Game Center Drops Support for iPhone 3G and 2nd Gen iPod Touch in iOS 4.1 Beta 3

[Mini Me]

Without sounding thick, surely Game Center is purely a software driven feature, hardly pushing the 3D envelope, so why does it matter what hardware it's run on ... except of course Apple wanting you to upgrade.

 

[NakedPaulToast]

Every time a thread like this gets started, whether it be through news or someone complaining, it always blows my mind.

You complain because your 2 gen prior hardware can't run the latest software meant for the latest hardware. You cite Apple as being cheap and greedy, and that there should be no reason why you can't run it on your old hardware as if new software developments don't take advantage of the new hardware or anything, thus making it a natural prerequisite.

Then you complain when they DO allow it, because it "doesn't run well," since you know, it's meant for new hardware. And no, just because you purchased it recently doesn't make it it new. You cite them being greedy again, as if they intentionally made it run poorly on your old hardware (which coincidentally doesn't have the needed juice to run a more resource intensive OS well). Also, no one's forcing you to update your firmware.

Then you complain because features are disabled. You cite how the JB community as had them, blah blah, without realizing that Apple isn't the jailbreak community and that their implementation is far different (and less efficient). You then call Apple greedy again, without realizing that your processor and RAM is the bottleneck for the lack of new features, and that if you turned off Spotlight indexing you'd have less performance issues.

Then you complain that Apple isn't taking their software far enough, and that it doesn't have enough "next-gen" features and advancements, and that the jailbreak community has far better implementation, yada yada. Do you realize the irony in this statement? Anyone who complains about iOS4 on a 3G and then says they want a more advanced iOS4+ is a HUGE hypocrite. Nah, bar hypocrite, just a blithering idiot. You can have one or the other. More advanced OS = less backwards compatibility, and greater hardware overhead requirements. Therefore if they were to make it more advanced, then there would be less support for prior models (even the 3GS).

At this point the "fandroids" as they are affectionately called come crashing into the thread, spreading their overzealous drivel. They also call Apple greedy, and while Apple IS greedy (what company isn't?), its not because of this. Cutting support for 2 gen prior hardware that doesn't meet the needed system specs for new software is not being greedy. But that doesn't matter to these zealots, because they'll then cite how Android is everywhere and is everything, and can do everything and is the greatest thing to ever grace this planet, while the iOS is utter crap. They'll probably insert a reception joke, 5 times, because they think its witty. Of course, there's one problem with this argument, in so far as Android isn't really backwards compatible either... most people with older android phones aren't running 2.2, hell, even 2, and even new phones won't get support when the next revision comes out, followed by the next 30 Android phones, all within the same year. Thus your 1-2 year old android phone will be behind, but somehow, in this case, it's not the manufacturers fault and their not being "greedy," simply because you state it as such. Same situation, different companies, but somehow its entirely different. Explain to me that one.

Of course I forgot the Apple "fanboys" that will come crashing into this thread too; they'll cite how Apple is the greatest ever, and how Android is the worst ever. They'll throw some FUD around, say Apple's implementation is the best, and how no one can do better.

Then there's a few of us (I'd like to consider myself one of them) who realize the merits (and disadvantages) of both, without swinging biases towards either product base. It's unreasonable to expect 2-gen prior support for anything, so stop complaining. The fact that they even allowed it all should be considered a plus, because it means they DO care. Also, many iOS implementations of features suck compared to the JB community. That's just fact, especially multitasking. Android devices are no better though; they have their own fair share of issues, and also suffer from the prior-generation syndrome. The bottom line is that there is no "best," there's no such thing as perfect, prior-gen hardware will never get the latest software, and people have an unwarranted sense of entitlement.

This is how every one of these threads goes.

You make it sound like, the people you are talking about are the same group of people, and are therefore being hypocritical.

They're not. The people complaining about iOS 4 being way to slow for their 3G are a different group of people complaining about iOS 4 not providing enough features for their 3G.

You also do not understand the mindset of the typical phone consumer. They are often not technically savvy. They plug their phone into their computer, iTunes tells them they have an update, as it has done in the past. They click OK.

It installs iOS 4. Their phone is now intolerably slow. There is no Apple provided solution to fall back to the previous OS.

 

[iSlave]

Really glad I jailbroke my 3G a couple of days ago. Now I can do such impossible things like multitasking and change my wallpaper. Oh, and Installous has saved me a fortune.

Screw you, Apple.

 

[nagromme]

I hope this is reversed, because developers are going to be hesitant to solve the “fragmentation” problem by further fragmenting the market Game Center shouldn’t need more power than the 3G has (OpenFeint doesn’t!) and so if GC doesn’t run well on those devices, I consider that a flaw to be addressed in GC.

 

[tigress666]

You also do not understand the mindset of the typical phone consumer. They are often not technically savvy. They plug their phone into their computer, iTunes tells them they have an update, as it has done in the past. They click OK.

It installs iOS 4. Their phone is now intolerably slow. There is no Apple provided solution to fall back to the previous OS.

But he's talking about the responses you see on this website and I'd argue the average consumer isn't on this website .

But I do think Apple should let them install an older OS if they decide they want to go back.

 

[mysticalos]

all the reports of slow ios on 3g i've heard i cannot even confirm with my own.mine runs FASTER than it did on ios3, not slower. but i too did a clean restore upgrade. i get the feeling the issue isn't the phone can't run the OS, the issue is when people upgrade vs restore. upgrading probably leaves file conflicts or some kind of bug on device that makes it run crappy. do a restore and i bet it runs smooth.

 

[iMAVERICKam]

haha love it.

this is probably because of the hardware limitation of the 3g and 2g touch, i know its only two years and apple should support these devices for a good few years (few being more than two)

Considering that brand new iPhone 3Gs (not 3G S but 3G plural) were being sold 2½ months ago I'd say yes they need to be supporting them for a while. Which is to say, they should keep providing the stability & security updates of future iOS releases, even if new features (i.e. Game Center) can't be made available due to hardware constraints.

 

[darkplanets]

You make it sound like, the people you are talking about are the same group of people, and are therefore being hypocritical.

They're not. The people complaining about iOS 4 being way to slow for their 3G are a different group of people complaining about iOS 4 not providing enough features for their 3G.

I'm quite aware of that; I thought it was pretty clear that each section represented a different grouping based on stereotypes, especially given the "fandroid" and "fanboy" delineations, but clearly I wasn't concise enough. My apologies . I'll edit that to make it clearer; I could see where the usage of "you" and "you then" for the introductory clauses could have diluted the meaning of the separate and independent groupings.

You also do not understand the mindset of the typical phone consumer. They are often not technically savvy. They plug their phone into their computer, iTunes tells them they have an update, as it has done in the past. They click OK.

It installs iOS 4. Their phone is now intolerably slow. There is no Apple provided solution to fall back to the previous OS.

Contrary to what you think, I do actually understand the mindset of the typical phone consumer-- they're one track, marketing prone sheep who will cling onto any crafted punchline or claim, irregardless of the details. They have little to no tech experience, typically aren't overly educated, and rarely question why. It sounds a little elitist, but yes, these are the people who typically fall under the ruse of marketing tactics, and are the same people who click "ok" to anything, install trojans on their own computer by accident, and then go to sites like "CleanMyPC" to further compromise their computer. I'll admit, that's a pretty bleak picture of the average end-user, and it's a bit melodramatic, but you're right; they know nothing about technology.

Had we been on a more public site, nay, in public or in person rather, your argument could hold true. However, there's a few factors that make my post entirely relevant, as follows: 1)My post is not directed at the average end user; its directed at people who post on this site, on this forum--specifically those groups who I outlined--many of which who are technically inclined and have been frequent posters for some time, 2) We're on a tech site. I hope people registered on this forum at least understand technology a little bit, and exceed the understanding of the average end-user, 3) Regardless of how tech-aware they are, people have been repeating these same categorized viewpoints for some time, and an adequate response was needed, and 4) It's itemized into groupings for a reason.

I still say its entirely pertinent given the current surroundings and previous posts to this very thread, irregardless of the average end-user, but that's just me.

As for the iOS restore functionality; I definitely agree with you there that Apple should have provided some recourse so that the end-user didn't have to jump through hoops in order to revert their OS version.

 

[Mini Me]

You complain because your 2 gen prior hardware can't run the latest software meant for the latest hardware.

Considering that brand new iPhone 3Gs (not 3G S but 3G plural) were being sold 2½ months ago I'd say yes they need to be supporting them for a while. Which is to say, they should keep providing the stability & security updates of future iOS releases, even if new features (i.e. Game Center) can't be made available due to hardware constraints.

And to add to iMAVERICKam's point, the 8GB Touch you can walk in to an Apple store and buy today is being overlooked for Game Center, being currently on sale hardly makes it one or two generations ago.

 

[objc]

Look, all you whiners out there, you are not purchasing a product, you are buying into a lifestyle. If you don't like the rules of the kingdom, leave. If you haven't paid Apple money this year, it's overdue. They're just giving you a reminder. Time to ditch your one-year-old antique and get a new one -- just like you do with cars and home appliances.

I don't see what the problem is. You can't expect Apple to support things for more than one year. No one else does, right? If you don't have $700 to drop on a new one, then you don't belong in this club, understand?

 

[darkplanets]

And to add to iMAVERICKam's point, the 8GB Touch you can walk in to an Apple store and buy today is being overlooked for Game Center, being currently on sale hardly makes it one or two generations ago.

Just because it's on sale still doesn't make it new; you could buy 3G's only a couple months ago. Would you call those new? I wouldn't. You can still buy 3G's on ebay and what not, just like you'll still be able to purchase the 8GB touch when the iPod line gets a revamp in the fall.

You clearly didn't read all of my post. Let me requote some things for you.

You complain because your 2 gen prior hardware can't run the latest software meant for the latest hardware. You cite Apple as being cheap and greedy, and that there should be no reason why you can't run it on your old hardware as if new software developments don't take advantage of the new hardware or anything, thus making it a natural prerequisite.

Then you complain when they DO allow it, because it "doesn't run well," since you know, it's meant for new hardware. And no, just because you purchased it recently doesn't make it it new. You cite them being greedy again, as if they intentionally made it run poorly on your old hardware (which coincidentally doesn't have the needed juice to run a more resource intensive OS well). Also, no one's forcing you to update your firmware.

Then you complain because features are disabled. You cite how the JB community as had them, blah blah, without realizing that Apple isn't the jailbreak community and that their implementation is far different (and less efficient). You then call Apple greedy again, without realizing that your processor and RAM is the bottleneck for the lack of new features, and that if you turned off Spotlight indexing you'd have less performance issues.

That's not enough for you? Lets look at some tech-specs, shall we?

2G iPod...
ARM11 533MHz with ARM7 core
PowerVR MBX Lite
128MB DRAM
8GB-32GB
Original iOS: 2.1.1

iP4...
Apple A4 (Cortex A8) (Same ARM7 instruction set, of course) 1GHz
PowerVR SGX 535
512MB DRAM
16-32GB
Original iOS:4.0.1

... You expect to run game-center on THAT? It's software designed for the latest hardware. We're talking 4x the memory, 2x the processor, and a much, much, much better GPU on the new hardware, versus the old. Do you see why its ludicrous to even expect such a thing, especially when you want to game on it?

 

[Mini Me]

I just don't see how a feature like Game Center is in theory so hardware demanding, it's just a game matching/leaderboard app at the end of the day (yes I know that's a bad summary).

Oh and nice post objc, harsh, but so very true

 

[stuffradio]

Yes i think it is the case. Anyway i think Game center will support 3G and iPod touch 2g. It is just a beta.

When the dev notes say it'll drop support, that means it will drop support.

Anyways, good thing I'm upgrading to the iPhone 4 so I don't have to care.

 

[inlovewithi]

No big surprise here. Apple has always been ruthless about dropping legacy support for their hardware. Nothing new.

That's why I'm selling my macbook and never buying another Apple product in my life. I've always used PCs, but wanted to try a Mac. I installed Windows 7 with boot camp, I can't stand the fact that I can't simply download the drivers that are required, simply because 1st I must buy their latest OS. Coming from the PC world, I'm so not used to that. Usually you just go to the product's website and download the drivers, simple as that. Not wait 3, 4 months to find out you need the snow leopard disc to be able to install it.

 

[Martin71]

yes, it's obviously only about the graphics hardware

This has been mentioned before, but just to emphasize it: the motivation to drop support for iPhone 3G and 2nd generation iPod Touch is obviously the graphics hardware in those devices which only supports OpenGL ES 1.1 (a fixed-function graphis pipeline; the graphics chip is the PowerVR MBX) while iPhone 3GS, 3rd generation iPod Touch, iPad, and iPhone 4 (and probably all the forthcoming iOS devices in the not too far future) all support OpenGL ES 2.0 (a programmable pipeline; variants of the PowerVR SGX chip).

Programs developed for OpenGL ES 1.1 will run on all devices, but if developers want to use any(!) of the features of OpenGL ES 2.0, they will be limited to the new devices, excluding 2nd generation iPod touch and iPhone 3G. (And developrs would have write separate code to offer two versions: one with OpenGL ES 1.1 for iPhone 3G and before, and one with OpenGL ES 2.0 for all newer devices.) Thus, from a developr's point of view, it is actually a good decision to limit the Game Center to devices with feature-wise very similar graphics hardware and dropping older hardware with very different graphics hardware.

 

[brianfast]

Here is the problem with this:

Apple is still selling the iPod touch 2g.

You can't abandon support for products you are still selling this early...

 

[NakedPaulToast]

I'm quite aware of that; I thought it was pretty clear that each section represented a different grouping based on stereotypes, especially given the "fandroid" and "fanboy" delineations, but clearly I wasn't concise enough. My apologies . I'll edit that to make it clearer; I could see where the usage of "you" and "you then" for the introductory clauses could have diluted the meaning of the separate and independent groupings.

Just pointing out that your use of "You ...", "You then ...", "You then ..." doesn't make it clear that you are talking about different groups of people. It suggests the opposite.

4) It's itemized into groupings for a reason.

What you are now calling itemized groupings, most would interpret as paragraphs. Which does nothing to suggest you were talking about different groups of people.

You've acknowledged your post was subject to misinterpretation, and clarified your position. No point in dwelling on it further.

 

[genosseinski]

iPod 2nd gen surprises me. I own a iPhone 3G and some of my friends have an iPod Touch 2nd Gen. As I was using it, it was much faster than my iPhone 3G. Apps loaded a lot quicker, feels more responsive in the whole.
Many iPod Touch users are using it for games (thats what I think), so I think Apple should have supported the iPod Touch 2nd gen as well

 

[csalm87]

What?! Now that's just *not right*, Apple!! Way to fragment some more and piss people off!

As the owner of a 2nd Gen Touch which runs iOS 4 *really* well after a full restore, I am "Not happy, Jan!!"

Maybe Apple should release a new iPod Touch actually worth upgrading to. They skimped on the last update which is why I didn't get it. iOS 4 runs pretty well on my 2nd Gen iPod Touch too.

 

[brianfast]

iPod 2nd gen surprises me. I own a iPhone 3G and some of my friends have an iPod Touch 2nd Gen. As I was using it, it was much faster than my iPhone 3G. Apps loaded a lot quicker, feels more responsive in the whole.
Many iPod Touch users are using it for games (thats what I think), so I think Apple should have supported the iPod Touch 2nd gen as well

The iPod Touch 2g IS faster than an iPhone 3G. the processor runs at a higher clockrate.

 

[tatonka]

Weird .. usally Apple decisions to leave old hardware behind make sense, because they want to sell people the new stuff.
In this case however one would think that it is rather going to be a problem for Apple then .. I mean as a dev having the chance to use OpenFeint and reach everybody or GC and reach only the latest crowd, it seems like a no-brainer to ignore Apple .. well that is until they exclude OpenFeint from the Appstore I guess ..

Well, I never understood the point of these online-my-weewee-is-bigger-than-your-weewee anyways.
T.

 

[calb]

Thank god, the iPhone 3G with iOS4 already feels like a PowerMac G3 on Tiger. It wouldn't be usable anyways, iBooks is barely useable. I miss calls all the time, because the dialog comes up very late and if you manage to slide the bar to receive the call, the caller is already in voice mail. Safari just crashed becuase I got mail (Yes, I'm writing on my 3G right now). Houston, we need RAM up here.
I wonder how long it takes until they develop MicroDIMM-DDR so we can at least extend the lifetime of our Smartphones a bit - not that Apple would built in a slot for that. I'd be already grateful for Micro-SDHC.

Worst thing is that I signed up for my iPhone in April 2009 and I'm eligible for the iPhone 4 on September 30th. I'll skip the iPhone 4 and get the 4GS/5 in June - I don't want to use software for iPhone 5GS/6 on an iPhone 4 again. Just another example for the "Get it while it's hot"-rule.

The very sad thing is that iBooks essentially looked like a rip of an app called Classics with a few extra features tagged on (like a bookstore). On a 2nd generation iPod touch (like the 8GB they are currently selling), page turns in Classics are immediate and smooth. By comparison, the page turns (and pretty much every action) in iBooks has an unacceptable delay.

Fair enough if they landed the UI design first, but they didn't. Two similar UI designs, and the Apple implementation is slower. I don't understand how Apple could get it so wrong.

I'm not clued up on the features of this game thing, but I'll be interested to see if Apple say anything to justify their limitation. By the sound of it, it doesn't seem to be resource intensive. Other similar services have managed perfectly well with the available resources... but like Apple demonstrated with iBooks, they're still missing some of the more efficient app developers.

Oh well.

 

[deggs37]

In the last 3 months Apple has gone from greatness to a company I don't think I want to support any longer. My 3Gs is not even a year old and I already feel like it will be completely outdated in just a few months. Just basing on Apples recent track record of greed. Great way to think different.

 

[MacKeeperFanMod]

So people that bought a 3G 6 months ago have no right to complain about the *reduction* in speed (not lack of), that renders their new phone unusable ? Apple has not stated they no longer support the 3G.

Apple actively encourage all users to upgrade via iTunes. There was no warning that it would be slow, there is no list of minimum system requirements. It has been oversold and a load of customers have traded a usable phone for "folders".

 

[Kevenly]

So people that bought a 3G 6 months ago have no right to complain about the *reduction* in speed (not lack of), that renders their new phone unusable ? Apple has not stated they no longer support the 3G.

Apple actively encourage all users to upgrade via iTunes. There was no warning that it would be slow, there is no list of minimum system requirements. It has been oversold and a load of customers have traded a usable phone for "folders".

I think you have spoken the point very well. Too add to it, I would point to Apple's refusal to allow users to legitimately re-install iOS 3.

Speculation on my part, but in pondering the reason for this on theory is that they promised iAd investors a presence on an amount of devices that requires an install base that cannot be achieved by the most recent hardware alone.

Pushing users to install a new iOS that is claimed to improve the device, only to have it significantly reduce its functionality, then simultaneously denying users the right to re-install the previous iOS, is hard for me not to see as intentional and purposeful.

My 2nd Gen iPod Touch at $399.99 was the best iPod Touch money could buy less than a year ago. Now there's a forum full of billionaires saying "boohoo buy a new one, whiner!"