Macs and PCs) to stand up to these standards.
THAT is why an 8-10 year old ABVB running 8.6 on a 9600 is still running 24/7 with 99% uptime. And nothing is more valuable than that when it comes to production.
Also, the Cohen Brothers usually cut on film rather than non-linear. If you want to know more about the specific problems Scrubs have had with FCP and Digital Film Tree, I can go on at length. As for Walter Murch, God bless him for embracing change.
I may have misinterpretted the tone of your post, and my response was influenced by several other posts of varying degrees of ignorance. I do apologize for the tone of my argument, but it was aimed at more than just you.
All indi film makers around here including universities have only FCP. Avid is ok but for low budgets it's just not worth it. 90% of all commerical companies here recently just switched to FCP because it's cheaper and they are getting the same results.
FCP 5 is coming out next yr.
All rendering done here is done on some nice SGI machines.
FCP 5 is coming out next yr.
All rendering done here is done on some nice SGI machines.
Fun!
If only I could rake together $2,999.00 plus a 20 inch monitor.
Hmm.....
Edited for spelling errors.
If only I could rake together $2,999.00 plus a 20 inch monitor.
Hmm.....
Edited for spelling errors.
Where is "Here"?
There are a lot of universities that still use Avid media Composers, Avid DV, Media 100, along with FCP, Premiere, etc.
There are a considerable amount of commercial companies that do use FCP, but not 90%. And, most of those that do use it are using it for offline.
Without any hard facts, I would wager that 90% of commercials that are cut on FCP, are finished on smoke, flame, symphony, etc.
Considering that, it is still sometimes a good deal to buy a rock solid frame-accurate ABVB system for $6000 - $8000. It will cost you way more by the time you buy a PowerMac, Monitors, FCP, Speakers, Black Burst, mixer, video card, etc.
