G6!!

James Philp

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The processor cycles are contiuing, maybe the rate has decreased a bit but remember:
The G5 is now appearing in lower end models like iMacs, and the G4 is in low-end laptops (iBook).
It's not completely out of the question in that Apple are starting to consider the G6!? (Is it?)

What I mean by this is a different generation of chips.

With concerns to portability, if I were Steve Jobs, id be thinking now of a whole new range of processors, call them G5p's, that wouldn't be G5's but a different type of Processor that would be that much better than the current G4's.

At this stage last time (G3 in iBook, G4 in iMac, Dual G4 in PowerMac) Apple released the G5 - remember?!
 

Logik

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Apr 24, 2004
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James Philp said:
The processor cycles are contiuing, maybe the rate has decreased a bit but remember:
The G5 is now appearing in lower end models like iMacs, and the G4 is in low-end laptops (iBook).
It's not completely out of the question in that Apple are starting to consider the G6!? (Is it?)

What I mean by this is a different generation of chips.

With concerns to portability, if I were Steve Jobs, id be thinking now of a whole new range of processors, call them G5p's, that wouldn't be G5's but a different type of Processor that would be that much better than the current G4's.

At this stage last time (G3 in iBook, G4 in iMac, Dual G4 in PowerMac) Apple released the G5 - remember?!
except apple has no real control over the chips, IBM makes them. As such you won't be seeing the PPC980 for at least another year and a half and the earliest. The G5 has lots of room to grow yet. This is total speculation on your part and has no grounds at all. Sorry but you won't be seeing a G6 for a long time.
 

James Philp

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Logik said:
except apple has no real control over the chips, IBM makes them. As such you won't be seeing the PPC980 for at least another year and a half and the earliest. The G5 has lots of room to grow yet. This is total speculation on your part and has no grounds at all. Sorry but you won't be seeing a G6 for a long time.
What tosh! We got the G5 simply because Motorolla Couldn't come up with faster G4's to keep up with the PC market.
Apple DOES have complete control over what components it can put in it's computers. There's no way that IBM wrangled them into an exclusivity clause, because as we speak, apple are using other manufactures' CPUs in other computers! There's nothing to stop Apple Corp. going out there and signing up another CPU manufacturer for the "next-gen"!
 

Bear

macrumors G3
Jul 23, 2002
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James Philp said:
What tosh! We got the G5 simply because Motorolla Couldn't come up with faster G4's to keep up with the PC market.
Apple DOES have complete control over what components it can put in it's computers. There's no way that IBM wrangled them into an exclusivity clause, because as we speak, apple are using other manufactures' CPUs in other computers! There's nothing to stop Apple Corp. going out there and signing up another CPU manufacturer for the "next-gen"!
Actually, Apple is already buying from freescale and IBM. Who else makes the G4/G5 chips? Apple can only go to someone who makes them as it would take even longer for a new company to ramp up development.
 

Logik

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Apr 24, 2004
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Bear said:
Actually, Apple is already buying from freescale and IBM. Who else makes the G4/G5 chips? Apple can only go to someone who makes them as it would take even longer for a new company to ramp up development.
exactly. Moto (freescale) has already pretty much proven they can't keep up.

Think about it this way, IBM has a lot of investment in the G5 (PPC970) it has a lot of life left in it. The next big processor will likely be based on the Power5, which will be called PPC980 and probably be a "G6" but i wouldn't expect it to come out anytime soon, especially with IBM ramping up production of G5's, dual-core G5's are in the pipeline so I seriously do not see IBM switching to a Power5 architecture anytime soon.

by the way, if you just use common sense you'd probably be able to agree with me here. Sure, Apple can run off and have anyone make PPC chips for them, however at this rate you won't be seeing any significant developments from anyone but Freescale or IBM. IBM has a big investment in the Dual-Core G5 processors and Freescale, well, who knows, but from my understanding (and this could be wrong) they are working on dual-core G4's and whatever that new pin for pin compatible chip is.. 7884 or whatever it is.
 

yellow

Moderator emeritus
Oct 21, 2003
15,925
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I seriously doubt that Apple would abandon IBM and the G5 for quite a while. There's some G5 barriers that need to be passed, or admitted to being unable to pass before Apple goes shopping for new CPUs from a different source. I expect the G5 will be the defacto chip for quite some time to come. At least 3-5 more years.
 

James Philp

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Cell?

Who's making the cell proccessor? And is there really no chance that Apple may adopt it.
I wasnt inplying that the G5 would be abandoned - just look at the G4 - still going strong in some flagship models, years after the introdution of the G5!
 

PlaceofDis

macrumors Core
Jan 6, 2004
19,232
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James Philp said:
Who's making the cell proccessor? And is there really no chance that Apple may adopt it.
I wasnt inplying that the G5 would be abandoned - just look at the G4 - still going strong in some flagship models, years after the introdution of the G5!
i doubt Apple will be hopping onto the cell processor, and from what i have heard it is not the best for computer environments, but more for smaller electronics such as the PS3 and the like....
 

psycho bob

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Oct 25, 2003
638
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Leeds, England
And where exactly would apple go if they left Freescale and IBM? The only other major CPU makers are Intel and AMD which would mean a complete change of architecture and software.
Freescale haven't really done a bad job with the G4 when you consider the complete lack of major improvements during its life with Motorola. What we need to see though is the G4's replacement the e600 that has the making of a great mobile chip.
The only major issue at the moment is with G5 clockspeeds and news of dual cores. For a chip maker IBM are almost as secretive as apple but probably with good cause as our favourite fruit is the only major customer for the 970 at the moment. Currently everyones bitching is based on rumours, I'll reserve judgement until apple announce something.
Forget what it means for apple, chip development is what makes IBM especially as they are selling off the PC side of things. Apple have options, IBM don't; they need to make progress or it will cost them.
Apple could adopt the Cell which is on course and with major backers like Sony and Toshiba will come to market as planned. IBM have the Power 5 which is a very powerful chip; worst comes to the worst and G5 development stalls put a Power 5 core in there and raise prices.
 

psycho bob

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Oct 25, 2003
638
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PlaceofDis said:
i doubt Apple will be hopping onto the cell processor, and from what i have heard it is not the best for computer environments, but more for smaller electronics such as the PS3 and the like....
The Cell is fantastic for computer environments. In many ways it could be the biggest piece of CPU developement since the first x86 chip.
For a discussion and Cell info look here http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cells/Cell0.html
The Cell is very scallable hence the reason Toshiba are part of its design group and want to put it in there media and home entertainment products.
 

James Philp

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psycho bob said:
Freescale haven't really done a bad job with the G4 when you consider the complete lack of major improvements during its life with Motorola.
Totally agree, when the G5 came out, I think we all thought the G4 was dead!
psycho bob said:
The only major issue at the moment is with G5 clockspeeds and news of dual cores. For a chip maker IBM are almost as secretive as apple but probably with good cause as our favourite fruit is the only major customer for the 970 at the moment.
Isn't the new Xbox based around the 970? If so, that's a huge demand!
psycho bob said:
Currently everyones bitching is based on rumours, I'll reserve judgement until apple announce something.
- Sorry, didn't mean to sould like I was bitching!

Just wanted to bring up the subject, thought it would be interestion to find out what peopple think will happen!
 

Lord Blackadder

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May 7, 2004
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You won't see a Cell processor in a Mac.

The G5 is just beginning what will likely be a very long life cycle in Apple computers. Remember that the G4 (which is essentially a heavily modified G3 ) dates back to 1999 and will be in the Mac lineup for a few years more at least. Freescale WILL produce a Dual Core G4 and it WILL show up in the Powerbook unless IBM performs miracles with the 970 series. And it will be fast. very fast. Don't get caught up in "G-numbers" - look at the Pentium M, which is based on the PIII rather than the P4 but is a very competitive CPU.
 

psycho bob

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Oct 25, 2003
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James Philp said:
Isn't the new Xbox based around the 970? If so, that's a huge demand!
- Sorry, didn't mean to sould like I was bitching!

Just wanted to bring up the subject, thought it would be interestion to find out what peopple think will happen!
Sorry the bitching comment was aimed at people in the new Powermac rumours thread not you.
The Xbox 2 is based around some form of 970 I meant that of this very moment apple is the only company currently using them. Plus Xbox 2 will not be updated with new CPU's during its life cycle this still leaves apple as the only buyer for updated chips.
 

psycho bob

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Oct 25, 2003
638
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Leeds, England
Lord Blackadder said:
You won't see a Cell processor in a Mac.

The G5 is just beginning what will likely be a very long life cycle in Apple computers. Remember that the G4 (which is essentially a heavily modified G3 ) dates back to 1999 and will be in the Mac lineup for a few years more at least. Freescale WILL produce a Dual Core G4 and it WILL show up in the Powerbook unless IBM performs miracles with the 970 series. And it will be fast. very fast. Don't get caught up in "G-numbers" - look at the Pentium M, which is based on the PIII rather than the P4 but is a very competitive CPU.
The Cell is 'not' a replacement for the G5 or indeed any other PPC processor they would work in combination. The G5 as the master brain the Cells as the compute nodes. Apple have to do what is best for them and if the Cell is an option they should take it.
 

Logik

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Apr 24, 2004
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psycho bob said:
The Cell is a replacement for the G5 or indeed any other PPC processor they would work in combination. The G5 as the master brain the Cells as the compute nodes. Apple have to do what is best for them and if the Cell is an option they should take it.
the cell just splits up the different parts of a processor into serveral processors, albeit very fast and specialized processors. the one that is going in the PS3 is lacking a bunch of stuff that is NEEDED for a PC. As such it is not a viable solution. The Cell does not mean it has a main controlling brain such as the G5, it just means it uses very specialized "parts" of a typical processor. But programming for the cell processors is a complete Bitch to say the least. So i would not see this as a viable solution for at least another 5-10 years.

EDIT:
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/cell-1.ars
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/cell-2.ars
 

James Philp

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psycho bob said:
The Xbox 2 is based around some form of 970 I meant that of this very moment apple is the only company currently using them. Plus Xbox 2 will not be updated with new CPU's during its life cycle this still leaves apple as the only buyer for updated chips.
Apparently the Xbox 2 is due sometime this year, and being demoed on MTV in the next month right? (Par example here
This means that surely production is either very close to starting, or has alredy done so? (I hear Xbox 2 is dual CPU) To meet demand? (Don;t want another PowerMac scandal!)
Plus - It IS likely to mave some kind of continual revision to continually cut costs during the product lifetime. The components in my xbox are actually different (models and manufactures but NOT funtionally) to ones you buy now, which means continual development for IBM right?
 

Logik

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Apr 24, 2004
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brap said:
Whatever the next CPU actually is, "G6" is a crappy moniker.

Just doesn't sound quite right.
indeed, sounds like that unexciting Pontiac G6.. did i mention it looks like a jellybean? *yawn*
 

James Philp

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Logik said:
indeed, sounds like that unexciting Pontiac G6.. did i mention it looks like a jellybean? *yawn*
Did you like the G5p though?
What would you call it? - Fly in the face of tradition, or summit catchy like the PPC1032!
 

Logik

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Apr 24, 2004
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James Philp said:
Did you like the G5p though?
What would you call it? - Fly in the face of tradition, or summit catchy like the PPC1032!
i'm not in marketing.. if i were i wouldn't understand half of what i do about computers. all i know is it doesn't sound very good. *shrugs* go talk to apple marketing about that one.
 

Lord Blackadder

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psycho bob said:
The Cell is 'not' a replacement for the G5 or indeed any other PPC processor they would work in combination. The G5 as the master brain the Cells as the compute nodes. Apple have to do what is best for them and if the Cell is an option they should take it.
The Cell processor isn't code or pin compatible with current Apple CPUs. It does have IBM POWER cores in it, true, but there is no real reason to switch to a Cell processor once the 970MP becomes available.

My post was mostly referring to the G5 having a long life ahead of it, so there is no need to be looking at Cells or G6s for the forseable future. Also, I was trying to say that the G4 is a very underrated design that also still has a lot of life left in it.
 

psycho bob

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Oct 25, 2003
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Logik said:
the cell just splits up the different parts of a processor into serveral processors, albeit very fast and specialized processors. the one that is going in the PS3 is lacking a bunch of stuff that is NEEDED for a PC. As such it is not a viable solution. The Cell does not mean it has a main controlling brain such as the G5, it just means it uses very specialized "parts" of a typical processor. But programming for the cell processors is a complete Bitch to say the least. So i would not see this as a viable solution for at least another 5-10 years.
The Cell model that was introduced at the IBM announcement was effectively made up of two parts a Processing Unit (PU) and Attached Processing Units (APU) the latter are effectively what make up the Cells. The PU is rumoured to be based on a current 64bit IBM chip, whether this is 970 or POWER based does not really matter. The PU simply acts as a controller distributing software data to the APU's.
Th APU's are not coprocessors each one is fully independant. They are designed to process Vector instructions. The programming issues with the Cell are primarily due to the lack of cache and virtual memory which means they operate in a different way but they still work and the performance gains if the effort is taken are huge.
The ideal option for apple would be to adopt the Cell as a coprocessor to say a G5 thus giving them the best of both worlds. Tiger already has visual OS elements being passed off to the GPU these could easily be passed of onto a Cell instead. GUI processing would just be the first step but would bring something new and exciting to the mac platform. It would also mean that with the right programming and marketing apple would genuinely have a system that for Vector processing would be unsurpassed.
There was an interesting article about an American company that is designing software to enable the GPU to handle audio processing and that is with current OS's and hardware. CPU's just cannot match the raw power of GPU's. In raw GFlop terms the NVIDIA 6800 produces around 40 as opposed to a single core P4 using SSE instructions comes in at under 10. GPU's and the Cell work in very similar ways, it was after all designed primarily for graphics work.
The technology is out there and will be adopted by someone. So while I admit it will be hard the gains are obvious. The PS3 will use Cells to process data and although limited compared to the tasks a computer might do the games will have to be designed and the programming will need to take place and all by the end of the year.
 

James Philp

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So the Cell is the sort on international terrorist of the CPU world that will eventually be everywhere!?
:D :D
We have a Splinter Cell - Oh No!
 

psycho bob

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Oct 25, 2003
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James Philp said:
So the Cell is the sort on international terrorist of the CPU world that will eventually be everywhere!?
:D :D
We have a Splinter Cell - Oh No!
lol :p good job we aren't back in the 50's. In the Cold War climate the Cell would be called a Communist plot! Trying to get inside our Western minds and bring us down from inside.
Anyway forget PCB and microchip based computing molecules and bionics are the way forward! I want my crystaline storage device :D
 

James Philp

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psycho bob said:
lol :p good job we aren't back in the 50's. In the Cold War climate the Cell would be called a Communist plot! Trying to get inside our Western minds and bring us down from inside.
Anyway forget PCB and microchip based computing molecules and bionics are the way forward! I want my crystaline storage device :D
I want my PowerMac Neuro™.
The only computer where the maintenance it to insert water and food suppliments into the tube in the top! Give it too much protein and you have to call the nutritionist out!