Genius and Manager deny repair as "Act of God" for my AppleCare Protection Plan for M

[thekev]

The burden of proof is on you. You've already said you have access to free legal resources to help you - seems to me that you'll have a lot better luck with them as opposed to arguing on an internet forum.

Well he did say he's still under Applecare. They should have at least checked the thing. Saying there was a storm means it's likely that a circuit was blown here, but there is no guarantee of it. They should have at least examined the problem.

I had a friend who's iMac was fried when lightning hit the utility pole in front of her house. Apple gave her a new iMac. I am betting that she was very cordial, did not insist on a solution, did not argue legalities, or use words like "prove it".

Anecdotes are silly and not even remotely helpful, because they aren't necessarily repeatable. You heard from your friend that she received and exception. This does not establish any kind of precedence for anyone else. It's a different day under the discretion of a different employee. You have nothing here. You're just implying that perceived rudeness is the reason this was not repaired, and that as a matter of policy is ridiculous.

How does someone stress test a computer?

You can use something like Prime 95 run over several hours. For ram you can run several cycles of memtest in single user mode. I do that when I buy new ram. If any of it generates an error over 5 or so cycles of memtest, I send it back, as bit flipping should not be a common occurrence. It can sometimes reveal problems that may not yet be evident under normal use. It's like with a dying gpu where it still brings up your desktop, yet you may start to see artifacts within either a demanding game or application that uses OpenGL drawing.

 

[harcosparky]

What is "other external cause" if it's not an act of god. If they are saying its electrical that's worded in the new policy, with act of god, and other external cause listed. If they include electrical from a electrical storm that is an an act of god and it shouldn't need to be listed twice; therefore, what is an act of god or other external cause?

What part of " it's not covered " do you not understand.

What part of " external cause " do you not understand?

You damage is the result of an " external cause " and you were crazy enough to tell Apple it was.

" Other external cause " is a term used to included any failure caused by anything outside of the computer.


Personally I will NEVER walk into Apple and say things like ....

" Hey I was drinking a cup of coffee when some spilled and ...... "

" Hey my ethernet port failed after we had a storm ... "



I will walk in, hand it to them and say ......

" Hey I think something is wrong ... "

Then it is up to them to determine the fault and cause.




I got some news for you, Apple might well have repaired your computer if you had not volunteered the storm information. They DO NOT have the ability to diagnose a component failure for damage like that, unless if course the computer was outside and directly hit by lightning. They'd have to begin dissecting components and examine them under a microscope or even an SEM.

 

[Nandifix]

Why would you tell the big headed apple store staff this? Should have just said it randomly stopped working..

 

[rkahl]

Why should I worry about what I say? The genius could have avoided all conflict had they did a more in depth analysis of the computer, instead of dismissing me. They are doing that now. Thanks for all the support and for all the haters I was just lashing back at one person who doesn't believe I deserve better benefits than them at work. lol, hater's gonna hate.

The CSR at AppleCare and the manager at the apple store have agreed to fix the logic board as long as there is not any charring or burning. All of this could have been avoided had the genius at the first store just check in my computer and call me after they started repair. Again I appreciate all the support.

 

[iSayuSay]

Well .. I wouldn't say my ethernet stopped working after power surge or storm. You're just making their job easier and they can dismiss you immediately since it's clear AppleCare only cover manufacture defects.

You don't like the idea of lying? Well then don't say anything .. play stupid and report your ethernet suddenly stopped working .. Just poof like that. It's gone. Don't say anything more, you don't have to lie either do you?

Then it's up to them to find out what's the cause. Yes they could find out if your machine has been struck by thunder or some sort, but it could be not too since your machine still works beside Ethernet port. They could just replace it easily.

 

[s15119]

You're not covered. You don't have a case. It's a sad story, but move on.

----------

Why should I worry about what I say? The genius could have avoided all conflict had they did a more in depth analysis of the computer, instead of dismissing me. They are doing that now. Thanks for all the support and for all the haters I was just lashing back at one person who doesn't believe I deserve better benefits than them at work. lol, hater's gonna hate.

The CSR at AppleCare and the manager at the apple store have agreed to fix the logic board as long as there is not any charring or burning. All of this could have been avoided had the genius at the first store just check in my computer and call me after they started repair. Again I appreciate all the support.

If they are fixing it, it's good will or to get rid of you. Under the terms of your warranty you were not covered.

 

[jlsm511]

I worked at an Apple Retail Store 2 years ago, and a bunch of the Specialists would tout up the fact that AppleCare (APP) covered lightning strikes and electrical overloads as a way to get people to buy the APP, thus boosting their numbers. I never did this since I have more then a shred of intelligence and actually read the APP agreement and saw that it was vague in stating if it was covered or not. I know from first hand experience however that, at that time, the Geniuses and Store Leadership had broad authority to repair or replace machines, which were under the extended APP (but usually not the standard 1 yr APP) if they had experienced a electrical surge. Living in FL, this was obviously a big selling point, and I never saw anyone turned away from a machine repair because their machine suffered a surge, but it varies wildly from store to store. Honestly, it's best to admit as little as possible and let the Geniuses investigate. They can jump onto the smallest thing to invalidate your claim, and basically make whatever protection you have left on your machine worthless. Patience and calmness is a virtue, shouting at them won't win anything, your much more likely to reach a favorable outcome by speaking calmly and rationally, explain your position clearly and avoid threatening them. I've seen customers thrown out because they get up in the employees face and "demand" what they want, even if its a new phone because they threw theirs into the pool in a drunken stupor. Just be calm and Apple will treat your right.

 

[deblewis]

ya know OP I hope you never get a dime. I've been reading this thread and have watched you be condescending, argumentative, and insulting over and over again. I can just imagine how you were in the store. It's probably not an act of god, but just simple karma..

 

[Nova Sensei]

Act of God? This, my friends, was no mere act of God! Mankind's influence on global weather patterns has been well established and tested. Without mankind I put it to you that the storm in question would not have occurred as it did at that particular moment in time.

Also, there's no such thing as God.

Apple, replace this iMac. Now!

 

[Matthew Yohe]

When I purchased applecare and registered applecare with my mac it didn't mention anything about acts of god or storms or anything related.

Wrong.

Apple has since changed their policy, and I will fight this all the way.

Wrong. "Acts of God" "Force Majeure", it's all standard lawyer boiler-plate that has always been there.

Look, even on this site it's not hard to find posts from 8 years ago that mention that lightning and yes, even "Acts of God" were present in previous AppleCare contracts. : https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=970771&acts+of+god#post970771

 

[AppleDApp]

I find it odd how you work in the legal field.

 

[mischief]

My ethernet port recently stopped working so I called Applecare (I still have more than a year support left on my policy). I told them that I could not connect to the internet after the storm. Phone support could not help me so they scheduled me an appt. the next day at my local apple store. I went in there with the attitude of let me tell you everything I can say to help out... BIG MISTAKE! Once I mentioned storm or lightning he shot to the back for verification on electrical surges from his manager. He came back out and told me that AppleCare would not cover my damaged iMac because it was an act of God. I said prove it, he already reset the pram settings and did determine that it was most likely the logic board that went out. When I got home I typed in my serial number and looked up specifics on my AppleCare Protection Plan for Mac, especially what is NOT covered.

(ii) Damage caused by (a) a product that is not the Covered Equipment (b) accident, abuse, misuse, liquid contact, fire, earthquake or other external cause,

Now before people start saying "but other external cause is an Act of God", let me point you to AppleCare Premium Service and Support Plan which can also be found in the Apple - Additional Legal Rights for Consumers on the Apple Support Page.
Under the Premium Service and Support Plan Policy, the plan does not cover:

ii. Damage to the Covered Equipment caused by accident, abuse, neglect, misuse (including faulty installation, repair, or maintenance by anyone other than Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider), unauthorized modification, extreme environment (including extreme temperature or extreme physical or electrical stress or interference, fluctuation or surges of electrical power, lightning, static electricity, fire, acts of God or other external causes;

Notice how Apple threw in Acts of God. What is an act of God when they already have "other external causes" written in there. Also notice how they go in depth on lightning, surges, and static electricity.

Since my policy (AppleCare for Mac) lacks the in depth wording about storms while other AppleCare Policies do not (AppleCare Premium Service and Support Plan) do you think I have a case against Apple? It was a horrible experience and for the manager telling me no based on an act of god really bothers me. I packed my computer up and left the store immediately and now that I have read the scope of MY POLICY with my Serial Number of my iMac from the support page I am really pissed! Has anyone had the same experience of them trying to reword their policy to fit their needs first?

If anything, wouldn't you think the AppleCare Premium Service and Support Plan would be the plan that would not have electricity or act of god mentioned in it, while the regular plan (mine) would not????

Two issues:

One: If the staff can't point to your board and show me blown capacitors, fused wiring, etc. they have no case to deny you based on your anecdote about a storm.

Two: AppleCare has always and will always cover ONLY failures of Apple original components in original factory or Apple Authorized Service Staff modified condition. If you install third party RAM they will deny you coverage.

Find yourself an independent Apple Authorized Service Provider and ask that they inspect the unit very very carefully, look up any relevant "known issues" with that model in regards to failed ports (I can tell you right now there are at least 3 iMac models that lose their Ethernet port due to faulty parts) and TAKE PICTURES on your behalf. If you call AppleCare with a Service Provider handy willing to state you were wrongfully denied at the Apple Store they will likely want the pictures and it's very likely you'll get the lobo replaced.

There is an internal war between the Apple Retail part of the company and AppleCare. I can't explain the inner workings of that war but the AppleCare staff will be neither surprised nor on the retail store's side once you get up to talking to the engineering team.

If you have an Apple and it fails and you have the choice between an Apple Store and an independent Apple Authorized Service Provider, for your own sanity: USE THE THIRD PARTY. Apple Stores are subject to a wide array of metrics and their mishandling of AppleCare issues is LEGENDARY inside the company.

 

[Puevlo]

Two issues:

One: If the staff can't point to your board and show me blown capacitors, fused wiring, etc. they have no case to deny you based on your anecdote about a storm.

Two: AppleCare has always and will always cover ONLY failures of Apple original components in original factory or Apple Authorized Service Staff modified condition. If you install third party RAM they will deny you coverage.

Find yourself an independent Apple Authorized Service Provider and ask that they inspect the unit very very carefully, look up any relevant "known issues" with that model in regards to failed ports (I can tell you right now there are at least 3 iMac models that lose their Ethernet port due to faulty parts) and TAKE PICTURES on your behalf. If you call AppleCare with a Service Provider handy willing to state you were wrongfully denied at the Apple Store they will likely want the pictures and it's very likely you'll get the lobo replaced.

There is an internal war between the Apple Retail part of the company and AppleCare. I can't explain the inner workings of that war but the AppleCare staff will be neither surprised nor on the retail store's side once you get up to talking to the engineering team.

If you have an Apple and it fails and you have the choice between an Apple Store and an independent Apple Authorized Service Provider, for your own sanity: USE THE THIRD PARTY. Apple Stores are subject to a wide array of metrics and their mishandling of AppleCare issues is LEGENDARY inside the company.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[whodareswins]

I hate the term 'act of god'. No proof one even exists.

 

[appletechpro]

Prove it, Apple.

 

[MacVidCards]

Whatever happened to "personal responsibility"?

 

[leman]

Things like these are covered by your homeowner insurance. I hope you have one. The computer manufacturer can't be liable to damages after a storm.

 

[nastebu]

What is "other external cause" if it's not an act of god. If they are saying its electrical that's worded in the new policy, with act of god, and other external cause listed. If they include electrical from a electrical storm that is an an act of god and it shouldn't need to be listed twice; therefore, what is an act of god or other external cause?

Truly, this is a weak argument. Just because they clarified the policy doesn't it wasn't in force before. "external cause" surely covers a surge of electricity.

Going around and shouting about how Apple is doing you wrong will only tick people off and make it less likely that you will get your computer fixed. Suck up the simple truth that by the letter of the law, you're out of warranty here.

That being said, Apple might fix it anyway because they tend to be lenient about such things (which is why going to another store and trying to avoid repeating the lightning story too much is a good suggestion), but they certainly don't have to. So be nice, or check your home owners/renters insurance, or your credit card company, etc, and see if there is another way. But you're coming off as a person with an over-developed sense of entitlement, which is very unsympathetic.

 

[driftless]

Anecdotes are silly and not even remotely helpful, because they aren't necessarily repeatable. You heard from your friend that she received and exception. This does not establish any kind of precedence for anyone else. It's a different day under the discretion of a different employee. You have nothing here. You're just implying that perceived rudeness is the reason this was not repaired, and that as a matter of policy is ridiculous.

Of course anecdotes are useful. It was not meant to establish a precedence nor policy, that is silly. Yes, I am implying that the perceived rudeness of the OP might have been a contributing factor. As you said: "It's a different day under the discretion of a different employee". My point is just this: A person's attitude and presentation is always a factor in how they are treated.

 

[rkahl]

My iMac has been repaired under warranty, thanks Apple.

 

[Macman45]

What part of " it's not covered " do you not understand.

What part of " external cause " do you not understand?

You damage is the result of an " external cause " and you were crazy enough to tell Apple it was.

" Other external cause " is a term used to included any failure caused by anything outside of the computer.


Personally I will NEVER walk into Apple and say things like ....

" Hey I was drinking a cup of coffee when some spilled and ...... "

" Hey my ethernet port failed after we had a storm ... "



I will walk in, hand it to them and say ......

" Hey I think something is wrong ... "

Then it is up to them to determine the fault and cause.




I got some news for you, Apple might well have repaired your computer if you had not volunteered the storm information. They DO NOT have the ability to diagnose a component failure for damage like that, unless if course the computer was outside and directly hit by lightning. They'd have to begin dissecting components and examine them under a microscope or even an SEM.

This, I'm afraid says it all...The OP is paying the price for honesty...Had he done as suggested above ( and lets be honest here, who wouldn't) his Mac would now be in the process of having it's logic Board replaced. As it is, it's suck it up time.

 

[GermanyChris]

Uh, it's called a benefit. Don't hate because you don't have good benefits, that's your fault not mine. I graduated from college.

Well we happen to be on a high end computer forum where the cost of entry into the iMac world is $1200.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/24/education/census-finds-bachelors-degrees-at-record-level.html

This says that 30% of Americans have a degree so your chances of speaking to people with degees is pretty high here.

 

[rkahl]

This, I'm afraid says it all...The OP is paying the price for honesty...Had he done as suggested above ( and lets be honest here, who wouldn't) his Mac would now be in the process of having it's logic Board replaced. As it is, it's suck it up time.

Apparently many cannot read here, so let me repeat... Apple covered this repair. Honesty does pay and that's why it didn't cost me a thing.

 

[Jagardn]

Uh, it's called a benefit. Don't hate because you don't have good benefits, that's your fault not mine. I graduated from college.

Nice to see you wasting taxpayer money without a care. I have a college degree and great negotiating skills. I got a salary high enough to pay for my own legal battles.
You know it was not Apples fault, pay for your repair, or buys USB Ethernet adapter and be done with it. Complete waste of time to me.

 

[rkahl]

Nice to see you wasting taxpayer money without a care. I have a college degree and great negotiating skills. I got a salary high enough to pay for my own legal battles.
You know it was not Apples fault, pay for your repair, or buys USB Ethernet adapter and be done with it. Complete waste of time to me.

Wow! You sound pretty awesome.