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G5 Optimized Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro, and Shake

joelc,

Sorry you caught some of the flack that I'm sure was directed at me. 😀


actionslacks,

Sorry if I came off strong. Lately I've just run into too many Avid users who've never/barely used FCP but automaticly dismiss it as "consumer grade" because of the $999 price tag. I guess I'm a bit trigger happy.

AFAIK Intolerable Cruelity was the first time they did not cut on film, and I would like to know more about to goings-on over at Digital Film Tree. If you don't want to go into detail about it in this thread feel free to PM or e-mail.


Lethal
 
Originally posted by Trowaman
oh well in that case . . . w00t!
anyone know if Lord of the Rings was done on FCP, I know they used Shake, but that's all I know (that Apple near the end of the credits is nice)
Click to expand...

Last time I heard they were using about 10x 9600s running Avid MediaComposer! 9600s are kind of the bedrock of much of the film and video industry 🙂

However, I've just had a couple of friends finish up on ROTK (they're Shake compositors) so they should know for sure.

Regardless, they certainly *aren't* using Final Cut Pro.
 
Re: Installing the updates...

Originally posted by coumerelli
Ok, so, on the topic of installing these updates, did anyone have to hard-reboot after the software update rebooted? I let it sit for a good 10-15 min on the 'darker' blue screen before I hit the powerbutton. I know about patience, but it was seemingly doing nothing. [hides for fear of 'idiot' remarks.]

It seems fine now though...FCP says 4.1 so I'm happy. 😀

[edit: running 10.3.0]
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I'm running 10.3.1 which is what FCP4.1 is qualified for, and the same thing happened to me.
 
I haven't seen any hard data on the market share or use of Avid over FCP for editing. These posts seem very biased depending on what the person is using. If someone finds some data on the usage of the two I would be more inclined to listen to the arguments. I know for a fact that Star Wars Episode II was edited on FCP for the rough cut. It is on their website if you don't believe me. So you can't say that professionals don't use FCP or that it isn't an option.

I thought this was kinda interesting too:

http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/rick/askjc20020715.html

So when are they going to Update FCE for the G5?
 
Re: You should have known better...

Originally posted by ogminlo
Why anyone would buy a single processor Power Mac is beyond me... Apple was selling way more DP 2.0s, hence the hurried updates.

But your single chip 1.8s are still useful! Just not hyper-awesome-kickass fast like a DP machine!
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Because not everyone could budget $3K for the machine, plus the price of all the other stuff. If I'd had a chance to buy a 1.8 DP for $2500 instead of the 1.8 SP for $2400, I'd have taken it. But what the hell, I got 3 months of having the second fastest desktop computer .... and it's still a very, very nice machine; I haven't found a limit to what I can do (yet).
 
Re: not being all negative for no reason, BUT

Originally posted by suzerain
am i the only one here that thinks removing the single 1.8 from the lineup is stupid?

why *can't* i buy a single 1.8? apple obviously has the parts. why can't they make the processor BTO just like everything else?
Click to expand...
One of Jobs' big insights was that Apple needed to move away from having a multitude of products, and overlapping product lines. Thus the simplification: never more than 3 or 4 products per line, and 4-5 lines of systems (PowerMac, iMac, eMac, PowerBook, iBook). It simplifies a lot about delivery, manufacturing, support, etc.
 
Originally posted by Edot
I haven't seen any hard data on the market share or use of Avid over FCP for editing. These posts seem very biased depending on what the person is using. If someone finds some data on the usage of the two I would be more inclined to listen to the arguments. I know for a fact that Star Wars Episode II was edited on FCP for the rough cut. It is on their website if you don't believe me. So you can't say that professionals don't use FCP or that it isn't an option.

I thought this was kinda interesting too:

http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/rick/askjc20020715.html

So when are they going to Update FCE for the G5?
Click to expand...

The link you posted doesn't mention anything about FCP. Or if it did I'm blind 'cause I didn't see it.

IIRC, FCP wasn't used for a rough cut of the film. Episode II used very basic animation instead of traditional story boards and FCP was used to to edit those animation sequences.


Lethal
 
I'm all for FCP growing to be a better product. Avid has been relatively unchallenged in NLEs for film and competition is good for the consumer.

However, from statements from the Coen Brothers about the recent editing process for Intolerable shows their lack of understanding about NLEs in general and that the whole move to Apple for that project was pretty much an advertising move from Apple (the hardware was given to them and they were taught on it by Apple reps-- also being fed PR releases during the process to spout afterwards.) Their comments show their general lack of understanding of what is available in the NLE world and they probably would have been just as happy doing Intolerable on a steenbeck. But who wants to turndown free hardware and software! Apple's bonus is they get two darlings of the film world in their pocket for life.

This also applies to Walter for Cold Mountain (though he seems more knowledgable.) I think it's the right thing to do for FCP to get some credibility in the film industry (so for that I don't fault Apple's tactics-- I'd do the same thing in their place.) It's just that the intelligent editor should realize it is just advertising and take all of this with huge heaping spoonfuls of salt. In the end, this is another case of Apple using software as a trojan horse to sell more hardware. Avid's business model is different (in some ways more Apple than Apple since they are looking at vertically integrated products) and depend on hardware sales as much as software.

For now, both companies, Avid and Apple, need to start working on the stability of the newer systems they've put out since both lack the stability editors appreciate most; I have yet to hear or see a single demanding editor have a consistently flawless workflow on either the Avid DNA line or FCP4. That's more important to me than adding new features at this point (and upgrading software versions, which seems to only bring profit to the software developer.) I've been leaning towards Discreet Smoke since it seems most impressive and rock solid; everything they claim seems to be true of the system in realworld situations-- if only I had a $120K to spend 🙄
 
Originally posted by legion
I'm all for FCP growing to be a better product. Avid has been relatively unchallenged in NLEs for film and competition is good for the consumer.

However, from statements from the Coen Brothers about the recent editing process for Intolerable shows their lack of understanding about NLEs in general and that the whole move to Apple for that project was pretty much an advertising move from Apple (the hardware was given to them and they were taught on it by Apple reps-- also being fed PR releases during the process to spout afterwards.) Their comments show their general lack of understanding of what is available in the NLE world and they probably would have been just as happy doing Intolerable on a steenbeck. But who wants to turndown free hardware and software! Apple's bonus is they get two darlings of the film world in their pocket for life.

This also applies to Walter for Cold Mountain (though he seems more knowledgable.) I think it's the right thing to do for FCP to get some credibility in the film industry (so for that I don't fault Apple's tactics-- I'd do the same thing in their place.) It's just that the intelligent editor should realize it is just advertising and take all of this with huge heaping spoonfuls of salt. In the end, this is another case of Apple using software as a trojan horse to sell more hardware. Avid's business model is different (in some ways more Apple than Apple since they are looking at vertically integrated products) and depend on hardware sales as much as software.

For now, both companies, Avid and Apple, need to start working on the stability of the newer systems they've put out since both lack the stability editors appreciate most; I have yet to hear or see a single demanding editor have a consistently flawless workflow on either the Avid DNA line or FCP4. That's more important to me than adding new features at this point (and upgrading software versions, which seems to only bring profit to the software developer.) I've been leaning towards Discreet Smoke since it seems most impressive and rock solid; everything they claim seems to be true of the system in realworld situations-- if only I had a $120K to spend 🙄
Click to expand...

Well said. I too found it interesting that Apple would approach editors that always cut on film to write a story about instead of editors that always cut on Avid.

I agree with your opinion of smoke. Discreet rules. I really hope they do not abandon the Mac. I love running combustion on my systems at home.

All of Avids new products for HD have had more bugs to work out than previous Media composer generations. DS is not as solid as it should be, Nitris will have a growth period, and I would not trady a meridian 9000 for an adrenaline any day.

The NLE revolution has not been at the professional level, but at the prosumer/indie level where gigantic leaps have been made over the past couple years.
 
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
The link you posted doesn't mention anything about FCP. Or if it did I'm blind 'cause I didn't see it.

IIRC, FCP wasn't used for a rough cut of the film. Episode II used very basic animation instead of traditional story boards and FCP was used to to edit those animation sequences.


Lethal
Click to expand...

You must be blind.😕

Originally posted by daveLWell... today, I guess🙂
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Final Cut Express? Where?😕
 
This AVID vs. FCP must stop at Once!

I'm a AVID editor, Avid is nice, but not that nice. I would rather finish on Smoke any day, but for FCP4. It has come a long way in a short time. Both systems have problems, even the rock solid 9600's, are limited by the hardware that runs them, thats why avid has changed to DNA. But DNA Sucks, I would rather use the New Media100's 844, it blows DNA away, by far. ..
 
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
I'll be interested in hearing from people who had issues on G5s/Panther. Hopefully this resolves everything.
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I hope it does too, I'd really like to get firewire preview out to my deck/monitor! I'll upgrade the DP2.0 tomorrow to FCP4.1 and let you know if it fixes the bug...otherwise I'll be on some other forums and the phone trying to get this **** to work already.

BTW I do like FCP, I've been cutting everything from TV segments to 90 min programs to 12 layer DVD motion menus on it. I haven't used Avid in years, but only cause I can't afford one right now. My Media100 has a "kick me" sign on it if that tells you anything.
 
Originally posted by Edot
You must be blind.😕
Click to expand...


Well can you help a blind guy out then? I click on yer link and I'm taken to a page where Rick McCallum is answering a Q from a high school kid who wants to be a producer. One thing he says is, "...go buy an iMac and Final Cut Pro.." but thats all I see. 🙁


Lethal
 
Re: Re: not being all negative for no reason, BUT

Originally posted by tny
One of Jobs' big insights was that Apple needed to move away from having a multitude of products, and overlapping product lines. Thus the simplification: never more than 3 or 4 products per line, and 4-5 lines of systems (PowerMac, iMac, eMac, PowerBook, iBook). It simplifies a lot about delivery, manufacturing, support, etc.
Click to expand...

If you've ever visited HP's or Dell's or eMachines' or any other PC manufacturer's support website, you would understand this need for simplification. Instead of, on Apple's site, clicking on "iBook" or "Power Mac G4", you could search for your HP 24984 XLsdfif Rev. 2.238 (exaggerated, but gets my point across). Kudos to Apple for simplification of the product line.
 
No Avid mentioned in this posting...

Weta Digital in Wellington NZ( Also known as Middle Earth to LOTR fans ) have a IBM PC based renderwall for all their special effects and use Maya but as far as I know they dont use FCP as they dont use Apple.
Click to expand...

Oh, really? Don't they use Macs?

am i the only one here that thinks removing the single 1.8 from the lineup is stupid?
Click to expand...

Yes. If Dual is $100 more, you definately are! ;-)
 
Re: No Avid mentioned in this posting...

Originally posted by Kai
Oh, really? Don't they use Macs?
Click to expand...

Not implicitly disagreeing with you (as I wasn't the one that made the original claim), but the Macs are used for previewing digital effects. Not final rendering. It's also interesting that they were using it because they had custom software built for OS9. These things may have changed two years later (article's from 2001 and the work done on the next 2 LOTRs was done on different hardware too)

The Shake boxes are Linux (if you note the clever scripting in the PR release on Shake and LOTR, they attempt to sidestep the issue of which type of machine they run Shake on.. only saying it's helpful that it is a multiplatform application.) However, if you notice the licenses they (Weta) bought, it directly links to the fact that it is running on Linux and not Macs. (Licenses for Macs would have been handled differently... plus, would you think that Apple would avoid such a obvious marketing treasure if Weta was using Macs for Shake?)

Apple hardware products are used a lot for previewing and roughcutting, however they are used far less for finals in cutting/editing or rendering. For instance, CineWave +FCP was used for in-field rough cutting and previewing for the Matrix 2 and 3, however all the final cuts and finishing was done on Avids.
 
Re: Re: No Avid mentioned in this posting...

Originally posted by legion
Apple hardware products are used a lot for previewing and roughcutting, however they are used far less for finals in cutting/editing or rendering. For instance, CineWave +FCP was used for in-field rough cutting and previewing for the Matrix 2 and 3, however all the final cuts and finishing was done on Avids.
Click to expand...

So, were those PC or Mac based Avids? 😉


Lethal
 
Well, it seems this thread on LOTR I started is coming to an end but I do want to post a few things I have learned from getting TTT Extended edition.

There are many documenteraries on the DVD and upong them is one on editing and they are using Avids to edit but the surprising part was LOTR use of iPods. There's about 2 minutes of docs where they talk about how they bought a bunch of iPods and used them as portable hard drives, using them to transfer finished scenes from the movies from builing to building (one guy with an iPod and finished scene was almost mugged, quite funny to hear about). Also, almost anytime you see Peter Jackson there is a Powerbook or iBook with him.

Thanks to everyone who responded to my LOTR editing question.
 
Re: not being all negative for no reason, BUT

Originally posted by suzerain
well, in 1997 power computing had a better build-to-order system than apple does now. looking at their insistence on a 3 tiered product line makes me yearn for power computing's BTO setup, where everything in the machine was customizable.

why *can't* i buy a single 1.8? apple obviously has the parts. why can't they make the processor BTO just like everything else?
Click to expand...

I think apple still likes to make things "easier" for the average person. Mom & Dad don't know anything about processors. They just want a computer that will work & work well.
 
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