G5 Waiting Discussion (again)

[Skiniftz]

To go past 2Ghz with sensible heat dissipation and power consumption, the chip will have to be the 970FX 90nm version.

Incidentally the 970FX has a 1.1Ghz bus (i.e. 2.2Ghz CPU) and is officially listed by IBM as going "2.0+Ghz" with less than half the power consumption of the 130nm chip when matching it at 2Ghz.

I've had the cash to buy a G5 since the middle of last month and have been upgrading my studio as I'm switching to Mac from PC, however this waiting is starting to very much annoy me.

For the people who say "buy now" etc, I want you to imagine spending over $4100, (£2299 in the UK) then finding out next week that you just wasted $1000, or could have got the new top of the line for the same price by waiting a week. That's what this is about.

 

[26139]

Re: G5 Waiting Discussion (again)

Originally posted by invaLPsion
I think it's about time one of these was posted again, because here we are without LONG overdue powermac updates and with few rumors that they will come anytime soon. I am starting to get pissed off because I have purchased about $600 worth of hardare to go with my new G5 and I don't have a G5 to plug them in to.

Did you buy furniture for your house before you bought one? Why would you buy software for a machine you don't have?

 

[Skiniftz]

Re: Re: G5 Waiting Discussion (again)

Originally posted by appleretailguy
Did you buy furniture for your house before you bought one? Why would you buy software for a machine you don't have?

He said he bought hardware, not software.

I too have just spent $1000 on hardware (namely a MOTU 828MkII) to use with my non-existant G5, but am presently forced to use it on the PC (not the best platform for it but it works).

 

[Foxer]

Re: Re: G5 Waiting Discussion (again)

Originally posted by appleretailguy
Did you buy furniture for your house before you bought one? Why would you buy software for a machine you don't have?

As a matter of fact, we did. Family room and dining room sets delivered two months before we closed. We knew we were going to need something to sit on.

Regarding the product line. PowerMacs should all be dual-processor machines, while iMacs keep the single processor. That way, you can have both running G5, but a major power edge to the pro machine. They have dileniated the laptop market by keeping Superdrives and FW800 out of iBooks, so there is a precedent.

 

[Edot]

Long Time?

The PowerMac G5 did not start shipping until Sept. This would place Apple's normal cycle of updates in Feb/March. Why is everyone so upset!? Besides when they do release the next revision it is going to be at least 400Mhz update to make their 3Ghz prediction this fall. This is WAY more than the 200Mhz max per revision that we have been seeing from Moto. the last few years. Calm down, they will be coming, and if you really need it now than just get one.

 

[numediaman]

By the way, I'm the one who said that they bought software before the computer.

The reason is simple: I own more than one Mac -- so the software won't just sit there. The new stuff would not have been bought if I didn't think I'd get a new computer -- but since I know a new G5 will be coming (at some point) I might as well buy the stuff when I find the best deal -- no reason to wait and pass up a rebate or a price reduction, right?

 

[Mav451]

Re: Wait

Originally posted by AWNR
I could go down the street right now, and buy a top of the line parts for under $300 and build a PC from scratch. But that’s not what I want. That’s not what I *need*.

That’s probably the best advice when it comes to computer-buying. Do you really need those extra megahertz? Right now? At this very moment?

Because of money-issues, I’ll have to wait a couple of months anyway – but it *is* that time of year, and updated G5’s are substantially rumoured to be coming soon. Also, don’t forget that Steve promised us shiny new 3Ghz G5’s by the end of the summer. There are even reports that IBM has managed to reduce the production cost of the G5’s by quite a bit.

My argument for not buying a PC right now, and waiting for the Mac, is that with a 3 year warranty, I expect the computer I buy to be all I need for the next 3 years. Would you rather have a G5 in three years, or a Wintel stuck with a, by then, six year old OS? (Longhorn won’t be out until the end of your warranty on either machine anyway).

Personally, I’d wait a couple of weeks, at least. Especially with all the rumour-mongering that’s surrounded the G5 of late.

It is not good to generalize the Wintel world as simply "more megahertz" -- otherwise everyone would be wasting their money on Celerons (and wasting is a kind euphemism for those who suffer with Celerons).

For 300 dollars, you cannot get either side, AMD or Intel's, "top of the line". You CAN build yourself a solid 2-year Athlon XP or Pentium 2.4C based system.

Top of the line with Intel is exorbitant, while on the AMD side, you can get literally half a step from the best for only 400 dollars (Athlon64 3400+) and for 200 dollars less, the true equivalent to the 3.2Ghz Pentium 4, the Athlon64 3200+.

Mind you, it is not "megahertz" as the normal Mac generalization goes. The Athlon64 3200+ is world's different from the several month old Athlon XP 3200+. While the Barton Core was the last gasp of breath for the aging XP platform, the Athlon64 is fresh with an on-die memory controller (along with SSE2 instructions, 1MB L2 cache).

The Athlon64 3200+ runs only at 2ghz, and yet can beat a 3.2Ghz Pentium 4. The considerably older XP Barton 3200+, running at 2.2ghz, is more comparable with the 3.0Ghz Pentium 4.

The "its only more megahertz" argument has been over since the introduction of the 32/64 bit lineup by AMD.

But...if you only look at Intel's lineup, i would be inclined to agree with you.

A few pictures from Firingsquad.com illustrate the dying "its only megahertz" myth as we know it. Pay close attention to where the XP 3200+ scores are in comparison to the similarly clocked Athlon64 3400+ (runs at 2.2ghz as well).

Also take note of the Athlon64 3200+ (running at only 2ghz) which runs at a lower clock than the XP 3200+, and still has a considerable lead on the old XP 3200+

A gamepc.com review also illustrates this point...simple look at the the Photoshop test: http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=athlon64&page=8

and the UT2003 botmatch:
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=athlon64&page=6

 

[invaLPsion]

Re: Re: Wait

Originally posted by Mav451
It is not good to generalize the Wintel world as simply "more megahertz" -- otherwise everyone would be wasting their money on Celerons (and wasting is a kind euphemism for those who suffer with Celerons).

For 300 dollars, you cannot get either side, AMD or Intel's, "top of the line". You CAN build yourself a solid 2-year Athlon XP or Pentium 2.4C based system.

Top of the line with Intel is exorbitant, while on the AMD side, you can get literally half a step from the best for only 400 dollars (Athlon64 3400+) and for 200 dollars less, the true equivalent to the 3.2Ghz Pentium 4, the Athlon64 3200+.

Mind you, it is not "megahertz" as the normal Mac generalization goes. The Athlon64 3200+ is world's different from the several month old Athlon XP 3200+. While the Barton Core was the last gasp of breath for the aging XP platform, the Athlon64 is fresh with an on-die memory controller (along with SSE2 instructions, 1MB L2 cache).

The Athlon64 3200+ runs only at 2ghz, and yet can beat a 3.2Ghz Pentium 4. The considerably older XP Barton 3200+, running at 2.2ghz, is more comparable with the 3.0Ghz Pentium 4.

The "its only more megahertz" argument has been over since the introduction of the 32/64 bit lineup by AMD.

But...if you only look at Intel's lineup, i would be inclined to agree with you.

A few pictures from Firingsquad.com illustrate the dying "its only megahertz" myth as we know it. Pay close attention to where the XP 3200+ scores are in comparison to the similarly clocked Athlon64 3400+ (runs at 2.2ghz as well).

Also take note of the Athlon64 3200+ (running at only 2ghz) which runs at a lower clock than the XP 3200+, and still has a considerable lead on the old XP 3200+

A gamepc.com review also illustrates this point...simple look at the the Photoshop test: http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=athlon64&page=8

and the UT2003 botmatch:
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=athlon64&page=6

Back to discussing waiting for the new G5s then...

 

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by AWNR
...Actually, the G5's have seen on update since then. The dual 1.8's.

That's a product realignment...

But it does seem to have done it's job of sucking the newbies into thinking it's an update.

Sort of like putting curb feelers, fuzzy dash mat, and neon racing stripes on a Bently and calling it the all new GTX.

err.... Maybe not quite like that, that's more of a GM thing.

 

[Downdivx]

If we don't see a PM update soon, I don't think there will be one until June. If there is going to be a stepping stone up to 3GHz, it has to come soon, otherwise everyone will just look at it and say "well, there will be 3GHz's in June, so I'll just stick it out."
Honestly, I want PM updates, but I don't think we'll see it. Right now the PM is selling like crazy (check out the shipping waits), so there really isn't any motivation for Apple to upgrade them. Why go through the time and expense of designing and testing new/faster chips when they are going to be replaced again in only 4 months.
Instead I'm afraid apple will just wait until WWDC 2004.

W

 

[AWNR]

Re: Re: Wait

Originally posted by Mav451
It is not good to generalize the Wintel world as simply "more megahertz"

That wasn't what I was implying. But the general notion here, is that we're waiting for a Rev-B G5.

I'm pretty sure most people know about the megahertz myth by now. That's the whole reason why AMD started grading their systems by performance isntead of Mhz.

But, yeah, back to waiting for a G5 update.

 

[invaLPsion]

Powermacs tomorrow or next week?

Does anybody think that the painful wait will end and we will have new powermacs tomorrow or next week? (according to two rumor sites)

 

[amnesiac1984]

Re: Re: Re: Wait

Originally posted by AWNR
That wasn't what I was implying. But the general notion here, is that we're waiting for a Rev-B G5.

I'm pretty sure most people know about the megahertz myth by now. That's the whole reason why AMD started grading their systems by performance isntead of Mhz.

But, yeah, back to waiting for a G5 update.

only people who read mags about computers and who go to forums like these. It still is a wide spread myth.

 

[aswitcher]

Re: Powermacs tomorrow or next week?

Originally posted by invaLPsion
Does anybody think that the painful wait will end and we will have new powermacs tomorrow or next week? (according to two rumor sites)

My view is that unless ThinkSecret post something, it has little weight...

 

[wdlove]

Originally posted by numediaman
By the way, I'm the one who said that they bought software before the computer.

The reason is simple: I own more than one Mac -- so the software won't just sit there. The new stuff would not have been bought if I didn't think I'd get a new computer -- but since I know a new G5 will be coming (at some point) I might as well buy the stuff when I find the best deal -- no reason to wait and pass up a rebate or a price reduction, right?

I agree, it's good to purchase an item when you can get the best price. At least your are getting some use out of your purchases. I hope that your wait for a G5 won't be too long.

 

[invaLPsion]

Powermacs at release of 10.3.3?

MacOSRumors now believes that 10.3.3 is being almost specifically made to address G5 issues and to be able to take advantage of the new technology in the new 90nm processor. Apple wants to get the 10.3.3 update out so it will ship with new powermacs at speeds up to 2.6GHz.

If you think about it, a lot of stuff has been going around about the size of this update and how big it will be for Panther. It is also possible that the reason the G5s have not been released is because the new update will greatly improve new G5 performance and Apple wants updated G5s to take advantage of this. IT ALL MAKES SENSE!

 

[invaLPsion]

Re: Powermacs at release of 10.3.3?

Originally posted by invaLPsion
MacOSRumors now believes that 10.3.3 is being almost specifically made to address G5 issues and to be able to take advantage of the new technology in the new 90nm processor. Apple wants to get the 10.3.3 update out so it will ship with new powermacs at speeds up to 2.6GHz.

If you think about it, a lot of stuff has been going around about the size of this update and how big it will be for Panther. It is also possible that the reason the G5s have not been released is because the new update will greatly improve new G5 performance and Apple wants updated G5s to take advantage of this. IT ALL MAKES SENSE!

This is backed up by MacOSXRumors.com. They are saying that multiple sources have informed them that Apple has ordered over 500,000 90nm G5 processors for the quarter alone, with possible increases to the order. With that amount of G5s coming it can be assumed that iMacs, too could be waiting for 10.3.3 to see an update to their line.

 

[Skiniftz]

Right that's it. I'm going to make do with my PC and wait it out.

 

[26139]

Sorry...

Originally posted by numediaman
By the way, I'm the one who said that they bought software before the computer.

The reason is simple: I own more than one Mac -- so the software won't just sit there. The new stuff would not have been bought if I didn't think I'd get a new computer -- but since I know a new G5 will be coming (at some point) I might as well buy the stuff when I find the best deal -- no reason to wait and pass up a rebate or a price reduction, right?

My apologies. I mistakenly assumed you were either a PC user or had a fairly old Mac. I completely understand your reasons for buying the software, and I second your frustration with the absence of a G5 upgrade.

 

[numediaman]

No problem.

About the rumor . . . If true (and I repeat, if true) this would be very good news. The next round of G5s will be not be purchased by first adapters. They, like me, will want a rock solid machine. Shipping new G5s after the release of 10.3.3 makes a lot of sense in this regard.

The bad news is, however, that Apple Insider reports today that 10.3.3 has been pulled off the developer site (or something like that). Sounds like they still have some work to do before they can release the next OS update.

Having said all that . . . if you are waiting to buy a G5, I recommend spending a good amount of time in the advice forums here, and at Apple support. You'll hear a lot of bad things -- but this is fairly normal at troubleshooting forums. But it will prepare you for some of the possible problems you may encounter. The ones that worry me the most include graphic card issues (black screen, sleeping issues), iDVD4 and iMovie4 issues, and random freeze issues. I think that a revisionb G5 and new fixes to the OS should solve many of these problems -- but it is good to be prepared.

As I've stated before, look for the new G5s in March -- if before, great. (I just looked at the calendar -- my birthday is on a Tuesday in March -- is this a sign?)

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

considering the fact that apple sells about 200,000 powermacs per quarter then where does that 300,000 chips go? Imac? lets hope so. xserve sales have to be very very small so either a G5 imac or a new G5 product has to be on its way.

 

[invaLPsion]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
considering the fact that apple sells about 200,000 powermacs per quarter then where does that 300,000 chips go? Imac? lets hope so. xserve sales have to be very very small so either a G5 imac or a new G5 product has to be on its way.

Don't forget that the chips for the Xserve were already ordered in 4th quarter to be ready for them to ship at MWSF. So all of those chips could go towards powermacs or iMacs. I hope will will see a major revamp of Apple's desktop lineup soon, as it is in need of an update. In addition, to keep the powerbooks on track, maybe we could see dual processor powerbooks or low speed G5 powerbooks.

 

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
considering the fact that apple sells about 200,000 powermacs per quarter then where does that 300,000 chips go? Imac? lets hope so. xserve sales have to be very very small so either a G5 imac or a new G5 product has to be on its way.

And how many of those are DP PowerMac G5s?

They do happen to eat up TWO CPUs per machine.

So some of those 300,000 CPUs are likely to end up in DP PowerMacs, DP XServe G5, and/or SP XServe G5.

Which might leave 100,000 for iMacs or less.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

out of the 500,000 970's we have 200,000 powermacs sales. so i would say less then 100,000 are duals and the other singles so that uses about 300,000 chips or less. that leaves 200,000 G5s. out of those i would say maybe 25,000 to xserve and that has to be very generous. so we now have 175,000 left over G5s(970s). If Apple comes out with a new product it would be about right. If apple comes out with a G5 Imac it probably will sell next to the current G4 Imac for awhile and again it will be about right. then again maybe a new powerbook G5. anyway you look at it we have a new G5 product coming. now the question is what is it?

 

[Hackcomic.com]

I finally did it- couldn't wait on the rumors anymore- I bought a G5 1.8 single for $1699 with printer. Which means 2 things- #1 I wont be reading this anymore, I dont want to know when the new ones come out. #2 The new ones will come out the day my G5 arrives.