G5 PowerMacs Shipping?

[daveL]

Originally posted by DrGonzo
I do when i BUILD my own computer. Stop being an Apple elitest. Granted, there really hasn't been anything groundbreaking in pcs for awhlie, but there's no reason to say that.

Right, BUILD my own computer. Buy a MB, screw it into a case, attach DC power, insert PCI cards and close case. Man, you're a *real* hard core power user. Gee, you might even add memory to the MB and install a couple drives. Now, don't get that crazy master/secondary drive cable thing wrong. I bet you can even assemble your childs bicycle at Christmas time. I'm impressed. And then what: You install Windows on it! Well, whatever floats your boat, as they say. I think you should go out, right now, and buy, I mean BUILD, one.

 

[DrGonzo]

They way i see it is that most users of a powerbook HAVE a desktop, so the laptop is supplemental. Now i know some of you will say "oh i only have a laptop" and that's fine, but it seems in the past this is how it's been. However, now that the hardware is here to remove the desktop entirely why shouldn't apple users have the same luxury? I think Apple needs to get a g5 in a laptop *NOW* to give an option to people who want it. If it takes a a case thats almost 2" thick and weighs damn near 10lbs I say do it (i.e. alienware).

That being said, Alienware's (awesome) laptops are not aiming for that crowd - they are aiming for the gamer, pure and simple.

I definately agree that they're AIMED for the gaming market, but if you look at the specs they're very "awesome". Just because it has a screaming laptop video card doesn't mean this laptop is only good for gaming. It has a high resolution with what i will assume is a nice screen (good for video editing, photoshop, etc...) Has plenty of ports. It's FAST, 3.06ghz in a laptop with up to a gig of ram giving you a decent amount of head room, and an unheard of 7200rpm hard drive, which is definately good for more than just video. So if you want a laptop that kicks serious ass regardless of what OS you run (you DO have an option to run more than just windows). Of course the biggest downsides to this laptop is the hefty weight and what I will assume is a low battery life though with an extra battery i think it would have enough juice to sit you through most things before you make it around a socket. I don't think the g5 is extremly exciting as I won't be buying one and while the technology impresses me greatly, it's just the next progression in desktops. I think the most impressive thing is yet to come in the form of a powerbook with a g5 or something that puts that alienware lapweight, errrr i mean laptop, in it's place.

 

[yanges]

my local Apple Store [ Northridge, CA ] just told me that it won't have demo G5 units till end of August?

i just hope the guy isn't right.....

why wouldn't Apple's own stores have them if they were shipping?

you would think it would help them sell even more G5's....

 

[firedrake]

G5 availablility

Yanges,

I'm in Reseda -- I'd love to -see- a G5, but I've gone ahead and ordered it through educational channels, based on spec. I go up to the Apple Store at Northridge at least once a week, pestering them.

 

[Jesus on OSX]

Originally posted by yoshi1013 I doubt PC Users out there get this excited about their computers.

Totally untrue. Have you checked DellRumors.com or SpyDell.com recently?



no, wait a minute...

 

[mikeh123]

Dont get excited

Well whether some big customers or not have them the rest of us won't for some time yet.
In the UK any build to orders won't be seen till LAST week in September. Standard configurations will be shipped first. I cannot see any dealer or direct apple store order being shipped in August full stop. Early September at the best.

You will not see them in August. That is what apple have told me through our dealership channels

 

[soggywulf]

Re: Re: COmputer Excitement

Originally posted by Fukui
Nice, but you only get one CPU and no superdrive, though it is 300 dollar cheaper, and looks pretty cool . (the top end alienware)

A superdrive costs maybe $150 in the PC world. Personally I think that Alienware is pretty overpriced. I think I could easily build a PC just as fast as that $2600 model for about $1500 including OS. Oh, and I could have it in a week, as opposed to 2 months. 🙁

Of course, the downside is that it runs windows...

 

[soggywulf]

Re: Computer Excitement

Originally posted by jaedreth
We should have a choice.

Indeed. And what provides that choice? Competition, that wonderful feature of a capitalist economy.

So now, either we wait for a fancy box until its value is halved, or we get nothing. Wouldn't it be nice if those who wanted fancy boxes could wait for them, and those of us who don't care about boxes could get the motherboards immediately and slap them in a $30 ATX case (with, incidentally, 4 optical bays and 5 HD bays)? Fine, it'll be louder. Those who care can choose to wait for the fancy aluminum models. Or those who are mechanically inclined can cut the front and back of their ATX case and stick on a couple 4" fans for $5 each and run them at half speed.

<sigh> We can dream.

 

[tychay]

Originally posted by fluffy
I doubt a standard ATX case could sufficiently cool a G5 though, at least not without adding a huge mess of noisy fans. Most of the G5's case engineering went into the massive cooling requirements...

Myth. Look up the power requirements of a 970 (G5) (42watts @ 1.8Ghz*) and double it. It still falls under a single P4 (110watts @ 3.2Ghz**).

The difference is that if Apple came up with a design like you see typically in the PC world, everyone would be claiming that they released another "windtunnel."

The "massive cooling requirements" is an illusion Apple marketting used to justify overdesigning the airflow in case and to deflect users from wondering why they can't have an underclocked version in a notebook (or two drive bays back in their case a la "mirror doors").

* I couldn't find any numbers for 2Ghz G5 yet. I heard it's around 48 watts. There is an EETimes article that claims it's 97 watts but obviously these people are morons and doubled it.

** This is extrapolated from Intel's "thermal design rating" which is typically 30 watts lower than the max. Note that there are Intel machines with 2x3 Ghz P4 (Xeon) in them in ATX cases (check Dell and be prepared to break out the $).

 

[omnivector]

Re: COmputer Excitement

Originally posted by jaedreth
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by yoshi1013
I doubt PC Users out there get this excited about their computers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.alienware.com/gaming_main_desktop.aspx

http://www.alienware.com/system_pages/area-51m.aspx

Apple has nowhere *NEAR* the price/feature ratio these guys have.

Nor do they have anywhere near the cosmetic options.

A friend of mine and myself got very excited looking over their website, and he's gonna buy one. I'm still undecided. I'll give Apple a chance, but I seriously doubt they will come out with systems *this* sweet.

Jaedreth

Uh, a little misinformed are we?
check out the spec scores

and since most people think specs mean nothing, watch the WWDC keynote to see the g5 kicking the crap out of a DUAL xeon. those alien ware computers are only a single chip, and they still cost in the ~$2500 dollar range. If you watch the keynote, you'll also hear steve saying the cost of a dual xeon from a company like dell, that they used, was in the price range of greater than $4000. So twice the performance, and $1000 less. yeah that alien ware computer has it beat!!1!!!!!1

Edited for typos 🙁

 

[fluffy]

(multiple corrections regarding the heat output of the G5)

Thanks. I keep forgetting that Apple marketing works in strange ways.

 

[the future]

Anyone who likes the design of Apple computers *and* that of Alienware computers is seriously schizophrenic.

 

[ryan]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
What I really like about the Mac Bidouille article



Just one more reason to wait for Rev. B aside from getting Panther pre-installed....😀

D

Yeah, but why just wait for Rev. B? Why not wait for Rev. C? Surely it will be be faster and cheaper than C. Or wait, I know, wait for Rev. D, they'll be even faster than C! No, forget that, the G5 is old news, what you should really wait for is the G6, now that will be sweet.

These are computers, you buy one, and they're no longer state of the art as soon as you take them out of the box. Accept it. If you're always waiting for the next price cut/speed increase/feature addition you'll never get a new system and will forever be using your Mac Plus.

 

[jaedreth]

the future

Oh really?

So you're saying that someone who just happens to like the designs of these two spearate computer companies suffers from a total mental departure from reality?

If you're thinking a split mind, that's MPD, not Schizophrenia.

When someone is "not in touch with reality", and believes in things like unicorns and dragons and faeries, hears voices in their head, who believes somebody is out to get them (but doesn't have concrete proof), etc. That's usually diagnosed medically as Schizophrenia. (Being an ecclectic wiccan, I have serious objections to medical professions using aspects of my religion to diagnose mental disorders...) But yes, Schizophrenia is the technical term when someone is generally considered just insane.

So it is insanity to enjoy the esthetically pleasing designs of two different companies? They are both cool, and sleek. However, Alienware has better stuff at lower cost. Of course it's 2-3 times thicker than the Ti/Al-Book.

I'm not a Mac Bigot. I am also not a PC Basher. Just as I get fed up with the "Apple makes it, thus it's the best", I am equally fed up with "Apple doesn't make it, it's automatically sh*t".

The Alienware makes some *nice* stuff. Apple's too entrenched in it's whole 1 inch thick motif to realize they could pack a lot more power at less cost (by using less minaturized and thus less expensive parts), and actually be competitive.

Problem is: Apple doesn't see itself as competing with the Windows market, and thus *chooses* not to be competitive.

Will I buy an Alienware product? Maybe after I get me a new Mac. Maybe not at all. For me it's not as much about loyalty as it is this:

I am an *expert* when it comes to repairing Macs.
I am a *novice* when it comes to repairing PCs.

I don't want to pay for service.

Jaedreth

 

[yanges]

Re: Re: Computer Excitement

Originally posted by soggywulf
Wouldn't it be nice if those who wanted fancy boxes could wait for them, and those of us who don't care about boxes could get the motherboards immediately and slap them in a $30 ATX case (with, incidentally, 4 optical bays and 5 HD bays)? Fine, it'll be louder. Those who care can choose to wait for the fancy aluminum models.

<sigh> We can dream.

what i want to know is what is the need for 4 optical bays?? kinda overdone if you ask me.....

 

[macmax]

Originally posted by mactastic
I particularly liked the part where he publicly stated that we will be seeing 3Ghz chips within a year! Holy floating point operations Batman!

hahahhaahahhaha, i liked this thread.

i hope we really move fast, go Apple!!!!

 

[soggywulf]

Re: Re: COmputer Excitement

Originally posted by omnivector
Uh, a little misinformed are we?
check out the spec scores

There's no call to be needlessy insulting. Of course we have all seen the G5 spec scores and the marketing comparisons given in the keynote.

Many of us are taking all of that with a grain of salt (neither saying "THEY CHEATED" nor "G5 RULES YOU JEALOUS WINLOSERS"). I think user tests and comparisons on a wide variety of apps will be the real test of the G5. These can only happen once the G5s start shipping.

 

[redcalx]

Re: the future

Let's clear a few things up.

First off, the alienware designs are ugly. I'd be embarassed to keep something like that in my house. I don't live in a cartoony looking house. I like modernism and apple hits the nail on the head with it's sleek modern designs. Alienware is a t-shirt my friend. It's cheesy pieces of plastic.

Secondly, I have a good friend who suffers from Schizophrenia and he had a good laugh at your "believes in dragons, faries and unicorns comment". Also, having schizophrenia does not make one insane, it just makes things harder. Stick to what you know friend, because so far you arent doing so well.

And lastly, I looked over those sysetms, they're far from "better" as you put it. I don't really know what else to say. They might preform slightly better at gaming because they're built specifically for that, but personally I could care less about gaming on my PC. I'll play my X-box and/or Gamecube if I want to play games. As far as image editing, or video editing goes, I hope they packed a lot of air in those alienware cases because otherwise, it's doomed to sink.

Good day.

Originally posted by jaedreth
Oh really?

So you're saying that someone who just happens to like the designs of these two spearate computer companies suffers from a total mental departure from reality?

If you're thinking a split mind, that's MPD, not Schizophrenia.

When someone is "not in touch with reality", and believes in things like unicorns and dragons and faeries, hears voices in their head, who believes somebody is out to get them (but doesn't have concrete proof), etc. That's usually diagnosed medically as Schizophrenia. (Being an ecclectic wiccan, I have serious objections to medical professions using aspects of my religion to diagnose mental disorders...) But yes, Schizophrenia is the technical term when someone is generally considered just insane.

So it is insanity to enjoy the esthetically pleasing designs of two different companies? They are both cool, and sleek. However, Alienware has better stuff at lower cost. Of course it's 2-3 times thicker than the Ti/Al-Book.

I'm not a Mac Bigot. I am also not a PC Basher. Just as I get fed up with the "Apple makes it, thus it's the best", I am equally fed up with "Apple doesn't make it, it's automatically sh*t".

The Alienware makes some *nice* stuff. Apple's too entrenched in it's whole 1 inch thick motif to realize they could pack a lot more power at less cost (by using less minaturized and thus less expensive parts), and actually be competitive.

Problem is: Apple doesn't see itself as competing with the Windows market, and thus *chooses* not to be competitive.

Will I buy an Alienware product? Maybe after I get me a new Mac. Maybe not at all. For me it's not as much about loyalty as it is this:

I am an *expert* when it comes to repairing Macs.
I am a *novice* when it comes to repairing PCs.

I don't want to pay for service.

Jaedreth

 

[jaedreth]

Converse logic

I'm not saying my descriptions fit all schizophrenics, I said that these are examples of *some* of the things that might be characterized as schizophrenia.

And I do want a gaming system.

And I find some of the colored iBooks far more cartoonish, like Key Lime.

I'd most likely get a black tower, and a conspiracy blue notebook. After I had my macs of course.

Personal preference.

Geez, twist my words to mean something else why don't you?

Just because mackeral are fish, and fish live under water doesn't mean everything that lives underwater is a mackeral.

Jaedreth

 

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by ryan
Yeah, but why just wait for Rev. B? Why not wait for Rev. C? Surely it will be be faster and cheaper than C. Or wait, I know, wait for Rev. D, they'll be even faster than C! No, forget that, the G5 is old news, what you should really wait for is the G6, now that will be sweet.

Nice try at a strawman. 🙄 That is not what we are saying. There are times when a computer is a good deal, and there are other times then it is not--independent of absolute time. A delay can cause a computer that was a good deal to be less of a good deal. In fact this is always the case with a delay on computer stuff, and it is worse the longer the delay is.

IMO the G5 was a good deal in June. In October, it is not as good a deal, enough that I probably won't buy one. I am hoping that the rev B's are released shortly and with less delay (due to lack of tooling or manufactuing problems, for example).

Originally posted by ryan
These are computers, you buy one, and they're no longer state of the art as soon as you take them out of the box. Accept it. If you're always waiting for the next price cut/speed increase/feature addition you'll never get a new system and will forever be using your Mac Plus.

Exactly. They are valued less as soon as they are opened. And even further devalued if you wait 4 months before opening the box! That is in effect what is happening here with the G5.

 

[soggywulf]

Re: Re: Re: Computer Excitement

Originally posted by yanges
what i want to know is what is the need for 4 optical bays?? kinda overdone if you ask me.....

You can use an optical bays for extra HD's, if you get a $5 adapter. If you don't need them, of course you don't have to use them, or you can get a cheaper mini-ATX case for even less than $30. Again, the results of choice and competition.

 

[soggywulf]

Re: Re: the future

Originally posted by redcalx
I'll play my X-box and/or Gamecube if I want to play games.

That may be OK for you, but some of us want a better gaming machine than a console box. Think variety, and hi-res.

 

[Fukui]

Re: the future

Originally posted by jaedreth
However, Alienware has better stuff at lower cost. Of course it's 2-3 times thicker than the Ti/Al-Book.

I'm not a Mac Bigot. I am also not a PC Basher. Just as I get fed up with the "Apple makes it, thus it's the best", I am equally fed up with "Apple doesn't make it, it's automatically sh*t".

The Alienware makes some *nice* stuff. Apple's too entrenched in it's whole 1 inch thick motif to realize they could pack a lot more power at less cost (by using less minaturized and thus less expensive parts), and actually be competitive.

Problem is: Apple doesn't see itself as competing with the Windows market, and thus *chooses* not to be competitive.

Well, on desktops, they're not too badly priced at all. Drop the Superdrive and the Twin 2GHZ G4 is only 2799, compared to the Alienware @ 2643 for only once CPU. If you believe that the 2GHZ G5 is roughly equal to the P4 @ 3GHZ (yet to be absolutely proven) then for only 150 more dollars on the Apple you can get much better performance, not to mention the Serial ATA controller, Toslink In/Out, PCI-X, and dual Interleaved RAM...so on the desktop level, at least on the top end, apple is finally competitive.

On the laptop front, the Alienware P4 CPU is wayyyy faster than the G4, but you'll notice that the 15 G4 also has an ATI Radeon 9000, so for a faster cpu and more graphics memory your still 1000 dollars more expensive then the 15 Ti (entry level 15 inch )with pretty close specs... still the alienware top-end is better...I think the problem is, apple doesn't have any 2.0 GHZ G5s of P4s to stick in a laptop, though that would be nice!

 

[soggywulf]

Re: Re: the future

Originally posted by Fukui
then for only 150 more dollars on the Apple you can get much better performance

Yet to be proven. We can hope, but let us see them shipping and really tested before coming to such a conclusion.

Originally posted by Fukui
not to mention the Serial ATA controller

Most PC mobos these days have SATA built in, I think. Certainly a $125 mobo will have SATA. In any case, it doesn't matter...SATA is no faster than PATA (unless you have a couple REALLY fast HDs on RAID, but in that case you should be doing FC or scsi).

Originally posted by Fukui
Toslink In/Out

The Alienware comes with the Soundblaster Audigy 2, which has not only Toslink input and output, but also coax digital, and multichannel 6.1 analog output for those who don't have an external dolby receiver in the home theatre system. The audigy is about $75.

The point is, we will seldom come out ahead in a hardware price/features comparison with PCs. Why? Choice and competition.

Originally posted by Fukui
PCI-X

This is true. OTOH, can anyone point me to any PCI-X cards out there? By the time there are any such cards, it will become standard on PCs as well.

Originally posted by Fukui
and dual Interleaved RAM...

This has been standard on many el cheapo PCs for quite some time. Certainly that Alienware box includes this. Interleaving is nothing new, some very old Macs had it as well.

Originally posted by Fukui
so on the desktop level, at least on the top end, apple is finally competitive.

Mmm...well, we'll see. When the machines ship, we'll see how fast they really are, and then we will be able to tell if they are worth the prices. They seemed like a good deal in June, but now I am not so sure.

Originally posted by Fukui
On the laptop front, the Alienware P4 CPU is wayyyy faster than the G4, but you'll notice that the 15 G4 also has an ATI Radeon 9000, so for a faster cpu and more graphics memory your still 1000 dollars more expensive then the 15 Ti

Yeah, I agree--that Alien laptop doesn't look too great. ATI 9000 for $3k? Bleah. Then again, I'd never be playing serious games on a laptop anyway. 🙂

 

[ryan]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Nice try at a strawman. 🙄 That is not what we are saying.
<snip>

Strawman?

Since you've decided to speak for all the people waiting for rev b. I will too. A vast majority of the "I'm going to wait" people were saying they were so prior to the offical G5 announcement.

But, it's all good since I get to laugh at the people are going to have a fast system and be able to get all this work done tomorrow, while the people that buy a system when they need one get their work done today.