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You realize that this proposal is in your interest, do you? If you are a consumer, that is.

And it's in the interest of generations to come for whom we'd like to leave a habitable planet.

Forcing manufacturers to make devices that last longer and are better repairable is a good thing.
I’m bored of that kind of narrative. You think this law is in your interest, I think it’s against. We don’t go against ourselves, we just have different opinions on whether this law will go in that direction.

And I think it’s innocent to think that regulating such a complex topic only has upsides.
 
While it is agreed security updates should be made available for up to 7 years, iPhone SE (1st Gen) is still receiving the latest version of iOS and upcoming iOS15. What EU should enforce is stopping them from reducing the performance of the phone with each major release of OS, it is clear that older phone are more than capable of handling the new OS...
They don’t reduce the performance, it’s just that newer devices have better and faster chips. This tech moves fast and customers want new features.
 
A bit too one-size-fits-all, isn't it?

And why 7? Seems like an arbitrary number of years.

Unintended consequences would be: higher prices and higher failure rate because some parts have to be designed to be more repairable while trading off reliability.
 
Do tell me how far Apple is off that mark? Perhaps someone who understands why Apple was singled out in the lede can explain how this impacts Apple much at all, let alone more than their competition? Here, let me help: how long after they stop selling it before Apple moves a product to the "vintage" list? How long before "obsolete" (when they no longer service them)? How old a device still receives iOS updates? How much of that is de jure policy and how much of it is de facto Apple's behaviour?
They can improve but are far for the worse. My gf 2015 iPhone 6s have iOS15 on it, so 6 years of support, not bad.

My mba 2013 still have the lastest OS, 8 years later! (but not sure if I can upgrade for the new in the coming weeks).

So yes for spare parts they can improve, but for is update they are pretty much there.
 
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Sounds like a fantastic proposal especially now that smartphones have reached maturity and most don’t need to upgrade yearly or even every five years. This will force phones to be better engineered so they last longer. The main issue here is when does the clock start on security updates, is it seven years from purchase or seven years from the OS version you installed a day ago on your seven year old phone?
7 years from date first available for sale is what makes the most sense.
 
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Some of you are hilarious. These rights protect YOU. The consumer.

Having said that, the UK Consumer Rights Law of 2015, actually demands that manufacturers repair their devices for up to 6 years. (I think you get just one measly year in the US???), in the EU we get 2 years, but the UK....you get 6 years.

Apple even have it in their own terms!


#JustSaying 🤣
 
What we need is a slowing down of chip manufacturing in the mobile space or to put it another way: I’d happily still play games on my 7 year-old Xbox One but I wouldn’t be happy using an iPhone 6 in 2021.

I’m not saying there should be a 8-year gap between phone releases like there is with game consoles but 2-3 years wouldn’t hurt.
Right, once religion forced technology to boom, now you want politicans do the same?
 
How would they define a spare part? Down to every tiny component? Or can manufacturers just name the entire motherboard as a single spare part?
 
This has nothing to do with quality. Selling spare parts doesn't mean your product is better built.



Date of first release is the most reasonable.



As long as people buy them on an annual basis they will build them.



That's the key - just because you require spare parts to be available doesn't mean they will be at the component level. The spare part list could very well be: Display, casing, battery, everything else on one board.



Apple already does 5 years IIRC on the OS, and phones have become disposables for most people.



I doubt it. Differentiation in key areas enables different price points.



It's not always hatred but an understanding that laws often touted to "look after the consumer interests" don't do that and often just result in higher prices as companies recoup their costs but nothing really changes. For example, let's say the law requires a company to deliver a spare part in X days. This will result in higher inventories and potentially express mail costs, raising the costs of repair. Since some % of the inventory will be obsolete at some point and never used, that has to be added to the initial costs.

Apple is doing just fine in the UK and they are subject to UK consumer protection (aka, 6 years of warranty).


This has little impact on the manufacturer's costs....if they maintain quality control (which Apple is pretty good at).

If you are a lousy business and sell crappy, poor-quality products, then yes. It'll most definitely affect you and deservedly so.
 
And why 7? Seems like an arbitrary number of years.

Unintended consequences would be: higher prices and higher failure rate because some parts have to be designed to be more repairable while trading off reliability.
Not sure why you sayd that 7 feels arbitrary. 10 would feels this since it look rounded but 7 ?

« higher failure rate because some parts have to be designed to be more repairable while trading off reliability. » : don’t know why the trade off had to be reliability. I think it would be the size of the device.
 
Security, yes. Repair parts, maybe not so much. Apple could probably do it, but android makers don’t build in the same quantity that Apple does.

I really dislike the EU dictating to American companies.

EU dictates nothing. If you sell a product in a country, you must comply country law; it is valid for everybody, also EU companies selling in USA, for e.g. in automotive, they must modify products explicitly to comply USA rules that are different from EU ones, if they want sell products in USA. Oh, by the way also in the USA themselves if I remember correctly they are (or at least some states have tried/proposed to do) slight different laws imposed to companies, right?

You can dislike this specific UE law (well, it is only a proposition in reality), but it is completely senseless the idea that a company based on a country is free apply only motherland laws, even if it sells in another country. You too, you will not like this, if a foreign company selling in USA, coming from a country much less consumer protective than USA, applies in USA the same laws than in they home country!

Then, personally I agree about this law proposition even if IMHO it should be depending on product. For a very low cost products it is a non-sense (imagine a 30$ cellphone, with low margin for the company and also any kind of repair will cost more than a new one, even with spare parts for free, simply because labour price), but for premium one, with higher margin, it is logic (IMHO also warranty should be longer for premium product). But my idea it is too complex to implement (no simple and deterministic way to have generic description into a law, between 'cheap' and 'premium' production)
 
And what happens when companies don’t or can’t comply? Some smartphones are cheap precisely because the manufacturer has no intention of providing long-term support for it, and it may not be economically feasible to continue to support a product that isn’t bringing in any money for the OEM.

Apple already has no problems supporting their iOS devices for 5-6 years minimum, so I am curious to see if Android OEMs will be held to the same standards as well.
 
Not sure why you sayd that 7 feels arbitrary. 10 would feels this since it look rounded but 7 ?

« higher failure rate because some parts have to be designed to be more repairable while trading off reliability. » : don’t know why the trade off had to be reliability. I think it would be the size of the device.
Any number without justification is arbitrary.

I was just pointing out one of many possible trade-offs, and I chose reliability because this law is supposed to make devices more "eco-friendly" but might backfire because devices would just fail at a higher rate.
 
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Why not 10 years? Or 20 for that matter?

I love seeming these examples of bureaucrats—who’ve likely never produced anything or met any customers’ need themselves—propose laws to force companies to operate how they imagine the company should.

Mandates like this ignore the economic complexity/reality of these products.
I know! Obviously, you are qualified and have the experience to make such judgements. Now, tell me why are you not managing this and making sure manufacturers can shaft consumers?
 
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How are they gonna enforce the updates? Do the updates have to come every X months? Or do they have to be Y size?
 
Guess only time will tell if mobile devices will reverse back to the 1990s when laptops are at least 3 times current price range. Part of the reason for those price (back then) was the Operating Costs for extensive parts storage as well as lack of economy of scale to run small quantity parts production when sudden surge runs the existing stock dry (esp. entering the 4-5th year). Back then, some laptop manufacturers had a 7 or 10 years parts available policy. But the parts are damn costly due to several factors.

Good luck EU. Ever wonder why the same iPhone retails at higher price in US and EU than some parts of the world? And maybe rest of the world if manufacturers decide to penalise all consumers in blanket policies instead of only those in EU.

Apple has largely been meeting this 5-years product cycle (software and hardware wise) so Apple is lesser impacted if the new regulation/law stays on 5 years. Android devices will be in for a serious rough journey given their business model have always been short runs with limited quantities + short lifecycle/lifespan and then move on to new models.

Quoting Steve Jobs: It is all about trade-offs.

In the US, products are listed without the required sales tax, etc.
In the EU, products are listed with sales tax, etc included.

Some products ( like electronics and vehicles ) are deemed luxury items and get hit with 20-25% luxury tax. Which is why every day Apple products are more expensive there.

Some products ( like powerful vehicles, or vehicles with big engines ) in some countries are deemed highly polluting, and therefor get penalized with extra duties; which is why you may see a car cost 25-50-…% more in parts of the EU versus USA.
 
You realize that this proposal is in your interest, do you? If you are a consumer, that is.

And it's in the interest of generations to come for whom we'd like to leave a habitable planet.

Forcing manufacturers to make devices that last longer and are better repairable is a good thing.
No, this is of interest to people that hold on to things longer than they should. This will have a negative effect on those that enjoy new things, and progression of new things since they will be hindered by 7 year old tech that has to be taken into consideration.
 
How about they do similar laws for car manufacturers? You buy $50k car only to find out that OS is already 5 years old and slow and laggy and there are no updates etc. Good cars are handicapped by crappy UIs :(
 
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