GeForce 4 Ti

arn

macrumors god
Original poster
Staff member
Apr 9, 2001
14,499
1,783
Apple announced the GeForce 4 Tianium for the Power Mac G4 -- beginning next month.

Delivered on a AGP 4X card containing 128MB of double data rate
(DDR) SDRAM, the GeForce4 Titanium processor renders incredibly lifelike
content and special effects such as real-time character animation and amazing
surface details never before seen on a personal computer.


- 87 million triangles per second and 4.9 billion textured pixels per second to
perform over 1.23 trillion operations per second.
- Both ADC and DVI connectors
- included DVI->VGA adapter
- $250 extra on 933, Dual 1GHz machines
- $350 extra on 800 Mhz models
- Upgrade kit available for $399.
 

unclepain

macrumors member
Jan 23, 2002
67
0
Va Beach VA
What about the memory bottlenecks?

Man, that looks sweet, but will the SDRAM bottleneck as well as the Logic Board Bus Speed bottleneck hamper the performance? I was looking at the benchmarks of the ATI 7500 and the G Force4 MX on XLR8yourmac.com and they started to really bog down once the resolution and quality were kicked up and there really wasn't much difference between the 2 at that point either. Mike thought it was bottlenecks to the logic board and Ram. (At least in Quake) Wonder how this thing will run in the new Logic Boards that are rumored to be in the pipeline....
 

Hemingray

macrumors 68030
Jan 9, 2002
2,913
25
Ha ha haaa!
Saw that one coming a mile away. You're right about the bottlenecks, but compare that to my G4 400 running Rage128Pro and there's very little to complain about. ;) I can't wait for the new mobo's... it's gonna be sweet.
 

Scab Cake

macrumors member
Jul 26, 2001
81
0
Better than gf3?

Now, I'm going to assume that since the press release says, "The world's fastest graphics processor inside of the world's fastest personal computer," that the GF4Ti is faster than the GF3, AND $100 cheaper.

I checked on Nvidia's site and they didn't really have specs on triangles/sec for the gf3, but I might not have been looking hard enough. Does anyone have the lowdown on this whole thing? I'm in the market to get a new video card sometime this semester (I have the gf2mx...blech), and I'd really like to know which one to get.

Thanks,
 

Gelfin

macrumors 68020
Sep 18, 2001
2,166
4
Denver, CO
Re: What about the memory bottlenecks?

A slower bus will always mean lower performance than a faster bus, of course. You've got to move things from main memory into the video card's RAM. The good news is, the more RAM your video card has, the less you'll feel the effects (assuming your software is written to take advantage of it).

As far as the GF4MX / RADEON 7500 comparison, first, it appears that the GeForce4 MX is something of a hybrid. It's kind of unclear so far exactly where that chip fits into the family tree, so to speak. Second, you're looking at a comparison between a card that's been running and supported for some time now (the RADEON), and a card that's barely seen the light of day (the GeForce). A lot of difference could be seen here as drivers for the GeForce mature a bit. It's easy to underestimate the effect this can have.

Switching gears a bit, I recall many years back, when 3D accelerators were first coming into the mainstream (and chipmakers were patting themselves on the back for approaching a million tri/s), the claim was made by some experts in the field that in order to generate a scene more or less indistinguishable from a raytraced image, you'd need... 80 Mtri/sec. It's really exciting to see a chip that finally breaks this threshhold, and I'm looking forward to testing that claim. :D
 

sparkleytone

macrumors 68020
Oct 28, 2001
2,307
0
Greensboro, NC
if you guys are even REMOTELY happy with ATI drivers, then you will be blown away by NVIDIA as they continue to support the Mac (hopefully).

ATI is losing on the PC side because of driver programming, and thats it. Their hardware is superior, but they cannot squeeze performance out of it like NVIDIA does their cards.

It's all about the software baby.
 

eyelikeart

Moderator emeritus
Jan 2, 2001
11,897
0
Metairie, LA
eventually....

128 MB RAM!! I feel that eventually we're going to start seeing video cards with as much memory as the computers themselves! :eek:
 
TiBook

This is great news, I just hope that apple starts using DDR Ram (I don't know name for sure) Its is so fast somone I know has it and it is so fast that it has fans installed! Also Apple should give a speed bump to TiBook it should have at least 800mhz soon.

__________________________
Not all who wander are lost.
 

Scab Cake

macrumors member
Jul 26, 2001
81
0
Re: TiBook

Originally posted by Macmaniac
somone I know has it and it is so fast that it has fans installed!

Wow! Do the fans make the data move faster? All kidding aside, I'd rather wait until they can get DDR RAM cooler so I don't have ANOTHER fan in my Quicksilver. There's enough sound coming from it as it is.
 

blakespot

Administrator
Jun 4, 2000
1,316
49
Alexandria, VA
Re: What about the memory bottlenecks?

Originally posted by unclepain
Man, that looks sweet, but will the SDRAM bottleneck as well as the Logic Board Bus Speed bottleneck hamper the performance? I was looking at the benchmarks of the ATI 7500 and the G Force4 MX on XLR8yourmac.com and they started to really bog down once the resolution and quality were kicked up and there really wasn't much difference between the 2 at that point either. Mike thought it was bottlenecks to the logic board and Ram. (At least in Quake) Wonder how this thing will run in the new Logic Boards that are rumored to be in the pipeline....

Well, there's nothing faster out there than a GeForce 4 Ti with its DDR SDRAM. So it seems not worth considering, whether the SDRAM is slowing it down. As well, there's no faster logic board on a Mac than the 133MHz bus we've got in the G4 towers. (A modern, fast PC motherboard is superior in architecture to the G4 towers, true.)


blakespot
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Originally posted by sparkleytone
if you guys are even REMOTELY happy with ATI drivers, then you will be blown away by NVIDIA as they continue to support the Mac (hopefully).

ATI is losing on the PC side because of driver programming, and thats it. Their hardware is superior, but they cannot squeeze performance out of it like NVIDIA does their cards.

It's all about the software baby.
While ATI may not be as strong with their PC software as nVIDIA, but I find ATI much more stable and reliable than nVIDIA on the mac side. Numerious articles / reviews around the web seem to point this out.

I am not saying that after more time nVIDIA won't gain strength, but that is in the future and who knows what will come about in the long run. The same could be said for ATI...some are pointing towards DX9 (on the PC side) coming giving ATI the edge over nVIDIA (Microsoft seems to be using 8500 cards quite abit during there writing of DX9 code) (DX9 will bring about more speed for the 8500 as well)

The bottom line, it's a fun time to be a consumer in the Graphic Card arena!!
 
S

StuPid QPid

Guest
They can sell their GF4MX...

Hmmm.

Kinda sucks for all of the "pros" who just plunked down their cash for a DP 1 gig... Now they've got another 400 bucks to spend.
I'm sure you could get a good price for one of those on eBay at the moment. Then just upgrade. You probably won't lose more than $50 at a guess.
 

AlphaTech

macrumors 601
Oct 4, 2001
4,556
0
Natick, MA
Re: TiBook

Originally posted by Macmaniac
This is great news, I just hope that apple starts using DDR Ram (I don't know name for sure) Its is so fast somone I know has it and it is so fast that it has fans installed! Also Apple should give a speed bump to TiBook it should have at least 800mhz soon.
Fans on memory are NOT needed. Even on high speed DDR memory (PC2100+). I actually spoke with the people that sell the heat sinks and fans for memory and was informed that of you have decent air flow (as all Mac's do) then the fans on memory are not needed. Most (95% or more) of the people that put the fans on memory are severely overclocking their computers (generating gobs of heat by that alone). Those are the same people that have installed water cooling systems inside their computers to remove heat.

When Apple goes to DDR memory, don't worry about the heat, they will position it so that it remains cool enough.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Re: GeForce 4 Ti

Originally posted by arn

Delivered on a AGP 4X card containing 128MB of double data rate
(DDR) SDRAM, the GeForce4 Titanium processor renders incredibly lifelike
content and special effects such as real-time character animation and amazing
surface details never before seen on a personal computer.


oooh! look! a bunch of features that you'll buy and NEVER use!! w00t!

go on - tell me this is NOT a card optimised for dx9 and that really, us apple users will see these features used under open gl (wheres John Carmack when you need him? ;) ). That, coupled with the aforementioned bottlenecks, makes any buyer of this card over, say, a GF2 ultra one with more money than sense - especially if they shell out for it at the apple store. Sorry, but these "non-value" added BTO rip offs (apple supplied memory anyone?) are starting to make me mad....
 

groucho

macrumors newbie
Jan 26, 2002
7
0
USA
hmmm, look at this

link: http://www.datek.com/popinframe.html?osymb=NASDAQ&symb=aapl&where=pub-qcn.asp&ref=http://custom.marketwatch.com/custom/datek-com/pub/pub-qcn.asp&navNumber=2\

once you're there click on the top link titled: "/K I L L K I L L K I L L -- Apple Computer Inc./  - PRNewswire"

an excerpt from that article: "We are advised by Apple Computer Inc. (AAPL) that journalists and other readers should disregard the news release, Apple Announces NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium for Power Mac G4 Line, issued earlier today over PR Newswire, as it contained some erroneous information."
What's that supposed to mean?
 

Simon Liquid

macrumors regular
Jul 4, 2001
223
0
Iowa
Re: hmmm, look at this

Maybe its because NVIDIA hasn't anounced the card today, as was planned. Theres nothing on the web site anyway.

simon
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
would it be possible to put one of these in one of the new iMacs. Would even be practical.
 

Catfish_Man

macrumors 68030
Sep 13, 2001
2,579
1
Portland, OR
ATI losing???

The Radeon 8500 is the fastest chip on the market until the GF4 is released, and it has TruForm. Both of these are true whether you're running a PC or a Mac. However, it may not be fast enough. I recently read an article with Unreal II benchmarks that had both the Radeon 8500 and the GeForce 3 Ti500 getting only 22-24fps on it (@1600X1200).
 

pvk

macrumors newbie
Sep 17, 2001
4
0
What about the software

Good, but when will Java3D be available on the Mac ?
 

IndyGopher

macrumors 6502a
Nov 3, 2001
782
1
Indianapolis, IN
Well, early or not, error or not, the Apple Store is now listing them as a BTO option, as well as an entry for "second monitor" with dual ADC monitors (with a Dr. Bott DVIator). The shipping estimate on a "stock" (plus the GeForce 4 Ti) is 6-8 weeks. So "next month" also might be a tight squeeze.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Re: ATI losing???

Originally posted by Catfish_Man
The Radeon 8500 is the fastest chip on the market until the GF4 is released, and it has TruForm. Both of these are true whether you're running a PC or a Mac. However, it may not be fast enough. I recently read an article with Unreal II benchmarks that had both the Radeon 8500 and the GeForce 3 Ti500 getting only 22-24fps on it (@1600X1200).
1600 x 1200 as a gaming resolution was really unheard of until today because of the GF4...speed upgrades like those introduced today will bring us to the next level of gaming...no more cartoon type imagery - characters and scenes will become more realistic in time.

My only question is this...why the new product designation for the Geforce?

I see no new technology announced...should this not be a GF3ULTRA?

Or is nVIDIA trying to build the marketing hype?

This scheme intially worked with the Dual1ghz G4...everyone saw the GF4MX and rushed to buy the G4...(although when people realized this was basically a GF2.5 lots of people cancelled or delayed there orders - and left a foul taste in many mouths)
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Re: Re: ATI losing???

Originally posted by Unregistered


1600 x 1200 as a gaming resolution was really unheard of until today because of the GF4...speed upgrades like those introduced today will bring us to the next level of gaming...no more cartoon type imagery - characters and scenes will become more realistic in time.

My only question is this...why the new product designation for the Geforce?

I see no new technology announced...should this not be a GF3ULTRA?

Or is nVIDIA trying to build the marketing hype?

This scheme intially worked with the Dual1ghz G4...everyone saw the GF4MX and rushed to buy the G4...(although when people realized this was basically a GF2.5 lots of people cancelled or delayed there orders - and left a foul taste in many mouths)
Question answered from The Tech Report:


JUST ABOUT ACCORDING TO schedule, NVIDIA has unveiled a top-to-bottom refresh of its entire desktop graphics product line. The new NVIDIA chips, dubbed GeForce4 Ti and GeForce4 MX, bring with them a number of new features and better performance, which is always a good thing. However, they do little to advance the state of the art in 3D graphics, nor has the GeForce4 Ti unambiguously recaptured the technology lead from ATI's Radeon 8500.