Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
G5 Specs for WWDC!
- Thread starter neonart
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I agree with you here - I'm thinking Apple will set the price of the high-end G5 at $2799 (with the default options). One thing we all agree on - the 3.0 GHz Macs, WHEN THEY ARE RELEASED, will be fast. How fast they are compared to other Macs and Windows PCs will have to wait until benchmarks are compiled. At $2799, I'd snap up a Dual 3.0 GHz machine (no monitor) - if only I was in the market for a new computer. Sigh.Frobozz said:
Good math that sound very groovy. Apple really needs to take the performance lead in a machine that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. The problem is if Apple repeats their well known history they will over price such a machine and then wonder where the sales are.Frobozz said:
We have heard this before. The problem is the goose has already been cooked. Besides what is ten percent, less than 20,000 computers per quarter and they will still mis.
The problem is they need more than just competitve prices they need a marketing program.
Another argument that doesn't hold up in light of real Apple sales figures. Such a machine can not be called fairly priced when similar hardware can be had for half that price.
Further just because a machine is described as "pro" doesn't mean it is. It can be easly argued that the current G5 Tower is missing alot of "pro" qualities. If Apple is able to deliver the current G5 platform with a 3GHz chip the maximum they should be charging for that system is $2000. Users are currenlty paying at least $1000 more than they should be for this hardware. It is no wonder that consumers and "pro" have left the fold for greener pastures.
I don't buy that one bit. Apple doesn't and won't sell (current) PowerMacs at $2000 for two reasons:wizard said:
1. Apple requires high profit margins to survive.
2. Apple bundles so much useful software with all Macs that they need to recover their costs somehow.
Also, have you tried going to an online PC store and pricing a PC that has specifications as close as possible to those of the Mac (including bundled software)? You'll probably find the Mac is cheaper than the PC.
wizard said:
Not quite. Getting a machine at 2799$-2999$ for all the suppossed specs the next G5 would contain would be unbelievable. Again, apple isnt trying to sell their absolute top of the line model (dual 3ghz isnt intended for mom and dad to check their emails...) to everyone, thats what the lower spec'd options are for. Even if they have 1 computer at 1999-2199, it will still be very competitive against anything comparable offer from the wintel world. Heres a current price of a decently equipped alienware system, and I didntg go all out because Im not sure what the apple is going to actually have....
[1] Aurora
Case: Alienware® Full-Tower Case (420-Watt PS) - Cyborg Green
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 Processor with HyperTransport Technology
Memory: 1GB Extreme Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 400MHz Registered - 2 x 512MB
Video Card: Alienware® GeForce FX 5950 Extreme 256MB DDR w/Digital and S-Video Out
Video Cooling: AlienIce Video Cooling System - Terra Green
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster® Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro High Definition 7.1 Surround
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional
Motherboard: ASUS SK8V - VIA K8T800 Motherboard
Optical Drive One: Lite-On 52x32x52x CD-RW
Optical Drive Two: Plextor PX-708A 8x DVD±R/W Drive - Black
Home Networking: D-Link® 802.11G Wireless USB Adapter
Network Connection: High Speed Gigabit Ethernet
System Drive: High Performance - Serial ATA - 120GB Seagate Barracuda® 7,200 RPM
$3,711.00
And thats no bluetooth, 1 120gb SATA drive because its all they offer, no dual layer DVD drive, no dual processors...
I agree with the first part of this, Apples current G5's are pro quality machines, but they dont cover the needs of alot of professionals. The graphics card is the #1 problem I see, followed by the sound, and then expandability options. All of these factors, if this rumor proves to be true, would be fixed by apple. Then what? What would their possibly be missing from calling this the most professional, complete, mass production computer in history? You will not find a computer that can come even close to a G5 for 1500-2000$ You would still need all the cutting edge technology from the pc side, and that still isnt cheap.
Riiight, last time I checked, the last 7 academy awards for best visual effects were all done with Shake and on a mac. The majority of television broadcasting is done with a mac, a majority in the film/video/graphics workforce ALL use macs. So maybe the "pros" have left for greener pastures, but they all seem to be right here...now with Apple.
There is no way Apple is going to use any other solution besides their integrated sound that's the same across ALL Macs - that would break Apple tradition. Besides, there's nothing wrong with Apple's sound implementation, and it frees up a PCI slot.SyndicateX said:
Put up or shut up
Apple's well known history (in my view) is to ship a quality machine at a reasonable t0 comfortable profit margin. On more than a few occasions they have released hardware that people on these boards complained was WAY overpriced (the original iMac, the iPod to name a few) that sold like hot cakes at an igloo raising. Some others have not sold well (the cube). Most Apple products sell at a comfortable rate at their price points.
Please tell me what "similar" hardware can be had for half that price. I just checked pricewatch and the Xenon 3.0GHz chip alone is $367, the "cheap" Athalon 64 is $400 and the "pro" one is $730. So that's $740 to $1460 for comparable chips alone on the Wintel side. Never mind the cost of the motherboard, killer case and all the other stuff. Sure wholesale lots will be cheaper, but not significantly I should think.
As above, based on what? Where you get this magical $2000 price from? On the Wintel side you're talking about half of that price point or more for just the CPU and motherboard, leaving $1000 for case, power supply, controllers, drives, fans, kb, etc. DELL can't even hit the price you specify for the equipment that comes standard in the current G5 2x2. A Dell Precision 450 workstation builds out to $3828 after you add SATA,FireWire,second processor, more RAM, DVDRW, modem, etc. And that's taking out any additional cost software they put in by default.
PLEASE... show be a pre-built Wintel system with all the hardware of the current G5 2x2 that comes in at $2000, hell I'd be surprised if you could get down to $3000.
wizard said:
Apple's well known history (in my view) is to ship a quality machine at a reasonable t0 comfortable profit margin. On more than a few occasions they have released hardware that people on these boards complained was WAY overpriced (the original iMac, the iPod to name a few) that sold like hot cakes at an igloo raising. Some others have not sold well (the cube). Most Apple products sell at a comfortable rate at their price points.
Please tell me what "similar" hardware can be had for half that price. I just checked pricewatch and the Xenon 3.0GHz chip alone is $367, the "cheap" Athalon 64 is $400 and the "pro" one is $730. So that's $740 to $1460 for comparable chips alone on the Wintel side. Never mind the cost of the motherboard, killer case and all the other stuff. Sure wholesale lots will be cheaper, but not significantly I should think.
Such as? Remember, PRO doesn't mean redundant these machines are not targeted as server. What else should a "pro" machine have other than wicked fast components and lots of connectivity/expansion possibility?
As above, based on what? Where you get this magical $2000 price from? On the Wintel side you're talking about half of that price point or more for just the CPU and motherboard, leaving $1000 for case, power supply, controllers, drives, fans, kb, etc. DELL can't even hit the price you specify for the equipment that comes standard in the current G5 2x2. A Dell Precision 450 workstation builds out to $3828 after you add SATA,FireWire,second processor, more RAM, DVDRW, modem, etc. And that's taking out any additional cost software they put in by default.
PLEASE... show be a pre-built Wintel system with all the hardware of the current G5 2x2 that comes in at $2000, hell I'd be surprised if you could get down to $3000.
gerardrj said:
3700$ as posted above, for SIMILAR options, but by no means competitive. Everyone believes pc's are just so cheap, and for average consumers they are. But professionals needed a truly powerful windows workstation are going to pay just as much, if not more, than anything comparable to what apple has to offer.
gerardrj said:
Being on this site long enough, I would have no doubt spend 3G's for the Dual 2.0 G5 b/c I now see that it is worth it--however, now that's its been a year, yes, maybe the 2x2 is a little bit less, maybe 2700-2800.
But, in no way is it close to $2000. Opteron prices have only dropped a couple hundred, while mobo prices are relatively stable...again, reason to believe that the 2x2 is still around 2700-2800, now. When and if the 3x3 is released, if it is released for $2999, it would be insane. I personally don't think the current 1.8 and 2.0 G5's, as a piece of hardware, have devalued much at all on a hardware level--so putting it at 3ghz, and then selling it for the same cost, would be outrageous! We are talking about server/workstation power, on the desktop, and for only 3 grand. As a AMD-head, I will tell you that Opterons, even now, aren't cheap. For SMP processing, it will cost you a ton more than a single proc configuration. I mean, obviously you could get a single Athlon 64 (socket 754)--these wipe the floor on the 1.6 for easily half the cost; but dual 1.8's and 2.0's are an entirely different monster--b/c they have dual procs, and yet, the price remains insanely low.
*this is the distinction that needs to be made. Games, traditionally, have been developed with single proc configurations in mind...it is b/c you don't "need" a workstation to play games that is important. Gaming, on the PC, will ALWAYS be cheaper b/c of the aforementioned reason.
Workstations? That's a toss up, but Apple definitely has the software/overall bundle advantage, in all honesty.
975's?
I spent a little time on IBM's PowerPC site to try and find any official confirmation on the status of the 975. I found nothing. Nothing mentioning the 975 on the PowerPC roadmap, no documentation, not even anything on IBM's PowerPC newsletter. A quick Google reveals that any mention of the 975 is limited almost exclusively to various Mac rumors sites.
The only reason I think this might be releveant to this very page-2 rumor is this: the 970 was announced officially by IBM a full YEAR before it began shipping in volume in the form of the G5. Do we honestly think that a chip never officially announced by IBM will show up within a month in new PowerMacs? I doubt it. But I, like the others who have more conservative speculation on this, would be happy to be wrong. The over-zealous optimists might not be so happy if they turn out to be wrong.
Another thing: how big do we think this thing's going to be? 4 hard drive bays? 2 optical bays? Assuming this thing has the same cooling requirements as the current dual deuce G5, the new one would be HUGE. Believe me, I've got a G5 on my desk. It's already bordering on too big. I think we should be thinking more about capacity than the number of bays. Hard drives have much more capacity than they do in the G4 days. If you need more than 500GB, you're probably doing digital video and you should be looking at something like an Xserve RAID.
So it's too big, let's go to liquid cooling: okay we've had myriad fanatics point out that this isn't new technology, but it's far from mainstream technology. This is a potential support nightmare. Especially for a revision A model. If this is included in the next PowerMacs, you can bet that a lot of people will wait for revision B to get all the kinks worked out.
I'm no ueber-techie and I would love to be proven wrong on these counts. So if anyone ha anything resembling an official link about the 975, I would love to see it.
I think it would do us all some good to make our expectations a little more conservative. That way, we'll be more likely to be wowed and less likely to be disappointed come WWDC.
I spent a little time on IBM's PowerPC site to try and find any official confirmation on the status of the 975. I found nothing. Nothing mentioning the 975 on the PowerPC roadmap, no documentation, not even anything on IBM's PowerPC newsletter. A quick Google reveals that any mention of the 975 is limited almost exclusively to various Mac rumors sites.
The only reason I think this might be releveant to this very page-2 rumor is this: the 970 was announced officially by IBM a full YEAR before it began shipping in volume in the form of the G5. Do we honestly think that a chip never officially announced by IBM will show up within a month in new PowerMacs? I doubt it. But I, like the others who have more conservative speculation on this, would be happy to be wrong. The over-zealous optimists might not be so happy if they turn out to be wrong.
Another thing: how big do we think this thing's going to be? 4 hard drive bays? 2 optical bays? Assuming this thing has the same cooling requirements as the current dual deuce G5, the new one would be HUGE. Believe me, I've got a G5 on my desk. It's already bordering on too big. I think we should be thinking more about capacity than the number of bays. Hard drives have much more capacity than they do in the G4 days. If you need more than 500GB, you're probably doing digital video and you should be looking at something like an Xserve RAID.
So it's too big, let's go to liquid cooling: okay we've had myriad fanatics point out that this isn't new technology, but it's far from mainstream technology. This is a potential support nightmare. Especially for a revision A model. If this is included in the next PowerMacs, you can bet that a lot of people will wait for revision B to get all the kinks worked out.
I'm no ueber-techie and I would love to be proven wrong on these counts. So if anyone ha anything resembling an official link about the 975, I would love to see it.
I think it would do us all some good to make our expectations a little more conservative. That way, we'll be more likely to be wowed and less likely to be disappointed come WWDC.
Given how the G4s have evolved, it would make sense that the Rev. B G5s would encompass dual optical and 4 HD slots - though I wonder how much taller and/or wider the overall form factor would need to be? The G5s are already pretty big and heavy (compared to the G4s, and especially compared to the G3 Blue/White). Plus, 65W dual G5 chips running at 2.4 and 2.6 GHz will generate even more heat than the current lineup. Even if we assume liquid cooling, I bet these are going to be the biggest Macs yet. 
I'm no expert, but I'd gladly pay between $2000 and $3000 for a Rev. B G5. I don't need to run heavy duty "pro" programs, but I do have a lot of hobbies that would benefit from the advances this rumor mentions (Web design, Illustrator/Photoshop use, Sound Studio work, etc...), so I guess I'm more of a "power" user. I've always bought tower systems mainly because they can be easily expanded and upgraded, though the iMac/eMac lines are pretty great for the everyday households (and nonprofits too - my organization hums along fine with a bunch of G3/350 iMacs for Word/Excel/FileMaker and email, and I expect we'll continue to use them for the next three years).
I think that this is one area that Apple does really well in its tower systems lineup, making them for the "power" user (somewhere between mom & pop and serious professionals). I sometimes wonder if Apple might go the way of the PC world and further segregate its tower systems by creating a high-end "workstation" system ($4000K+) that would be the "pro"-"pro" system with full trappings that the "power" users don't really need for their work or home businesses. Although I do know a few of the serious professionals who simply buy additional upgrades for their G4/G5 systems to do all the great Shake and Maya work we see coming out of Hollywood.
Incidentally, my first "power" system was a Dell I bought for doing statistical work in grad school, and for $3600 I got a 17" monitor and a Dimention tower (PII/233, 64MB RAM, 6.5GB HD, Matrox 2000 graphics card, on board sound, and a Zip100). Wow, that was back in the day.
I'm no expert, but I'd gladly pay between $2000 and $3000 for a Rev. B G5. I don't need to run heavy duty "pro" programs, but I do have a lot of hobbies that would benefit from the advances this rumor mentions (Web design, Illustrator/Photoshop use, Sound Studio work, etc...), so I guess I'm more of a "power" user. I've always bought tower systems mainly because they can be easily expanded and upgraded, though the iMac/eMac lines are pretty great for the everyday households (and nonprofits too - my organization hums along fine with a bunch of G3/350 iMacs for Word/Excel/FileMaker and email, and I expect we'll continue to use them for the next three years).
I think that this is one area that Apple does really well in its tower systems lineup, making them for the "power" user (somewhere between mom & pop and serious professionals). I sometimes wonder if Apple might go the way of the PC world and further segregate its tower systems by creating a high-end "workstation" system ($4000K+) that would be the "pro"-"pro" system with full trappings that the "power" users don't really need for their work or home businesses. Although I do know a few of the serious professionals who simply buy additional upgrades for their G4/G5 systems to do all the great Shake and Maya work we see coming out of Hollywood.
Incidentally, my first "power" system was a Dell I bought for doing statistical work in grad school, and for $3600 I got a 17" monitor and a Dimention tower (PII/233, 64MB RAM, 6.5GB HD, Matrox 2000 graphics card, on board sound, and a Zip100). Wow, that was back in the day.
Just to chime in again on the side of those who are shooting down the idiocy of a $2000 dual-processor competiitor, I've got a nice little parts list for you people who like to trot out that old fabrication:
Tyan Thunder K8W - $436
2x AMD Opteron 246 - $461 x 2 = $922
ATI Radeon x800 Pro 256MB - $475
Enermax Noisetaker 600w PSU - $160
Soundblaster Audigy2 ZS Platinum - $206
4x Corsair 512MB PC3200 OEM-sticks - $199 x 4 = $796
Western Digital 250GB SATA 7200RPM (WD2500JD) - $192
Pioneer DVR-A07XLB - $134
With no case, no cooling system, or anything other than the core components, this system sets you back $3141 in parts. The one really, really new part of it is the Radeon x800, but they're now in the previous top price point for consumer cards.
Tyan Thunder K8W - $436
- 2x AMD Socket 940 processors (Opteron) on HT bus
- 4x PC3200 slots per processor
- 2x ATA133,, 4x SATA (RAID 0/1/0+1)
- AGP 8x, 2x PCI-Xa, 2x PCI-Xb, 1x PCI
- 2x Ps/2, 1x LPT, 2x COM, 5x USB 1.1 (3 rear), 2x FireWire 400 (1 rear), Audio ports
- Gigabit Ethernet
2x AMD Opteron 246 - $461 x 2 = $922
- 2ghz core clock
- HT FSB
- 1MB L2
ATI Radeon x800 Pro 256MB - $475
- AGP 8x
Enermax Noisetaker 600w PSU - $160
Soundblaster Audigy2 ZS Platinum - $206
- Optical SPDIF in/out
4x Corsair 512MB PC3200 OEM-sticks - $199 x 4 = $796
Western Digital 250GB SATA 7200RPM (WD2500JD) - $192
Pioneer DVR-A07XLB - $134
With no case, no cooling system, or anything other than the core components, this system sets you back $3141 in parts. The one really, really new part of it is the Radeon x800, but they're now in the previous top price point for consumer cards.
ClimbingTheLog said:
PCI-e is going to come in multiple flavors, 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x, and 16x. Your vid cards will be 16x. your GigE and FC cards will be 4x - 8x.
thatwendigo said:
I think you meant to type 'real deal', but 'ream deal' is good too...nice imagery for people who foolishly buy a dual 2GHz G5 the day before Steve announces dual 3GHz systems
One Mac Vet's Guess
I upgraded my G4 last year for lack of funds for a G5, and now I'm holding out for the next revision. Apple needs to get something out because there are lots of people in the same boat as me. My prediction is half hope and half expectation but here it goes:
$1999: Single 2 Ghz/8GB RAM/SD/Xtra Optical/4 HD's/AGP-PCI-X
$2499: Dual 2.6 /8GB RAM/SDx2/Xtra Optical/4 HD's/AGP-PCI-X
$2999: Dual 3 Ghz/16GB Ram/SDx2/Xtra Optical/4 HD's/AGP-PCI-X
By SDx2 I mean dual layer DVD burner. They might include an OEM version of the new NVidea PCI-X Graphics Card as an option. I expect a refresh of the display line to match with a 30" beast on the top end.
As long as I'm at it, I'll throw in the next iMac.
15": 1.6 G5/4GB Max Ram/64MB Graphics/SD/80GB HD
17": 1.8 G5/8GB Max Ram/64MB Graphics/SD/120GB HD
20": 1.8 G5/8GB Max Ram/128 MB Graphics/SD/120GB HD
I upgraded my G4 last year for lack of funds for a G5, and now I'm holding out for the next revision. Apple needs to get something out because there are lots of people in the same boat as me. My prediction is half hope and half expectation but here it goes:
$1999: Single 2 Ghz/8GB RAM/SD/Xtra Optical/4 HD's/AGP-PCI-X
$2499: Dual 2.6 /8GB RAM/SDx2/Xtra Optical/4 HD's/AGP-PCI-X
$2999: Dual 3 Ghz/16GB Ram/SDx2/Xtra Optical/4 HD's/AGP-PCI-X
By SDx2 I mean dual layer DVD burner. They might include an OEM version of the new NVidea PCI-X Graphics Card as an option. I expect a refresh of the display line to match with a 30" beast on the top end.
As long as I'm at it, I'll throw in the next iMac.
15": 1.6 G5/4GB Max Ram/64MB Graphics/SD/80GB HD
17": 1.8 G5/8GB Max Ram/64MB Graphics/SD/120GB HD
20": 1.8 G5/8GB Max Ram/128 MB Graphics/SD/120GB HD
I think when the G3 and G4 1st came out, they were easily 50% faster than corresponding top end models of the prior year, though not in raw MHz. Between summer 94 to summer 95, the top end went from 80MHz 601 to 132MHz 604, certainly more than 50% faster, and the 80Mhz 601 was far more than the 40MHz 60840 of the prior year. These are just 3 examples I can think of off the top of my head. The PC world has had similar big jumps, such as going from 500Mhz P2 to 1GHz P3 in under a year, although they clearly have lagged in progress in the past 12-18 months.Kid Red said:
The point is Apple needs to leapfrog PCs and not just on the $3000 tower. An SP G5 for many things is no faster than an SP P4 or Athlon 64, Opteron, etc at the same price. The DPs are where it's at, and they start at $2499 after nearly a year since they were announced. It's nuts. The G5 needs to be across the line ASAP. Even a 1.4GHz G5 in an iBook would likely be slower than similarly priced PCs. Apple made huge progress with the G5, agreed, but only enough to barely get back to where they were before the 5 year long G4 debacle.
LittleJohn said:
I think this is very realistic although I hope the prices stay the same and not go higher as you have indicated there. I have money in the bank for the middle model. if for some crazy reason the entry level ends up being dual I may even buy that but I doubt it will. I will buy whatever the lowest dual is and get at least 2 gb ram. stock everything else.
the middle model may end up being lower than 2.6 but even 2.2 or 2.4 is fine by me.
Mav451 said:
Do what I just did... Go to Apple's web site and click on the store tab. About 2/3 of the way down the page on the left side is a red tag and "special deals" link. Click it.
Again way down the list you'll find DUAL 2.0Ghz G5 systems for $2,399! That's $100 less than a new 2x1.8 and shipping is free.
Yes, they are refurbs not "brand spanking new". I look at it this way... a refurb has gone through Apple QC twice, it's just that much less likely you will have any problems.