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You might consider a wagon - The Jetta SportWagen TDI is a good choice for camping expeditions. Plenty of space inside, perfect for light towing duty and fuel economy is excellent at 30/42mpg. The Escape Hybrid is several thousand dollars more expensive and doesn't necessarily give you better fuel economy (especially on the highway), but if you are dead-set on an SUV and must have AWD then it may be your best option. If you are looking at a gasoline-only option, get a Subaru. Of course, when Subaru's diesel engine finally makes it to the USA, it will be my recommendation for this class of vehicle.

Full disclosure - I like wagons, I don't like SUVs.

Thanks, I'll check that out. I'm currently driving a 2005 Toyota Matrix which was supposed to be the best of both worlds -- not quite an SUV but taller than most cars. Unfortunately its fuel economy isn't anything to write home about either, and I really feel that I could get a better vehicle AND get better fuel economy -- perhaps with the aforementioned VW.
 
Thanks, I'll check that out. I'm currently driving a 2005 Toyota Matrix which was supposed to be the best of both worlds -- not quite an SUV but taller than most cars. Unfortunately its fuel economy isn't anything to write home about either, and I really feel that I could get a better vehicle AND get better fuel economy -- perhaps with the aforementioned VW.

MINI Countryman. :cool:
 
People are just going to have to get used to rising fuel prices, the cost of fuel has been rising ever since cars first hit the market and will keep going up till it's all gone.

Increasing numbers of people are going to be forced to ration their driving, and fuel economy will become an increasingly critical factor in car purchases.
 
I will submit my previous argument of why $3.88 per gallon here in the states is just as bad as it is $7-10 per gallon in the UK.....

United States

UK

UK-2


The USA has nothing for public transportation. There are no train stations here, no subway systems except for a few cities. No city buses within 100 miles of here.
 
I am awaiting the point when driver-only vehicles will start to decline.

Still around 90% here, and that is simply unacceptable.

Give up some freedom, and car pool.

Everyone wins, well, except Big Oil, and the tax man.

But **** them, right??
 
I will submit my previous argument of why $3.88 per gallon here in the states is just as bad as it is $7-10 per gallon in the UK.....

I agree to an extent - gasoline costs affect commuters in the US more directly than they do in places like the UK. However, it is not fair to consider the lack of public transport in the US as an eternal constant, or as a decisive argument for focusing on keeping fuel prices very low at all costs.

It needs to change. Our highway-biased transportation infrastucture developed as it did partially due to the influence of auto manufacturers and the availability of cheap fuel. Times change. We have to change. Incrementally, of course, but Americans need to start taking a serious look at their travel/commuting alternatives rather than screaming for the government to somehow keep fuel cheap.
 
I don't know where the guy who quoted $10/gal in the UK is buying his petrol, but it certainly isn't that expensive in both places I've been recently (at opposite ends of the country).

My most recent fill was £1.369 per litre. That works out at $8.78 per US gallon (remember, a US gallon is smaller than an imperial gallon).

I agree to an extent - gasoline costs affect commuters in the US more directly than they do in places like the UK. However, it is not fair to consider the lack of public transport in the US as an eternal constant, or as a decisive argument for focusing on keeping fuel prices very low at all costs.

It needs to change. Our highway-biased transportation infrastucture developed as it did partially due to the influence of auto manufacturers and the availability of cheap fuel. Times change. We have to change. Incrementally, of course, but Americans need to start taking a serious look at their travel/commuting alternatives rather than screaming for the government to somehow keep fuel cheap.

The thing I don't understand is that in many areas of the USA, the "highway-biased transportation infrastructure" you speak of has resulted in wide, flat and straight roads. With this in mind, why do so many people in the USA drive vehicles with huge engines if they are rarely going to use them for acceleration?

I've been in plenty of 1 litre and sub-1 litre cars that can handle a "highway" just fine. They can cruise at 70-80mph no problem. It might take them 10+ seconds to get to that speed, but who cares? If you only need to accelerate once to get up to that speed, why pay all the fuel costs of a huge engine when you are going to be cruising along at constant speed anyway?
 
The thing I don't understand is that in many areas of the USA, the "highway-biased transportation infrastructure" you speak of has resulted in wide, flat and straight roads. With this in mind, why do so many people in the USA drive vehicles with huge engines if they are rarely going to use them for acceleration?

I've been in plenty of 1 litre and sub-1 litre cars that can handle a "highway" just fine. They can cruise at 70-80mph no problem. It might take them 10+ seconds to get to that speed, but who cares? If you only need to accelerate once to get up to that speed, why pay all the fuel costs of a huge engine when you are going to be cruising along at constant speed anyway?

The interstate "highway-biased transportation infrastructure" was inspired by Germany's autobahn and developed initially as a defense tool. Most of us still do most of our driving fairly locally. Our culture made the house with the white picket fence the American Dream, leading to suburbs, sprawl, and long commutes. Our desire for freedom to get where we want when we want drove the importance of the automobile. The car became an expression of us...whether the muscle cars of the '60's-'70's, the emerge an ridiculous popularity of SUV's that prevented some from having to buy the minivan that would have been more practical.

You are asking a rational question. However, in he U.S. buying a car is lesspractical and more emotional. with such low gas prices, fuel economy has usually taken a back seat in the car buying decision.

With high enough prices we very well may see changers in car purchasing decisions. What's less likely is that unless gas prices really soar, I doubt we'll see a significant infrastructure change to make mass transit widespread or convenient enough to change the car culture embedded in our national DNA.
 
The interstate "highway-biased transportation infrastructure" was inspired by Germany's autobahn and developed initially as a defense tool. Most of us still do most of our driving fairly locally. Our culture made the house with the white picket fence the American Dream, leading to suburbs, sprawl, and long commutes. Our desire for freedom to get where we want when we want drove the importance of the automobile. The car became an expression of us...whether the muscle cars of the '60's-'70's, the emerge an ridiculous popularity of SUV's that prevented some from having to buy the minivan that would have been more practical.

You are asking a rational question. However, in he U.S. buying a car is lesspractical and more emotional. with such low gas prices, fuel economy has usually taken a back seat in the car buying decision.

while i agree about a different car culture etc. i have to disagree on US buyers being 'more' emotional.. they are only emotional in other aspects ... while US buyers seem to have an absolut irrational love for sedans, while not liking vehicles with hatches unless it's an SUV, they are still in the majority spec sheet/ gizmo list comparing "value-for-money" customers
if they weren't, new brands like lexus, acura and infiniti wouldn't have that raging success in a rather short time and before that the japanese 'mother'brands which were equally fast adopted by US car buyers
and today Kia and Hyundai have again a massive momentum

in western european markets new brands have serious problems starting up simply for the fact that 'brand prestige' still plays a big role while on the other side engine displacement is absolutly irrelevant

it's simply that customers value different things emotionaly on the sides of the atlantic ... making a bullets point list, which sides values what ,is quite easy. Making a car that is very succesful in all the big markets seems to have become impossible over the time.
so far only the original Beetle has more or less achieved the status of a world car
 
while i agree about a different car culture etc. i have to disagree on US buyers being 'more' emotional.. they are only emotional in other aspects ... while US buyers seem to have an absolut irrational love for sedans, while not liking vehicles with hatches unless it's an SUV, they are still in the majority spec sheet/ gizmo list comparing "value-for-money" customers

I think you are correct. It isn't about emotion as much as it is entitlement. We drive heavy/fast/overpowered cars because we can. Mind you, all those qualifiers are relative and subjective - but compared to other countries the US seems to have less environmental responsibility and less frugality when it comes to cars.

Obviously, our history of cheap gas left the door wide open for us to drive as we please, but no one has a gun to anyone's head saying "you must put your family in a large SUV." For example, I drove a 4x4 pickup for 10 years... It was heavy, thirsty, and terribly impractical for much other than hauling stuff or trudging through rocky terrain. As a single apartment-dweller, I really didn't have much stuff to haul, and I wasn't an especially avid off-roader. It was just my god-given right as a 'Mericun to get 13 mpg if I wanted. Woot.

I think our value system is a little skewed towards the "super-sized" mentality as well... In some ways, we buy vehicles by the pound... why buy a $40,000 Lexus IS (which would be rather small) when you can spend $40,000 and get a Toyota Highlander that will hold a lot more stuff? The appeal of a "jewel box" is lost on many of us.
 
Off the top of my head I'd have to guess that fuel is cheaper in the US than anywhere else apart from oil-producing countries with refineries.



I like the Mini Cooper, but the Countryman is pointless - a big Mini?

I'm actually considering a Countryman for my next purchase. It's up against the Honda CRV and Lexus CT, but I'd like to see 30+ MPG, great utility and some usable space.
 
I agree to an extent - gasoline costs affect commuters in the US more directly than they do in places like the UK. However, it is not fair to consider the lack of public transport in the US as an eternal constant, or as a decisive argument for focusing on keeping fuel prices very low at all costs.

It needs to change. Our highway-biased transportation infrastucture developed as it did partially due to the influence of auto manufacturers and the availability of cheap fuel. Times change. We have to change. Incrementally, of course, but Americans need to start taking a serious look at their travel/commuting alternatives rather than screaming for the government to somehow keep fuel cheap.

The irony is that at one time the USA had a rail network that was just about the best in the world.
Ripping huge chunks out of this excellent network to replace them with freeways was possibly not the best long term idea.
 
This is why I'm glad my 1998 model year Honda Civic HX coupe gets 31-36 miles per US gallon fuel economy. :D

I never liked driving big cars because parking one is such a pain. And with today's technology, a new model like the 2012 Hyundai Accent saloon (coming to the US market next month) has more interior space than my Civic, probably accelerates faster, and gets better fuel economy, too.
 
Well, come to the UK where it's at least $10 (£1.36 per litre).

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/gas-prices-climb-388/story?id=13451777

yeah but your minimum wage is £6 an hour. thats over $10 an hour. minimum wage is $7 here and we are paying over $4 per gallon. thats more than half the hourly wage, which is crazy. it costs me more to drive to work some days than i make at work.

Really? I don't think people who can't afford to pay $5+ for a gallon of gas are in a position to buy a new car.

$150 savings in the first month would help.. thats half the monthly payment on a brand new car.


i drive like 400-500 miles a week between home, work, and school, and now I'm spending nearly $80 a week on gas (and i have a tiny saturn that gets around 32mpg). it's insane. our economy is going to completely collapse if we keep going like this.
 
yeah but your minimum wage is £6 an hour. thats over $10 an hour. minimum wage is $7 here and we are paying over $4 per gallon. thats more than half the hourly wage, which is crazy. it costs me more to drive to work some days than i make at work.

not every EU country has a federal minimum wage though (Germany for example) but that is steering offtopic IMHO



regarding the US being hit hard: i think the problematic point is the used market. the US simply lacks a history of having small cars and thus somebody can't easily ditch his current car and go for a smaller used car which might save some fuel. That supply can't appear from thin air
 
i drive like 400-500 miles a week between home, work, and school, and now I'm spending nearly $80 a week on gas (and i have a tiny saturn that gets around 32mpg). it's insane. our economy is going to completely collapse if we keep going like this.

I've said this in a previous thread on the subject - our lifestyles need to change. Americans consider cars as the solution to complete freedom of movement for all economic classes. Everybody, from the poor to the rich, can afford a car and drive wherever they need/want to go. But this reality is changing. Cars are a privilege, a luxury.

The solution lies not in a quest for cheaper gas, but in new ways of getting around.
 
Agree with this 100%. I hate those behemoths that clutter my view. I also don't care for their drivers that often behave like kings of the road. Hope to see them gone soon.

On the other hand, that WRX I want gets V8 mileage so now I'm thinking about it twice. :)

I am all for people who don't need trucks and SUV's to GTFO out of them, but don't lump people who actually do use them for what they were designed for into the bunch

Anyway, I am moving to Australia or GM revives the El Camino and imports it to the US so I can still have a truck bed to keep my cool status.

2009080321084963.jpg


:cool:


I bet GM are feeling pretty stupid now for killing off the EV1.:mad:

You know GM wasn't the only one to kill their electric vehicle back in the 90's.... Toyota killed their RAV4 electric as well.....

Anyway, they have the Volt right now which is the best vehicle for the market, IMHO. The Leaf is not a good primary vehicle at the moment. Range varies and takes long time to recharge if you don't get the 240 volt recharger( 20 hours on 120 volt). While the range varies on the Volt as well, you have a gasoline generator waiting to take over.
 
I will submit my previous argument of why $3.88 per gallon here in the states is just as bad as it is $7-10 per gallon in the UK.....

United States

UK

UK-2


The USA has nothing for public transportation. There are no train stations here, no subway systems except for a few cities. No city buses within 100 miles of here.

Rolla has public transit - just bribe an underage UMR (err, S&T) student with some beer and they'll give you a lift next time they go back home to STL for the weekend ;)
 
I paid NOK 14.36 per for gas today, but I don't care what it cost as I always fill up for NOK 200... :p

NOK 14.36/l = $10.38/US gallon with todays exchange rate.

Still way too cheap, IMO: Gas should cost at least NOK 30/l (just over $20/gallon). That would have forced more people to (re) consider other means of transport, and forced governments all over the world to facilitate such a change.
 
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