Oh, I see. You were comparing OpenGL to Java, not Vulkan, sorry.
But at this point is it still relevant? Isn't that the engine job? Both Unity and Unreal already support Metal and even some private engines do it too.
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Game Devs Express New Fears Over Future of Mac Gaming as Apple Deprecates OpenGL and OpenCL in macOS Mojave
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Oh, I see. You were comparing OpenGL to Java, not Vulkan, sorry.
But at this point is it still relevant? Isn't that the engine job? Both Unity and Unreal already support Metal and even some private engines do it too.
Metal is more optimized for Mac. The Mac is supporting too many old libraries.The future needs optimization. Anything not optimized can run the Mac experience down. Even now , look at the garbage of Chrome. Apple should make macOS Safari only as well.
There might be a reason why no third party engine fits the bill, and writing your own in a low level API might be too expensive and suboptimal.
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OpenGL continues evolving. It provides optimization to application developers while Metal does not.
Apple want to push Metal, so stopping support for OpenGL and CL is the way Apple want to achieve this.
Safari would be great if Apple would continue to support it. I shouldn't have to update my entire operating system just to update my browser. This is why I always end up switching to Firefox. Mozilla is better at supporting the older versions of Mac OS than Apple.
Has Apple ever done anything you disagree with, because it really doesn't seem like it which makes it hard to take anything you say seriously.
Metal is already on version 2. Like I said anything to put iOS apps & games on the Mac. Ban OpenGL & OpenCL
Video software like Adobe Premiere Pro, Media Encoder, and After Effects will also be impacted by this. Adobe supports rendering and acceleration via OpenCL, Metal, and CUDA (with an NVIDIA card). Metal performance is not nearly as good as OpenCL or CUDA. Will be interesting to see how they respond moving forward.
Also will be interesting to see what GPUs are officially supported on Mac Pro 2012/2010 for Mojave. The Pro community has been using non-EFI (not "for Mac") GPUs for several years and keeping these 4,1/5,1 machines going.
Also will be interesting to see what GPUs are officially supported on Mac Pro 2012/2010 for Mojave. The Pro community has been using non-EFI (not "for Mac") GPUs for several years and keeping these 4,1/5,1 machines going.
So correct me if I'm wrong,
Apple threaten's to abandon a cross platform product that allows developers to write code on multiple platforms in lieu of a propretary solution that only benefits Macs.
While I'll not disagree that Metal may be a better performer, it seems like Apple is not doing the best to court and entice developers. Games on macOS is anemic at best and this may make it worse.
Apple threaten's to abandon a cross platform product that allows developers to write code on multiple platforms in lieu of a propretary solution that only benefits Macs.
While I'll not disagree that Metal may be a better performer, it seems like Apple is not doing the best to court and entice developers. Games on macOS is anemic at best and this may make it worse.
Cross iOS compatibility will more than make up for it.
Someone who does not care about reprogramming or programming only for Apple will choose C++ and Qt instead of Objective C and Cocoa.
You mean years down the road, that option is not only seeing the light of day next year, Most games on iOS are much less feature rich or immersive then games like fallout. Also consider these games are designed to run on tiny displays
4k youtube, we hardly knew ye.
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A far bigger concern than games are scientific applications.
Many programs used in science are developed using open-source, cross-platform technologies. OpenGL is the only viable 3D API available in these cases, even more so when we are talking about X-Windows based applications (which are more common in science than you might think). Dropping OpenGL would immediately cut off Mac users from such applications, as adopting Metal would be unfeasible, if not actually impossible.
To give you some actual reference here: I'm a chemist, and of all the chemistry related applications which in one way or the other have 3D graphics that I use, have used, or know, about 95% would become unuseable without OpenGL. Only two programs, which are actually Mac specific and aren't very wide spread, have a slim chance of being ported to Metal.
Many programs used in science are developed using open-source, cross-platform technologies. OpenGL is the only viable 3D API available in these cases, even more so when we are talking about X-Windows based applications (which are more common in science than you might think). Dropping OpenGL would immediately cut off Mac users from such applications, as adopting Metal would be unfeasible, if not actually impossible.
To give you some actual reference here: I'm a chemist, and of all the chemistry related applications which in one way or the other have 3D graphics that I use, have used, or know, about 95% would become unuseable without OpenGL. Only two programs, which are actually Mac specific and aren't very wide spread, have a slim chance of being ported to Metal.
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Apple. They want to add macOS to iOS and tvOS gaming platforms for added market share and some now hidden additional motive we'll learn about in two years time.
While I understand the prospect of easy development using common tools inside the walled garden, ditching any widely used active cross-platform standard will only alienate developers with less deep pockets (i.e. the majority of them!). Not sure that's in the interest of Apple users.
It should be pretty clear to you by now, most are referencing real games, not iOS titles. Mac gamers want access to the same AAA title PC gamers can access. Also want those games in a comparable time frame, not 2, 3, or 4 years later. You are the only one advocating some iOS/MacOS mishmash. That won't bring the AAA titles Mac gamers want. People want to be able to game on a Mac and not have to rely on Bootcamp to get decent performance.
All my apps that required PPC architecture feel your pain.
And I guess that's kinda my thing. Is this annoying? Yes. Are we going to miss some of those apps? Yes. Am I surprised that Apple is doing this? Not remotely. They've done stuff like this lots of times before. It's the main reason why I always try to explain a little of the history of how Apple has done business before I recommend anybody buy their products.
And this applies more to games, which don't typically see the same kinds of update schedules as other software. And that's the reason I still have a veritable library of old Macs sitting around, because I paid money for that OS X version of Halo, dangit, and I'm gonna play it forever!
In the 90s I remember them not having nearly the # of games as DOS/Windows, but the games that were there were higher visual quality and usually used razor sharp 640 x 480 when all the PC games putted along with giant 320 x 240 pixels
This is the relevant reply to everyone saying that OpenGL is old and on its way out. Game companies that do release games on the Mac aren’t very numerous, and given a choice between adopting a new graphics engine just for Apple or dropping Apple support most companies will probably drop Apple. Not a very big hit on their bottom line considering the market size and what it currently takes to support it, so adding to that cost isn’t going to keep game developers releasing Apple versions.
iOS gaming is on the rise to the detriment of Windows gaming. For years Microsoft had leveraged its DirectX API to keep Windows the king of gaming. Now Apple is becoming ina position to do similarly for the Mac.
I don't really like Windows, but I don't think I want Apple to be king of gaming when the are continuously finding ways to break old apps. They are breaking 32-bit apps and will likely be doing the same for OpenGL in a few years. These aren't the first times either. Before this it was the PPC to Intel switch, before that it was classic to OS X. After Apple drops OpenGL, the next move will be breaking all x86 apps in a move to ARM :/
I just want all my apps to work forever and don't want to have to worry about how long it will be until Apple breaks them.
I don't really like Windows, but I don't think I want Apple to be king of gaming when the are continuously finding ways to break old apps. They are breaking 32-bit apps and will likely be doing the same for OpenGL in a few years. These aren't the first times either. Before this it was the PPC to Intel switch, before that it was classic to OS X. After Apple drops OpenGL, the next move will be breaking all x86 apps in a move to ARM :/
I just want all my apps to work forever and don't want to have to worry about how long it will be until Apple breaks them.
OpenGL is in my opinion a bad graphics API, but it is so widely used that dropping it over something that only works on Mac will indeed hurt gaming on Mac :/ Or maybe somone will come up with a third-party graphics driver that will add OpenGL support? I wonder what will happen with source games from Valve..
Unless Apple is willing to develop or fund game companies to use Metal then all they are doing is further restricting the game providers who do release Mac versions without growing Metal’s use at all. Too small of a base and too schizophrenic with support. Even if you could prove that software would run better and be cheaper to develop most game companies won’t care. Metal is Apple only where any other graphic engine isn’t. This will be seen as further proof that Apple isn’t serious about Mac games.