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Game Devs Express New Fears Over Future of Mac Gaming as Apple Deprecates OpenGL and OpenCL in macOS Mojave

A reminder to some. This is not removing legacy old code or standards.
It is removing support for industry standards that allow cross platform coding.
Surely Apple and all its resources can sit OpenGL and OpenCL on top of Metal.
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cube said:
Now we know why it is called Mojave.
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Cause its going to be a baron landscape for Mac gaming when it arrives
 
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blackcrayon said:
In the 90s I remember them not having nearly the # of games as DOS/Windows, but the games that were there were higher visual quality and usually used razor sharp 640 x 480 when all the PC games putted along with giant 320 x 240 pixels ;)
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That's the issue, they never had the selection of a PC, and this may exacerbate the issue (other then running simple games like helix jump or other mindless iphone type games)
 
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OldSchoolMacGuy said:
Why do some think old technology should be supported forever? At some point you have to cut it loose. If you require it, then don't upgrade. Sorry kids. This is how the world works. Even Honda doesn't support your '84 Civic with new parts like fenders anymore.
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It's not old technology, it's a currently used open standard.

If Apple stopped supporting HTML, would you claim that's old tech too? o_O
 
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racerhomie said:
Apple should make macOS Safari only as well.
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I really hope not.

I use Safari 99% of the time on my Mac, but some websites do not work with Safari, so having MacOS Safari only would mean that I would have to get a non-Mac to use for some of my web browsing.

Besides, why would you want Apple to limit what you can do with your Mac? I really hope Apple doesn't make the Mac a closed OS like the iOS. If that is the case, I will most likely buy my first Windows computer after 25 years of buying Macs.
 
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Scottsoapbox said:
It's not old technology, it's a currently used open standard.

If Apple stopped supporting HTML, would you claim that's old tech too? o_O
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Well, it’s non Apple tech. That’s the same thing, isn’t it? Apple seems to be moving to a NIH (Not Invened Here) policy even when doing so gains neither the customer or the company any advantage.
 
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soupcan said:
Eff Metal. Vulkan exists to be cross-platform as one single low-level API and works on macOS as well, just not officially supported by Apple because they have to be ******s about it.
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Vulkan only replaces OpenGL, but Metal replaces OpenGL and OpenCL in a single API. So it’s a part of Apple simplifying things.
Though, if Apple supported Vulkan they could see more games come to the platform. On the other hand, now that Metal is the way to go, developers can stop waiting for Apple to maybe include Vulkan, and finally leave OpenGL behind.

Another thing is that Apple is now developing their own GPUs for iPhone, and in the future they might do it for Macs too. Metal will likely utilize the new hardware quite well without optimization. Metal is faster than OpenGL and Vulkan would likely require much more work from developers to utilize the hardware. So doubling down on Metal might be Apples best strategy to bring gaming back to the Mac sometime in the future.

In the end, new apps/games isn’t the problem, as they’ll likely be updated. The big problem is losing the ability to play older games which you may love.
 
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Yeah, but Apple is betting on developers next year being able to release games on iOS and macOS simultaneously and want them to use the same accelerated features. Also, Apple doesn't really care much about gaming on the Mac so they're willing to just consolidate things to make their own development easier. Besides, if you're actually that serious about gaming on a Mac you'll just use Bootcamp.
 
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napabar said:
You've just got to abandon the old school way of thinking how Mac games are made.
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I think the biggest stumbling block for Apple right now is that the economic model for mobile and for desktop/console is so different when it comes to software. Mobile is dominated by freemium, while desktop/console is still dominated by premium. Providing an easy way to get apps back and forth between iOS and macOS is a good start, but desktop/console game publishers currently have good reason to be skeptical of iOS helping much for revenue when it comes to premium price games.
 
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I’m a ‘gamer’ but use exclusively consoles as that’s my personal preference. If I wanted to play PC games I’d get a Windows PC - macs are not good gaming PCs and they never have been as far back as I remember.

Although I understand the desire to not alienate Devs/reduce the quantity of software I can’t see that this is a huge issue in the grand scheme of things?
 
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ratocx said:
Vulkan only replaces OpenGL, but Metal replaces OpenGL and OpenCL in a single API. So it’s a part of Apple simplifying things.
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They do not replace, they are alternatives.

It makes things simpler for Apple but more complicated for application developers.
 
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racerhomie said:
Metal is more optimized for Mac. The Mac is supporting too many old libraries.The future needs optimization. Anything not optimized can run the Mac experience down. Even now , look at the garbage of Chrome. Apple should make macOS Safari only as well.
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Thats ridiculous. If you want that sort of 'Mac' go get an iPad Pro with a keyboard.
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Scottsoapbox said:
If Apple stopped supporting HTML, would you claim that's old tech too? o_O
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A lot of people on here don't care what Apple do, they support it regardless.
 
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lilrush said:
Apple really does not care about gaming apparently. Every game I've run in metal so far has been a disaster.
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Gaming on Mac seems to be bad mainly because of two things. Developers prioritizing optimization on other platforms (due to most gamers being on PC). And the hardware become throttled by macOS due to Apple wanting Macs to be slim, energy efficient, and long lasting.

Metal 1 wasn’t that great AFAIU, but with Metal 2 released last year it has become quite good. I have yet to see a great example of Metal games on Mac. If it uses Metal 2 it is likely better than OpenGL, but DirectX is still better, but mainly because Windows doesn’t seem to throttle the hardware the same way as macOS.
In addition Metal is pretty new, so developers have less experience with it.

However using Metal instead of OpenCL in video editing software DaVinci Resolve I have increased playback performance by about 4x on my 2012 MacBook Pro in some cases. (There is a switch in the Resolve Preferences, so it’s quite easy to compare.)
 
ratocx said:
Gaming on Mac seems to be bad mainly because of two things. Developers prioritizing optimization on other platforms (due to most gamers being on PC). And the hardware become throttled by macOS due to Apple wanting Macs to be slim, energy efficient, and long lasting.
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Maybe if Apple was at OpenGL 4.5 more developers would choose it instead of DX11.
 
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bigtomato said:
Typical apple fashion take the walled garden approach, simply not worth being on a Mac any longer. Innovation cannot come from just one company people.
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You must be new to Apple? Welcome :)
And Macs were pretty much always crap for gaming anyway, so this news is neither here nor there.
 
napabar said:
You guys are forgetting that Apple is creating a unified program for developing apps on the iOS and macOS. There are many metal games on the iOS that can now easily come over to the Mac.

You've just got to abandon the old school way of thinking how Mac games are made.
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Oh, yay! An unlimited parade of endless runners, candy crush clones, and other mobile crap -- now on my desktop! Who needs real games?
 
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racerhomie said:
Metal is more optimized for Mac. The Mac is supporting too many old libraries.The future needs optimization. Anything not optimized can run the Mac experience down. Even now , look at the garbage of Chrome. Apple should make macOS Safari only as well.
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If they did that, I'd say near all Web App or Javascript developers would leave the MacOs Platform being that Safari still runs a JS engine from 2014. Most screen sharing apps via web can barely run on it without causing the fans to kick on. This would even affect those who don't develop that do conference call meetings online.
 
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jecowa said:
iOS gaming is on the rise to the detriment of Windows gaming. For years Microsoft had leveraged its DirectX API to keep Windows the king of gaming. Now Apple is becoming ina position to do similarly for the Mac.

I don't really like Windows, but I don't think I want Apple to be king of gaming when the are continuously finding ways to break old apps. They are breaking 32-bit apps and will likely be doing the same for OpenGL in a few years. These aren't the first times either. Before this it was the PPC to Intel switch, before that it was classic to OS X. After Apple drops OpenGL, the next move will be breaking all x86 apps in a move to ARM :/

I just want all my apps to work forever and don't want to have to worry about how long it will be until Apple breaks them.
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to bad apples hardware sucks and no mac has an pci-e x16 slot with room and cooling for a duel wide slot.

No an EXT box that costs as much as good video card it self to only run at pci-e X4 at best does not count.
 
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