Borderlands 2
Borderlands the Pre-Sequel
SW Knights of the old Republic
Rage
Deus Ex human revolution
Tomb Raider 2013
Metro 2033 redux
Metro last light redux
DOTA 2
Counter strike
Portal
Portal 2
Left 4 Dead
Unreal Tournament (the pre alpha one)
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Gaming on a Mac, viable?
- Thread starter MiniD3
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Borderlands 2
Borderlands the Pre-Sequel
SW Knights of the old Republic
Rage
Deus Ex human revolution
Tomb Raider 2013
Metro 2033 redux
Metro last light redux
DOTA 2
Counter strike
Portal
Portal 2
Left 4 Dead
Unreal Tournament (the pre alpha one)
I've often pondered starting Elder Scrolls Online, so with your recommendation I might just do that. 
I've never bought a game before, so it needs some thinking about...
[doublepost=1454134354][/doublepost]Thanks for that list, Irishman. I would go for a game that covers every activity, not just combat. At first glance Borderlands the Pre-Sequel would be my style. But being an older guy I will ponder a while before deciding.
I've never bought a game before, so it needs some thinking about...[doublepost=1454134354][/doublepost]Thanks for that list, Irishman. I would go for a game that covers every activity, not just combat. At first glance Borderlands the Pre-Sequel would be my style. But being an older guy I will ponder a while before deciding.
Some of the games I have played over the last couple of years in OS X include:
Thief 2014
Hitman Absolution
SOMA
Talos Principle
Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
Max Payne 3
F1 2013
GRIS Autosport
Elite Dangerous
Spec Ops The Line
Alien Isolation
Walking Dead
Deus Ex Human Revolution
Tomb Raider 2013
Metro Last Light
Rage
Borderlands 2
Batman Arkham City
XCOM Enemy Unknown
There are many others. Good enough for me!
You've listed some good stuff there imacken but it is worth noting that some of those titles are only going to run decently on very recent Macs with reasonably powerful mobile GPUs.
For example, the new Unreal Tournament in its current development form will only run at 720p with every setting it has (there are a lot too) turned all the way down in a playable fashion on my late-2013 27" iMac with Nvidia 775m GPU. The visuals are really terrible with these settings and I am not one who is very fussy about that and often play old classic games but UT looks just awful for a new game but then it is running low resolution with everything turned down just to be playable. Any Mac less than this and I can only imagine it being a slide show even turned down.
During the just past Steam Winter sale I picked up Alien Isolation, Homeworld Remastered and Shadows of Mordor among others. Those three leading titles by the best companies porting to Mac on a system that just under two calendar years ago was the newest Mac available to purchase all have to be run at substantially reduced settings to be playable. At least in those cases the games still look decent but two out of three of them I should have just gotten for XBox One later on because they'd look and run much better there on a box costing under $500. for the newest model that now includes a one TB hybrid drive for better performance and a customizable controller as well.
Rage is infamous (not just on Mac) for texture pop-in issues. It's still a good game but flawed.
The Metro Redux games are very demanding and for Nvidia owners require installation of a beta driver that while improving those adversely has affected some other games (sorry, I forget which now but I've read posts to that effect) so this is less than ideal and it took quite a while for them to be playable for some Mac owners at all.
Elite Dangerous will see no expansion for Macs due to technical issues which make it more trouble than it is worth to them apparently or perhaps even impossible. I forget which.
The Mac App store versions of the last two Borderlands games have crashing issues in El Capitan. See Aspyr support pages for more info if interested. Call of Duty Black OPS is also crashing and the most current info on that is Aspyr will issue an update IF and when they are able to fix it. Command and Conquer Generals for Mac, an App Store only release no longer works with multiplayer due to some issue with Apple's Game Center that still has not been fixed since El Capitan released. You have to log out of Game Center and you have to unplug your internet connect just to start and play the game. After waiting a very long time for the first Company of Heroes game to get skirmish mode, it finally did but now it has slowdown issues with relatively short passages of playtime and for lack of authorization to do so any longer, Aspyr will not be fixing this. The Duke Nukem Forever game due to the shutdown of Gamespy for multiplayer requires Mac users to unplug their internet to even start the game.
So, while I also enjoy making the best of things and playing what I can on my iMac I think it is important when someone asks to also be honest about things not exactly being a rose garden all the time either. With an annual OS upgrade cycle I have found longevity of games to be an issue compared to Windows or certainly any console. It is also important to point out that as a minority platform while Macs have increasingly gotten more and better games in recent years, only Linux is more limited when it comes to AAA selection. So a person asking about this should be aware of that.
My suggestion to someone wondering would be to check out what is available on Steam, GOG.com and the Mac App Store if they can, review system requirements so they know what Mac they'd need to play what they want to and find out for themselves whether or not the current situation suits them or not versus other alternatives or combinations thereof.
Don't get me wrong. I am not anti-Mac in the least but I am realistic in my expectations and in my own case it is just a part of the way I enjoy games, not the primary way that PC's used to be for me. I expect I'll be enjoying games on the Mac for years to come but I'll do so keeping the above kinds of things I mention in mind.
[doublepost=1454262463][/doublepost]
I forgot to mention above, did you pay attention to the system and particularly the GPU he has in it before putting up those lists which would be largely irrelevant to him I think? I doubt many of those games run on that and the ones that do would need to be turned way down in most cases. He has an Intel HD 4000 in that thing.
For example, the new Unreal Tournament in its current development form will only run at 720p with every setting it has (there are a lot too) turned all the way down in a playable fashion on my late-2013 27" iMac with Nvidia 775m GPU. The visuals are really terrible with these settings and I am not one who is very fussy about that and often play old classic games but UT looks just awful for a new game but then it is running low resolution with everything turned down just to be playable. Any Mac less than this and I can only imagine it being a slide show even turned down.
During the just past Steam Winter sale I picked up Alien Isolation, Homeworld Remastered and Shadows of Mordor among others. Those three leading titles by the best companies porting to Mac on a system that just under two calendar years ago was the newest Mac available to purchase all have to be run at substantially reduced settings to be playable. At least in those cases the games still look decent but two out of three of them I should have just gotten for XBox One later on because they'd look and run much better there on a box costing under $500. for the newest model that now includes a one TB hybrid drive for better performance and a customizable controller as well.
Rage is infamous (not just on Mac) for texture pop-in issues. It's still a good game but flawed.
The Metro Redux games are very demanding and for Nvidia owners require installation of a beta driver that while improving those adversely has affected some other games (sorry, I forget which now but I've read posts to that effect) so this is less than ideal and it took quite a while for them to be playable for some Mac owners at all.
Elite Dangerous will see no expansion for Macs due to technical issues which make it more trouble than it is worth to them apparently or perhaps even impossible. I forget which.
The Mac App store versions of the last two Borderlands games have crashing issues in El Capitan. See Aspyr support pages for more info if interested. Call of Duty Black OPS is also crashing and the most current info on that is Aspyr will issue an update IF and when they are able to fix it. Command and Conquer Generals for Mac, an App Store only release no longer works with multiplayer due to some issue with Apple's Game Center that still has not been fixed since El Capitan released. You have to log out of Game Center and you have to unplug your internet connect just to start and play the game. After waiting a very long time for the first Company of Heroes game to get skirmish mode, it finally did but now it has slowdown issues with relatively short passages of playtime and for lack of authorization to do so any longer, Aspyr will not be fixing this. The Duke Nukem Forever game due to the shutdown of Gamespy for multiplayer requires Mac users to unplug their internet to even start the game.
So, while I also enjoy making the best of things and playing what I can on my iMac I think it is important when someone asks to also be honest about things not exactly being a rose garden all the time either. With an annual OS upgrade cycle I have found longevity of games to be an issue compared to Windows or certainly any console. It is also important to point out that as a minority platform while Macs have increasingly gotten more and better games in recent years, only Linux is more limited when it comes to AAA selection. So a person asking about this should be aware of that.
My suggestion to someone wondering would be to check out what is available on Steam, GOG.com and the Mac App Store if they can, review system requirements so they know what Mac they'd need to play what they want to and find out for themselves whether or not the current situation suits them or not versus other alternatives or combinations thereof.
Don't get me wrong. I am not anti-Mac in the least but I am realistic in my expectations and in my own case it is just a part of the way I enjoy games, not the primary way that PC's used to be for me. I expect I'll be enjoying games on the Mac for years to come but I'll do so keeping the above kinds of things I mention in mind.
[doublepost=1454262463][/doublepost]
I forgot to mention above, did you pay attention to the system and particularly the GPU he has in it before putting up those lists which would be largely irrelevant to him I think? I doubt many of those games run on that and the ones that do would need to be turned way down in most cases. He has an Intel HD 4000 in that thing.
I have no problem finding games on the Mac. As a recent PC to Mac switcher, over 60% of my Steam library has Mac versions of the games. That's 167 games, just in my Steam library, I can still play on the Mac.
I'm currently enjoying Crashlands which just came out.. though I still need to play Pillars of Eternity that I never did get around to.
I'm currently enjoying Crashlands which just came out.. though I still need to play Pillars of Eternity that I never did get around to.
I still remember the time when games were always free. Of course the quality of games, both in storylines and graphics have improved beyond my wildest dreams. But being retired now for many years, costs is an issue for me, especially with the dollar being so strong.
I played Drakensang online for a while but stopped, as it is purely about hack-and-slay, and despite being free we were pestered with invitations to buy, some of which involved logging out or crashing out just to say no. Pillars of Eternity looks promising but at 45 dollars I would like a free trial period, even just a day or two, before buying. I don't think that is too much to ask.
I played Drakensang online for a while but stopped, as it is purely about hack-and-slay, and despite being free we were pestered with invitations to buy, some of which involved logging out or crashing out just to say no. Pillars of Eternity looks promising but at 45 dollars I would like a free trial period, even just a day or two, before buying. I don't think that is too much to ask.
I would encourage you to also check into the HD remakes of Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2 and Icewind Dale on the Mac App Store which each include their expansions and offer a great deal of wonderful content. Each one is normally priced at 20 US dollars and offers many hours of entertainment just for one play through and given potential party compositions they offer an enormous amount of replay value as well. The graphics aren't as fancy as Pillars of Eternity which is something of a spiritual successor to these games but I think they still look pretty good myself. I've enjoyed the music in them a lot too. Perhaps you are already familiar with these games but if not I would highly recommend checking into them. I'm not aware of any free demos but I think trying the first Baldur's Gate game initially is something I could safely recommend to you and think you would enjoy based on the games you've mentioned here previously playing. These are all single player games by the way although it is possible to play at least the Baldur's Gate games with small groups of other people if desired. In my opinion though the single player is where they really shine and it's safe to say this is how most people have played them over the years since the originals first came out.
I'm not sure but if you check system requirements where these are not too demanding hopefully they should work just fine with your Mac. If decide to give the first game a try you can be pretty certain that you'll enjoy the others. They are working on another one too, an expansion or maybe it will be a standalone expansion that is set in the time period between Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 and will have its own new story. They all use the same game engine so once you've played one, you already know how the others work overall. Familiarizing yourself with the old D&D rules is not absolutely required but would add to your enjoyment of the games in my opinion. The company that makes them (Overhaul games) has forums also where you can ask questions, etc. and various information about them is abundant on the internet given their popularity for so long.
You can visit here for more information about the games:
http://www.baldursgate.com
+1 for the Baldur's Gate I & II and Icewind Dale games. Mind, also, that both Baldur's Gate games focus more on the characters and the storyline, while Icewind Dale gives more focus on the battles. Regardless, all of them are the epitome of cRPGs.
Steam has literally hundreds of fantastic games that run on a Mac. Of course some will demand a maxed out system (no different to Windows) but there's plenty that don't. Plant of older games will run great on a new iMac or Macbook and just because a game is a year or two old doesn't mean it's no good.
I'm currently playing X rebirth, from Steam (far too much actually) on a late 2013 27" iMac with a 3.2 GHz i5 processor, 24 Gb RAM and a 755M video card with 1GB. With the exception of the RAM. this is barely inside the requirements but it runs great and looks fantastic. Tomb Raider from app store played superbly on my MacBook Pro. Ok, the fans run flat out but why does that matter? I've paid a lot of money for a powerful computer and it's nice to see it using that power!
Like Paulk, I do wish more games had a trial period, not only to see that it works ok but also to see if you actually enjoy it. I downloaded Homeworld Remastered and found it awful. Rather puzzling giving how much some people rave about it! Fortunately I was able to get a refund.
I'm currently playing X rebirth, from Steam (far too much actually
) on a late 2013 27" iMac with a 3.2 GHz i5 processor, 24 Gb RAM and a 755M video card with 1GB. With the exception of the RAM. this is barely inside the requirements but it runs great and looks fantastic. Tomb Raider from app store played superbly on my MacBook Pro. Ok, the fans run flat out but why does that matter? I've paid a lot of money for a powerful computer and it's nice to see it using that power!Like Paulk, I do wish more games had a trial period, not only to see that it works ok but also to see if you actually enjoy it. I downloaded Homeworld Remastered and found it awful. Rather puzzling giving how much some people rave about it! Fortunately I was able to get a refund.
Steam has literally hundreds of fantastic games that run on a Mac. Of course some will demand a maxed out system (no different to Windows) but there's plenty that don't. Plant of older games will run great on a new iMac or Macbook and just because a game is a year or two old doesn't mean it's no good.
I'm currently playing X rebirth, from Steam (far too much actually
Like Paulk, I do wish more games had a trial period, not only to see that it works ok but also to see if you actually enjoy it. I downloaded Homeworld Remastered and found it awful. Rather puzzling giving how much some people rave about it! Fortunately I was able to get a refund.
I would not argue what you saying but in the context of this thread, the original question was about making a choice for a grandson who is a gamer. In that context, the choice is immediately clear as far as a personal computer goes. Windows offers the most titles that a young person is going to want access to, the AAA all his friends will be into, the most current Call of Duty games, AAA action games, etc. are likely to be important to him the odds are. I know with my two nephews that is certainly the case. Those two are all about console gaming primarily with only one even dabbling in Windows PC gaming. The selection available for Mac while not bad for some of us is still lacking simply because of market share. There's no getting around that. So that's how we got into the whole idea of limitations with the Mac. There absolutely are limitations and to answer that guy's question honestly that needed to be said.
I can easily see the large amount of games for Mac being plenty to keep some folks occupied and happy but a kid into gaming probably would not be among them. This big kid isn't satisfied either which is why I like console too even while I do like computer gaming also.
I agree entirely with Dirtyharry50, Macs come a poor second in gaming.
Get a PC.
The answer to your question is, yes, you can game on a Mac. There's plenty of games on the mac (even some of the more popular ones on Steam).
BUT
Gaming on Mac will always be 2nd tier status.
What games does he want to play? Fallout 4? Overwatch? Paragon? Halo Wars 2?
Those won't be coming to the Mac and honestly boot camping/using parallels is a mediocre experience compared to just building your own rig. Does not cost $1000+.
Asking Mac gamers here is honestly a terrible idea. I reckon most are older and could give less than two ***** about playing the newest games or having their fans run super loud on their MacBooks.
Will just say this. If I were a kid, I would probably want a PC for gaming.
Macs are amazing at some stuff, they are not the best for others.
The answer to your question is, yes, you can game on a Mac. There's plenty of games on the mac (even some of the more popular ones on Steam).
BUT
Gaming on Mac will always be 2nd tier status.
What games does he want to play? Fallout 4? Overwatch? Paragon? Halo Wars 2?
Those won't be coming to the Mac and honestly boot camping/using parallels is a mediocre experience compared to just building your own rig. Does not cost $1000+.
Asking Mac gamers here is honestly a terrible idea. I reckon most are older and could give less than two ***** about playing the newest games or having their fans run super loud on their MacBooks.
Will just say this. If I were a kid, I would probably want a PC for gaming.
Macs are amazing at some stuff, they are not the best for others.
I Think you've just described me perfectly! I'm in my 50's, am not bothered if a game is 6 months old or even a year or two old and I certainly don't worry about what my fans are up to. I still have a Windows PC. It doesn't get used much and its fans drive me mad as they're noisy all the while (I built it myself so that'll be my fault!).
On the plus side, I don't rush out and spend £400 on a new graphics card every year just to get a few more fps or the ability to go to 16X anti-aliasing and add a few extra shadow effects that most youngsters never even notice as usually they've spent months eagerly awaiting a new release only to finish it in one mad frenzy during a sleepless pizza and Red Bull fuelled weekend. I think I've just described my son.
But yes, if I was a kid I'd want a PC too.
On the plus side, I don't rush out and spend £400 on a new graphics card every year just to get a few more fps or the ability to go to 16X anti-aliasing and add a few extra shadow effects that most youngsters never even notice as usually they've spent months eagerly awaiting a new release only to finish it in one mad frenzy during a sleepless pizza and Red Bull fuelled weekend. I think I've just described my son
.But yes, if I was a kid I'd want a PC too.
I Think you've just described me perfectly! I'm in my 50's, am not bothered if a game is 6 months old or even a year or two old and I certainly don't worry about what my fans are up to. I still have a Windows PC. It doesn't get used much and its fans drive me mad as they're noisy all the while (I built it myself so that'll be my fault!).
On the plus side, I don't rush out and spend £400 on a new graphics card every year just to get a few more fps or the ability to go to 16X anti-aliasing and add a few extra shadow effects that most youngsters never even notice as usually they've spent months eagerly awaiting a new release only to finish it in one mad frenzy during a sleepless pizza and Red Bull fuelled weekend. I think I've just described my son
But yes, if I was a kid I'd want a PC too.
For me, I'm 46, been gaming since the beginning of home console gaming in the 70s.
I also want the best parts of the PC gaming experience, but I want it on OS X (my platform of choice).
What's wrong with that?
Honestly, PC/Mac are quickly becoming my least "go to" gaming platform with all the bug ridden, poorly optimized games released over the past few years.
I've wasted plenty of money on games that were complete crap, yet hyped to high heaven pre-launch.
My Mac blows the doors off any Windows PC for functionality and productivity. But for gaming, I'm going to leave it to a dedicated gaming console in the future.
I've wasted plenty of money on games that were complete crap, yet hyped to high heaven pre-launch.
My Mac blows the doors off any Windows PC for functionality and productivity. But for gaming, I'm going to leave it to a dedicated gaming console in the future.
Umm, that's just a trend in gaming overall.
Buying a gaming console in the future is basically going backwards in time. Consoles and PCs are getting closer and closer alike.
I Think you've just described me perfectly! I'm in my 50's, am not bothered if a game is 6 months old or even a year or two old and I certainly don't worry about what my fans are up to. I still have a Windows PC. It doesn't get used much and its fans drive me mad as they're noisy all the while (I built it myself so that'll be my fault!).
On the plus side, I don't rush out and spend £400 on a new graphics card every year just to get a few more fps or the ability to go to 16X anti-aliasing and add a few extra shadow effects that most youngsters never even notice as usually they've spent months eagerly awaiting a new release only to finish it in one mad frenzy during a sleepless pizza and Red Bull fuelled weekend. I think I've just described my son
But yes, if I was a kid I'd want a PC too.
If gaming is the primary focus-> PC. If the MacOS takes priority for productivity, with gaming secondary-> Mac with Bootcamp or MBA + PC if that's affordable.
Nothing at all.For me, I'm 46, been gaming since the beginning of home console gaming in the 70s.
I also want the best parts of the PC gaming experience, but I want it on OS X (my platform of choice).
What's wrong with that?
100% with you on Mac productivity. I have a hard time with commitment to console gaming (own a Xbox 360 that I only touch when the grandkids are over). I prefer the PC, feel that PC based games are more full bodied, believing I have more control over the environment, more options, but acknowledge consoles are less expensive.
I am a huge Mac fan, but gaming on the Mac is only good for casual gamers. A real gamer needs a computer he can modify, by adding or replacing graphics cards, cpu, etc. In addition support for graphics cards is much better in the Windows world. I am not a friend of Windows, but for serious gaming it cannot be avoided. To me it's pretty much the only thing it's good for, but I am sure other people strongly disagree
I play Fallout 4 on an iMac 27 5K (i5 processor) on High settings running windows 10 with no problems.
If you want to go for a less costly introduction, go with any of the old Infinity Engine games: Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Planescape: Torment, and Icewind Dale. They can all be had for pretty cheap these days.
Pillars of Eternity is basically a souped up, fancier version of those older, but still great games, made mostly by the same group of people.
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Pillars of Eternity plays fantastic on my old Mac Pro, and there's a good reason it has a high metacritic score.
The reality is certain games play better on certain gaming platforms.
FPS games are better suited for PC's where mouse/keyboard just work better than a controller for speed and accuracy. Party games are better suited for consoles when you need multiple players on one device. MMO's are better suited for PCs where you need lots of buttons for controls. Platformers have always played better on consoles.
So it really comes down to what your favorite gaming style is, and choose the right platform for your needs.
The reality is certain games play better on certain gaming platforms.
FPS games are better suited for PC's where mouse/keyboard just work better than a controller for speed and accuracy. Party games are better suited for consoles when you need multiple players on one device. MMO's are better suited for PCs where you need lots of buttons for controls. Platformers have always played better on consoles.
So it really comes down to what your favorite gaming style is, and choose the right platform for your needs.
I am a huge Mac fan, but gaming on the Mac is only good for casual gamers. A real gamer needs a computer he can modify, by adding or replacing graphics cards, cpu, etc. In addition support for graphics cards is much better in the Windows world. I am not a friend of Windows, but for serious gaming it cannot be avoided. To me it's pretty much the only thing it's good for, but I am sure other people strongly disagree
WARNING!!! INCOMING WALL OF TEXT!!! Now that I have warned you, please don't hate me or become upset if you hate these. Just skip it and we can both live happily ever after!
I understand what you mean in a sense but the term real gamer in this context tends to put people off as hardware does not define whether somebody is seriously into enjoying video games in some fashion or not. There are all kinds of "real" gamers playing games on all kinds of different hardware. A lot of them even like more than one platform to play games on.
Somebody who is seriously into say, Paradox grand strategy titles is certainly a real gamer but they don't need the PC system you describe at all. Many Macs for example would serve them just fine for that purpose along with all the other uses they have for them.
Anyone who enjoys playing video games in some fashion is a real gamer.
The notion of some sort of fantasy caste system in which there are real gamers, serious gamers and heading down to the bottom of the hierarchy, lowly casuals is silly and has no basis in reality. That whole notion is created by people for their own purposes.
You can certainly be seriously into playing games outside of the definition you provided above. My brother-in-law plays games a lot. He likes the PS4, is a huge Final Fantasy fan and also really likes playing various games on his iPad to relax. One of my nephews very often plays leading AAA titles on his own PS4 while the other one does so on his XBox One. That one does some PC gaming too but not much. All three of those guys are pretty hardcore about gaming and spend a lot of time on it. Not one of them wastes time screwing around working on hardware. They spend less money on hardware too but I've seen them playing on all three options mentioned and they look, sound and play just great. One of them is all about the most recent Need for Speed title lately and the other is lost in Fallout 4. How is there anything not real about that? They don't mess around buying new video cards on some schedule, installing them into a system, installing frequent driver updates to fix bugs. They do not need to waste gaming time on that.
I like console myself. I also like my Mac for the time being but I am losing interest in dealing with the issues and time wasting inherent in desktop computer based gaming when other options free me from that and offer me a better user experience out of the box and long term as well with tons of content including tons of AAA content some of which the PC never sees or if it does see it, the port is awful (Arkham Knight anyone?) and best of all the hardware is substantially less expensive while at the same time offering a longer life. What is not to love? That's plenty real enough for me. It's also plenty real enough for many millions of other "real" gamers.
Remember I told you this years from now: PC gaming as you know it today, Steam and all, is doomed and going away. Desktop computers in the consumer market as you know them now, gaming rigs and all, are going away. Yes, it's going to be years but that is the what the future holds according to my crystal ball and for some reason I've been making accurate calls on stuff like this going back to early MS-DOS and early IBM clone PCs with hercules cards in them. When you step back and look at trends casting aside your own emotions, personal investment in what you like, etc. and look at both historic trends and what is happening around you presently, keeping up on tech news, it's not so hard to see where things are going over time in advance even if nobody can possibly be entirely accurate. People have a tendency to believe what they want to, what works well for them even in the face of evidence to the contrary.
I think Apple does not care a lot about desktop computer gaming not because they are out to lunch, behind the times or whatever in this regard. I think rather it is because they are a forward looking company that leads not follows. I think it is because they already see the writing on the wall and act accordingly. It makes sense for them to pretty much ignore desktop computer gaming in a world where mobile gaming is already the number one money maker out of all forms of gaming. That's reality. Why should Apple invest in tech that is on the way out in the future when they can focus on an important and highly profitable part of what will replace it? Apple has long ceased to be a computer company. They are an electronics company now.
Have you noticed that even genres like strategy and MMOs are making their way to consoles in increasing numbers? I think that in its own way is also telling. So is Steam creating a console with marketing about how they only want to enhance offerings when in reality I think Gabe sees what is coming also and is trying to prepare for that world. Perhaps he will succeed too. We shall see.
Sometimes stuff gets lost in text so please understand I don't mean to sound arrogant or like I think I just know everything. I don't and I know that. I'm well aware this could take longer than I think it will, something unexpected could happen, I might be wrong, etc. but given everything happening today I really believe that what I am saying here will come to pass in the future.
Tablets with keyboards are now starting to compete with notebook computers. Again, these offer great value being less expensive while still offering the primary functionality of a computer and leaving the "serious" gaming to devices built especially for that not that these cannot do some forms of gaming too. It just isn't going to be what we think of as AAA anytime soon if ever. Desktop PC sales have been hurting for years now as consumers move to other options because so many of them do not need an antiquated, expensive, bulky, ugly, stationary computer when modern replacements including even their smart phones for a lot of people give them everything they care about. This affects the personal computer market and as such ultimately will effect the personal computer gaming market. When gaming is the only thing people care about doing on them anymore, the cost of them will be the final nail in the coffin because they just cannot compete with consoles and tablets and various hand held gaming devices. There won't be enough market to sustain them.
You see, earlier on PC gaming had it easier in a world where consumer PCs made more sense for lack of less expensive alternatives and as options for many to do work tasks at home. Increasingly though, this is possible without needing a PC or a Mac. For a growing number of uses a powerful tablet such as the new iPad Pro with an optional keyboard can easily satisfy the computing needs of many for half of what say, a MacBook Air would cost them assuming both are maxed out and have AppleCare. Similar comparisons can easily be made in the PC world and with Windows or Android tablet/smartphone options. I noticed at the Super Bowl there were guys in the media covering the game at a desk using Microsoft's Surface Pros rather than desktops or notebooks. When you see this kind of adoption of new tech happening it is indicative also of where things are going.
Now, none of that computing stuff made much mention of gaming but that is because specialized options at lower costs are what is happening and will I think continue to happen until they become the norm and the way we used to do things and what we use to use to do them with goes away. I think the desktop computer gaming market will gradually shrink until it becomes irrelevant and loses support myself. Again, I think that is exactly what the Steam OS and Steam machines are all about - taking stock of what is already happening and responding to it. The very first introduction of iOS gaming to television with the first simple iteration of this on Apple TV is another sign. The huge popularity of consoles it already nothing new at all. The poor quality of ports to PC with failures like Arkham Knight which got canceled for Macs and I think Linux also altogether is telling. Keep in mind a lot of the PC AAA is console ports. It is interesting how frequently now we see PC gamers using and wanting controller support as well. For these people, the shift to a dedicated console if they don't already use one will be easy. Clearly, they already like using a controller.
Things change. Nothing stays the same. I don't know why people think PC gaming is something that will last forever. Desktop PCs are really crude computers when you think about it in contrast to the ever evolving designs of competing computers. Once upon a time, mini computers by companies like Wang and DEC and Honeywell became very popular and were so modern compared to the huge monsters they replaced. Fast forward to today, PCs are large, ugly boxes that are being replaced. In light of this, I find it hard to believe that gaming on a doomed platform has any real long term future.
In any event, real gamers are people who play games and have fun with them. There is no caste system except for in the imaginations of those who place themselves at the top of this imaginary system. It's a good thing too because if being a real gamer required buying and changing video cards in a metal box on a regular basis, gaming would die off with those metal boxes. That would be terrible. Fortunately, that isn't happening.
WARNING!!! INCOMING WALL OF TEXT!!! Now that I have warned you, please don't hate me or become upset if you hate these. Just skip it and we can both live happily ever after!
I understand what you mean in a sense but the term real gamer in this context tends to put people off as hardware does not define whether somebody is seriously into enjoying video games in some fashion or not. There are all kinds of "real" gamers playing games on all kinds of different hardware. A lot of them even like more than one platform to play games on.
Somebody who is seriously into say, Paradox grand strategy titles is certainly a real gamer but they don't need the PC system you describe at all. Many Macs for example would serve them just fine for that purpose along with all the other uses they have for them.
Anyone who enjoys playing video games in some fashion is a real gamer.
The notion of some sort of fantasy caste system in which there are real gamers, serious gamers and heading down to the bottom of the hierarchy, lowly casuals is silly and has no basis in reality. That whole notion is created by people for their own purposes.
You can certainly be seriously into playing games outside of the definition you provided above. My brother-in-law plays games a lot. He likes the PS4, is a huge Final Fantasy fan and also really likes playing various games on his iPad to relax. One of my nephews very often plays leading AAA titles on his own PS4 while the other one does so on his XBox One. That one does some PC gaming too but not much. All three of those guys are pretty hardcore about gaming and spend a lot of time on it. Not one of them wastes time screwing around working on hardware. They spend less money on hardware too but I've seen them playing on all three options mentioned and they look, sound and play just great. One of them is all about the most recent Need for Speed title lately and the other is lost in Fallout 4. How is there anything not real about that? They don't mess around buying new video cards on some schedule, installing them into a system, installing frequent driver updates to fix bugs. They do not need to waste gaming time on that.
I like console myself. I also like my Mac for the time being but I am losing interest in dealing with the issues and time wasting inherent in desktop computer based gaming when other options free me from that and offer me a better user experience out of the box and long term as well with tons of content including tons of AAA content some of which the PC never sees or if it does see it, the port is awful (Arkham Knight anyone?) and best of all the hardware is substantially less expensive while at the same time offering a longer life. What is not to love? That's plenty real enough for me. It's also plenty real enough for many millions of other "real" gamers.
Remember I told you this years from now: PC gaming as you know it today, Steam and all, is doomed and going away. Desktop computers in the consumer market as you know them now, gaming rigs and all, are going away. Yes, it's going to be years but that is the what the future holds according to my crystal ball and for some reason I've been making accurate calls on stuff like this going back to early MS-DOS and early IBM clone PCs with hercules cards in them. When you step back and look at trends casting aside your own emotions, personal investment in what you like, etc. and look at both historic trends and what is happening around you presently, keeping up on tech news, it's not so hard to see where things are going over time in advance even if nobody can possibly be entirely accurate. People have a tendency to believe what they want to, what works well for them even in the face of evidence to the contrary.
I think Apple does not care a lot about desktop computer gaming not because they are out to lunch, behind the times or whatever in this regard. I think rather it is because they are a forward looking company that leads not follows. I think it is because they already see the writing on the wall and act accordingly. It makes sense for them to pretty much ignore desktop computer gaming in a world where mobile gaming is already the number one money maker out of all forms of gaming. That's reality. Why should Apple invest in tech that is on the way out in the future when they can focus on an important and highly profitable part of what will replace it? Apple has long ceased to be a computer company. They are an electronics company now.
Have you noticed that even genres like strategy and MMOs are making their way to consoles in increasing numbers? I think that in its own way is also telling. So is Steam creating a console with marketing about how they only want to enhance offerings when in reality I think Gabe sees what is coming also and is trying to prepare for that world. Perhaps he will succeed too. We shall see.
Sometimes stuff gets lost in text so please understand I don't mean to sound arrogant or like I think I just know everything. I don't and I know that. I'm well aware this could take longer than I think it will, something unexpected could happen, I might be wrong, etc. but given everything happening today I really believe that what I am saying here will come to pass in the future.
Tablets with keyboards are now starting to compete with notebook computers. Again, these offer great value being less expensive while still offering the primary functionality of a computer and leaving the "serious" gaming to devices built especially for that not that these cannot do some forms of gaming too. It just isn't going to be what we think of as AAA anytime soon if ever. Desktop PC sales have been hurting for years now as consumers move to other options because so many of them do not need an antiquated, expensive, bulky, ugly, stationary computer when modern replacements including even their smart phones for a lot of people give them everything they care about. This affects the personal computer market and as such ultimately will effect the personal computer gaming market. When gaming is the only thing people care about doing on them anymore, the cost of them will be the final nail in the coffin because they just cannot compete with consoles and tablets and various hand held gaming devices. There won't be enough market to sustain them.
You see, earlier on PC gaming had it easier in a world where consumer PCs made more sense for lack of less expensive alternatives and as options for many to do work tasks at home. Increasingly though, this is possible without needing a PC or a Mac. For a growing number of uses a powerful tablet such as the new iPad Pro with an optional keyboard can easily satisfy the computing needs of many for half of what say, a MacBook Air would cost them assuming both are maxed out and have AppleCare. Similar comparisons can easily be made in the PC world and with Windows or Android tablet/smartphone options. I noticed at the Super Bowl there were guys in the media covering the game at a desk using Microsoft's Surface Pros rather than desktops or notebooks. When you see this kind of adoption of new tech happening it is indicative also of where things are going.
Now, none of that computing stuff made much mention of gaming but that is because specialized options at lower costs are what is happening and will I think continue to happen until they become the norm and the way we used to do things and what we use to use to do them with goes away. I think the desktop computer gaming market will gradually shrink until it becomes irrelevant and loses support myself. Again, I think that is exactly what the Steam OS and Steam machines are all about - taking stock of what is already happening and responding to it. The very first introduction of iOS gaming to television with the first simple iteration of this on Apple TV is another sign. The huge popularity of consoles it already nothing new at all. The poor quality of ports to PC with failures like Arkham Knight which got canceled for Macs and I think Linux also altogether is telling. Keep in mind a lot of the PC AAA is console ports. It is interesting how frequently now we see PC gamers using and wanting controller support as well. For these people, the shift to a dedicated console if they don't already use one will be easy. Clearly, they already like using a controller.
Things change. Nothing stays the same. I don't know why people think PC gaming is something that will last forever. Desktop PCs are really crude computers when you think about it in contrast to the ever evolving designs of competing computers. Once upon a time, mini computers by companies like Wang and DEC and Honeywell became very popular and were so modern compared to the huge monsters they replaced. Fast forward to today, PCs are large, ugly boxes that are being replaced. In light of this, I find it hard to believe that gaming on a doomed platform has any real long term future.
In any event, real gamers are people who play games and have fun with them. There is no caste system except for in the imaginations of those who place themselves at the top of this imaginary system. It's a good thing too because if being a real gamer required buying and changing video cards in a metal box on a regular basis, gaming would die off with those metal boxes. That would be terrible. Fortunately, that isn't happening.
I always enjoy a good wall of text and you make good reads.
Well, here's my 2 cents for the interesting topics you bring on the table. Just a different point of view, for thoughts.
The future of gaming is anyone's guess, of course. However, gaming itself was and still is (and will be) a driving factor for the extinction or the sustainability of any platform. History has proved that in order for something to "die", the new one has to be able to replace it completely. For many years (present included) consoles are struggling to be on par with PCs, regarding the graphics evolution. In fact, the very same idea behind a gaming console (no ability for upgrade, a closed ecosystem) brings every newly launched console on 2nd place, only a few weeks after its release, behind PCs. There are many titles ported from consoles to PCs, and some of these ports are poorly implemented, that's true. But most of the times, this is only regarding the controls (e.g. the transition from the said console's controller to a keyboard/mouse). Almost in every situation, though, the PC port looks better. And time passing only widens this gap. E.g. nvidia is ready to release their next gpu series (surely ati will do the same) that will do wonders along with dx12. This will definitely wide the gap with the today's top consoles once more. The gap will close a bit with the next gen consoles (whatever and whenever that might be), and so on. A console is aging by the first day it is launched. A PC is not. A new gpu and boom, it's back on top.
One cannot hope to outlive Dorian Gray
I remember a legendary computer, the best computer I've ever known and owned in the history of IT, the Amiga. This computer was the epitome of graphics and sound. Gaming consoles launched and disappeared, other computers also tried to compete with it (poor Atari ST...), PCs emerged out of nowhere with - eventually - much faster CPUs, with 4 times the speed of Amiga, multiple times the RAM. But...everyone looked like a joke when compared to Amiga. What was the usurper that finally sent Amiga to history ? VGA graphics. You see, Amiga was a closed system with static specs and time was counting against it. On the other hand, the poorly equipped PCs having a hercules card with 2 colors, then a CGA with 4 and an EGA with 16, eventually got the VGA with 256, and graphics (e.g. games) with unmatched visuals. And then the game was over (unintentional pun here).
Apple's lack of support for desktop gaming, imho, is not due to their strategic decision to only invest in future or because of their hesitation to invest on a dying market. A serious desktop gaming support would dictate upgrade-ability and Apple is obsessively against that, more and more with every new computer they launch. Macs have become "Amigas", but in an era where everything moves and evolves way faster. Besides, profit seems to take an ever-growing percent as a factor to Apple's decisions, especially during the last years. iOS and mobile computing/gaming is much more profitable and - still - forgives the closed, locked ecosystems. In Apple's eyes, this is heaven.
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