Garmin 965 and Ultra 2 Trail Runner update

[dallison13]

I have been going back and forth between a Garmin 965 and an AWU2 since the U2 came out (used an AWU1 before that).
I am mostly a trail runner in the Pacific NW (Portland) and am currently training for a 50K in June. I run a lot of trail miles.
I have always been an Apple Watch user and apologist, although I feel like the limitations for running (and other sports) are incredibly frustrating. I won't get into all the reasons but over the years, the watches and ecosystems have gotten closer and my reasons have become more nitpicks, although still relevant. Im also older and just dont care about some of the things that I used to.

But after using the Garmin 965 (a great watch) since last June, something is compelling me back to the Ultra full time.

1. I'm tired of wearing 2 watches. First world problems I know, but I just am. The Garmin is only on for running, but I dislike using mulitple platforms, syncing w RunGap, and using my AW for only music.
2. GPS and tracking are basically the same. There is not a significant difference that I can tell after over a thousand miles of testing on roads and trails.
3. Battery life? Yes, Garmin wins. But not enough to keep me there. This is a minor annoyance only for me, as the U2's battery lasts long enough for all of my adventures and then some. Charging isn't an issue for me personally.
4. Mapping. OH MY GOD here we go...... It was the single reason I moved over to the Garmin and honestly, it has failed me miserably. Something changed when Garmin updated the 965, and even on the Garmin forums, people complain about the mapping. It has not been a great experience. The lack of zooming to where you are is atrocious. I don't know why they broke that feature, but that, coupled with the lack of a scroll button makes the main advantage (for me) less and less attractive. I use Footpath on the AWU2 and although it is not native, it is leaps and bounds better than my Garmin experience over the last 8 months. I hope that Apple integrates some of these features into running and mapping in ios18. Please!
   5. Recovery + Coaching - The recovery, analytics and coaching features on the Garmin are well documented, and while nice, have lost a bit of their luster with me. I get that information on my AWU2 via Athlytic or Healthfit, and it's mostly fine. I also subscribe to Strava and most of the data is there and is ok with me. I have used the Daily Suggested Workouts with the Garmin, and while they are good, I have other resources that I can use when training. I am hoping that Apple integrates some AI coaching options in the next version of WatchOS.
5. I wanted the Garmin because all this stuff was baked in and I didn't have to go looking for apps to fill the gaps. But I have realized over time that the apps aren't that bad and sometimes leave me with a better experience.

There are loads of other stuff to list, and I'm not planning on getting RID of the Garmin, just going back to the AWU2 full time for now. Of course, when WWDC lands, maybe I will be so disappointed that it will send me back into Garmin's arms again. Who knows.

Any of you have similar thoughts?

 

[Glenner05]

Hi, I’m experiencing the exact same thing. Have an ultra 1 and an Epix pro, and can’t decide which device to go for full time. Currently 90% ultra, but sometimes the Epix draws me back with its onboard recovery metrics and body battery… I also have 3th party apps for that on the ultra, like Athlytic and WOD. But sometimes I’m tired to always pay for this stuff.

I really want the ultra to be my only device, because whenever i go Epix for a while, I start missing the smart features and LTE connectivity of the ultra😂

You mentioned other sources for daily training suggestions , can i asked which sources? I really want something similar on my ultra without paying too much extra..

 

[kitenski]

For AW mapping just buy this app, it’s awesome I’ve used it for 68 km walk, running, skiing and the maps are great inc routing

http://workoutdoors.net/

 

[kitenski]

You mentioned other sources for daily training suggestions , can i asked which sources? I really want something similar on my ultra without paying too much extra..

Take a look at this https://trainingtodayapp.com/

 

[Monkswhiskers]

I do find the Training Today app great as general trend indicator. I do wonder how much credence can be given to all the Firstbeat style metrics, there are so many it's almost as if it is marketing. lol.

 

[BSG75]

Hi, I’m experiencing the exact same thing. Have an ultra 1 and an Epix pro, and can’t decide which device to go for full time. Currently 90% ultra, but sometimes the Epix draws me back with its onboard recovery metrics and body battery… I also have 3th party apps for that on the ultra, like Athlytic and WOD. But sometimes I’m tired to always pay for this stuff.

I really want the ultra to be my only device, because whenever i go Epix for a while, I start missing the smart features and LTE connectivity of the ultra😂

You mentioned other sources for daily training suggestions , can i asked which sources? I really want something similar on my ultra without paying too much extra..

I also have the Ultra and Epix, but my use percentage is the opposite of yours, 90% Epix and 10% Ultra. IMO, the Epix is the superior fitness watch and the Ultra (or any Apple Watch) is the superior smart watch. I kind of like not having to download and pay for third party apps for fitness tracking on the Epix. Sometimes, I wish the Epix had LTE connectivity, but I really don’t miss all of the notifications. I just have texts and calls going to the Epix. I do have my notifications limited on the AW as well.

For me, maybe I’m just bored with the Apple Watch. I’ve worn once since launch, so I might have been looking for a change. I’m still closing my rings because I’m on a nearly 2750 day streak, so it’s hard to break it!

Overall, the AW and its software are more polished than the Garmin. I really don’t think there is a wrong choice between the two, it’s just which watch fits your needs better.

 

[rbart]

I also have the Ultra and Epix, but my use percentage is the opposite of yours, 90% Epix and 10% Ultra. IMO, the Epix is the superior fitness watch and the Ultra (or any Apple Watch) is the superior smart watch. I kind of like not having to download and pay for third party apps for fitness tracking on the Epix. Sometimes, I wish the Epix had LTE connectivity, but I really don’t miss all of the notifications. I just have texts and calls going to the Epix. I do have my notifications limited on the AW as well.

For me, maybe I’m just bored with the Apple Watch. I’ve worn once since launch, so I might have been looking for a change. I’m still closing my rings because I’m on a nearly 2750 day streak, so it’s hard to break it!

Overall, the AW and its software are more polished than the Garmin. I really don’t think there is a wrong choice between the two, it’s just which watch fits your needs better.

It’s strange to buy so expensive devices and to be annoyed to pay 10€ for an app (which costs months of work) that gives a lot more power to this device.
Apps are a main benefit on smartwatch, you have a lot of choice to fit your needs.

 

[BSG75]

It’s strange to buy so expensive devices and to be annoyed to pay 10€ for an app (which costs months of work) that gives a lot more power to this device.
Apps are a main benefit on smartwatch, you have a lot of choice to fit your needs.

Just speaking for my use case, I don't really want an extension of the phone on my wrist anymore, so I like having a watch that runs as independently from the phone as possible. IMO, I think Garmin should market the Epix, Fenix, Marq, etc., as connected watches, rather than smartwatches. As smartwatches they leave much to be desired.

 

[Monkswhiskers]

It’s strange to buy so expensive devices and to be annoyed to pay 10€ for an app (which costs months of work) that gives a lot more power to this device.
Apps are a main benefit on smartwatch, you have a lot of choice to fit your needs.

I don't mind paying for an app, but I very much dislike the subscription model, it's more financialisation.

 

[rbart]

I don't mind paying for an app, but I very much dislike the subscription model, it's more financialisation.

WorkOutDoors, YouRace are one time purchases

 

[Monkswhiskers]

WorkOutDoors, YouRace are one time purchases

Sure but they are becoming the exceptions!
Other than Training Today I don’t know of any recovery/hrv based apps that aren’t.

 

[rbart]

Sure but they are becoming the exceptions!
Other than Training Today I don’t know of any recovery/hrv based apps that aren’t.

I understand developers who go for subscription model.
My app is a one time purchase and the income is completely ridiculous compared to the time spent, compared to people request and complaints.
Some people are more angry with a bug on a 6€ independant app than against Apple who provides minimum support to developers …

 

[Monkswhiskers]

I understand developers who go for subscription model.
My app is a one time purchase and the income is completely ridiculous compared to the time spent, compared to people request and complaints.
Some people are more angry with a bug on a 6€ independant app than against Apple who provides minimum support to developers …

Sure, but you can buy a Garmin and once the watch is paid for no extra cost.

 

[rbart]

On the Garlin IQ store, there are »non free » apps

 

[d3vp0ll]

I went back and forth between my AW and Garmin Fenix twice last year and ultimately went back to just wearing my AW full time. I now use a Series 9, due to its extreme light weight and I prefer the style over the Ultra. I have small wrists so running with my fenix was a bit of a chore.

I missed the smartwatch functionality. I used a cellular AW daily for 5 years so going back to needing my phone all the time felt like a huge regression to me. The notifications don’t bother me, that’s what focus modes are for 😉.

I also just find the UI/UX so much better than Garmin. GarminOS feels like a calculator from the 90s, I guess that’s part of its charm, and I always admire the rugged look of Garmins.

When I first started wearing the Garmin I admired recovery and body battery and such but since switching back to the AW I’ve been using apps like Athlytic and HealthFit and Training Today and I’ve just gotten to the point where I fire up the Health App and check my vitals: HRV, Resting HR, SpO2 and away I go.

I can’t stand Garmin’s one way notifications (yes Apple’s at fault but I don’t care), lack of cellular, UI/UX and overall menu navigation and especially mapping. I thought mapping was their bread and butter but so many times I was on a trail and wanted my watch to get me back on track only to be so devastatingly disappointed by the sheer awful UI/UX while in maps. This couldn’t be easier on an AW.

 

[kecinzer]

I switched to Garmin Epix Pro 51mm 15 days ago. I was with Appple Watch from series 0 from end of 2015. But recently I start running on daily basis and do some other exercises. After 1,5 year of usage my AW Ultra 1, it barely survive 1 day and I had to charge it during day.
I have many of my friend with Garmin watches and I used RunGap app some time to sync my data to Garmin Connect app. I really like its's challenges, competitions, badges, community etc. It's much much better then stupid rings on Apple Watch, that I closed years in line.
I have WorkOutDoors and YourRace apps, but I mainly used stock Apple app because its fits me the best. I ran few times with WOD with navigation, but battery consumption was huge.

After I switched to Garmin, I have to say that sport/fitness functions are far better. You don't need any extra application for activites, because it has many options and customizations built in. Battery life is from other universe compared to Ultra. Honestly, for normal usage, you don't need any extra application.

In terms of smart function, it's not that good, but I can live with it. I really miss LTE on it, because I used to run without my phone. So I start to go run with my phone and it's not that bad.

I was deciding long time to make this switch and now I'm glad to do it. I already sold my Watch Ultra.

 

[d3vp0ll]

“In terms of smart function, it's not that good, but I can live with it. I really miss LTE on it, because I used to run without my phone. So I start to go run with my phone and it's not that bad.”

This right here is my problem. I couldn’t imagine spending MORE on a watch than the Ultra and not having nearly as many features, especially cellular.

As far as battery life, I’ll never understand the craze over this. We all charge our phones daily, what is the big deal?

To each their own of course. But I just couldn’t live without a smart watch.

 

[xDKP]

I thought mapping was their bread and butter but so many times I was on a trail and wanted my watch to get me back on track only to be so devastatingly disappointed by the sheer awful UI/UX while in maps. This couldn’t be easier on an AW.

Sounds like you run with mapping on your Apple Watch - what app do you use for that? I really hope they make a good mapping option for it with next WatchOS - Just for when running on holidays and new areas, where pre-designed route and navigation would be great.

 

[d3vp0ll]

Sounds like you run with mapping on your Apple Watch - what app do you use for that? I really hope they make a good mapping option for it with next WatchOS - Just for when running on holidays and new areas, where pre-designed route and navigation would be great.

I mostly use WorkOutDoors for that. I import gpx files for navigation. It’s great.

But I was hiking on a trail in the Everglades a few weeks ago and needed navigation in a pinch, just fired up Apple Maps and away I went. I didn’t have my phone yet Apple Maps had the trail I was on. It was great.

 

[kecinzer]

As far as battery life, I’ll never understand the craze over this. We all charge our phones daily, what is the big deal?

When you will need charge you Ultra twice a day (like me) you will understand.
I'm using workout app very often, so every my model of Apple Watch degrade battery very quickly. And in point of battery life - more you drain battery, faster it degrades and looses capacity.

So in long term, Garmin will live much more then any Apple Watch when I need to charge it 7x less (1 time per week).

If Apple release Apple Watch Ultra with 1 week battery life, I will consider to go back 😄.

 

[d3vp0ll]

When you will need charge you Ultra twice a day (like me) you will understand.
I'm using workout app very often, so every my model of Apple Watch degrade battery very quickly. And in point of battery life - more you drain battery, faster it degrades and looses capacity.

So in long term, Garmin will live much more then any Apple Watch when I need to charge it 7x less (1 time per week).

If Apple release Apple Watch Ultra with 1 week battery life, I will consider to go back 😄.

I put my Series 9 on charge twice a day, when I first wake up and at nighttime before bed. I log a lot of GPS/workout time as well, so I do understand. But again I fail to see the issue. I went into my purchase decision knowing the battery life.

If you’re having serious battery degradation on your Ultra I recommend contacting Apple, perhaps your battery is defective.

I’m not trolling but again these are smart watches, their tiny iPhones - right, wrong or indifferent. I would certainly expect a non-smart fitness focused watch to last a lot longer.

 

[rbart]

Sounds like you run with mapping on your Apple Watch - what app do you use for that? I really hope they make a good mapping option for it with next WatchOS - Just for when running on holidays and new areas, where pre-designed route and navigation would be great.

You can try my app: YouRace
Mapping is done with Apple Maps, you can import GPX and it's less complex than WOD.

 

[rbart]

When you will need charge you Ultra twice a day (like me) you will understand.
I'm using workout app very often, so every my model of Apple Watch degrade battery very quickly. And in point of battery life - more you drain battery, faster it degrades and looses capacity.

So in long term, Garmin will live much more then any Apple Watch when I need to charge it 7x less (1 time per week).

If Apple release Apple Watch Ultra with 1 week battery life, I will consider to go back 😄.

It's incredible your Ultra doesn't last one day !!!
Do you run 6 hours a day ?

 

[kecinzer]

I put my Series 9 on charge twice a day, when I first wake up and at nighttime before bed. I log a lot of GPS/workout time as well, so I do understand. But again I fail to see the issue. I went into my purchase decision knowing the battery life.

If you’re having serious battery degradation on your Ultra I recommend contacting Apple, perhaps your battery is defective.

I’m not trolling but again these are smart watches, their tiny iPhones - right, wrong or indifferent. I would certainly expect a non-smart fitness focused watch to last a lot longer.

I don't thing that all my Apple Watches were defective. It's because I use it a lot and drain battery every day, so it health going down. That is normal nature of batteries.
I used to use AC+ to switch Watch around 1,5 years of its age.
I go for Ultra because of 36 hours of battery life and at first I can charge once a day before bed, but if some unexpected situation come out and I need to go out, I always needed to carry charger with me. And honestly it start to be pain for me.
We don't need to argue. Someone likes AW someone Garmin. I'm currently in team Garmin and not planning to go back.

It's incredible your Ultra doesn't last one day !!!
Do you run 6 hours a day ?

It last at beginning, but now, when battery was at 89% of health not.
I'm running 1,5 - 2 hours/day (with podcasts on LTE) then around 2 hours of walks.
Never-mind, I already sold it.

 

[d3vp0ll]

I don't thing that all my Apple Watches were defective. It's because I use it a lot and drain battery every day, so it health going down. That is normal nature of batteries.
I used to use AC+ to switch Watch around 1,5 years of its age.
I go for Ultra because of 36 hours of battery life and at first I can charge once a day before bed, but if some unexpected situation come out and I need to go out, I always needed to carry charger with me. And honestly it start to be pain for me.
We don't need to argue. Someone likes AW someone Garmin. I'm currently in team Garmin and not planning to go back.

It last at beginning, but now, when battery was at 89% of health not.
I'm running 1,5 - 2 hours/day (with podcasts on LTE) then around 2 hours of walks.
Never-mind, I already sold it.

The Ultra battery is rated for 36 hours. That’s 1.5 days.

Sometimes I think Ultra owners think 36 hours is more than just a day and a half

¯\_(ツ)_/¯