Germany Urges EU to Require 7 Years of Updates and Repairs for iOS Devices

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

Never really understood the hatred of laws that look after the consumer interests. I guess I fail at capitalism greed 101.

It's usually some kind of argument along the lines of businesses should be completely free to do what they want as the market (aka supply and demand) will ensure whether a product or service fails, and whether or not people need new phones every year or every five years.

Opponents of laws that protect consumers will also say that these types of laws hinder growth(aka increased profits for businesses) which in their opinion will eventually lead to stagnation and a decline in the overall wealth of our societies.

Personally, I can't quite decide which side of the argument I'm on: These laws do seem fair as smartphones have legitimately become necessities for being a part of modern society and thus can't be treated just like any other consumer product. Both businesses and civilians need smartphones for work and many other things, and they shouldn't have to buy spare parts or repairs at unfair prices, or literally be hindered in getting repairs.

On the other hand, I feel like people literally live inside their phones and tablets these days and most use them so much that they actually are quite worn down in 1-2 years. And if not worn down, then most of us will find any excuse to get the newest and best of the best, year after year.

Smartphones are essentially the new car, as much a status symbol, fashion and social capital as it is a compact computer, phone, camera, credit card, etc. People also upgrade these days to be fashionable, show their wealth, or just because they are bored. So I highly doubt these kinds of right-to-repair laws will really change a whole lot for anyone but the few who got off the consumerism train.

 

[rme]

Old EU bureaucrats snapping their fingers and wondering with what sorts of new BS they could come up.

Apple should ask them for a 15 billion a year device longevity subsidy in return ;-)

 

[rme]

Personally, I can't quite decide which side of the argument I'm on: These laws do seem fair as smartphones have legitimately become necessities for being a part of modern society and thus can't be treated just like any other consumer product. Both businesses and civilians need a smartphone and shouldn't have to buy spare parts or repairs at unfair prices, or literally be hindered in getting repairs.

The market can sort this out itself. People who care about this can buy Apple product, people who don't can buy Oppo or whatever. One size doesn't have to fit all.

 

[ThatsME.mr]

Security, yes. Repair parts, maybe not so much. Apple could probably do it, but android makers don’t build in the same quantity that Apple does.

I really dislike the EU dictating to American companies.

They don't dictate. They say: If you want to sell here you need to do THIS. That's what every government in the world does and is tasked to do.

 

[azentropy]

Sorry, but this is absolute nonsense.

Completely disagree. There is no free lunch. Regulations like this have consequences. People are naive to just think companies will just absorb the cost for this. What you would see is that there will be less frequent updates of hardware, there will be few models to select from, less options etc. If it requires that 7 year old phones are required to run the current OS version then you will see fewer updates to the OS as well as that older tech could hold back features. Or maybe if they just require "updates" is that phones will not support the latest OS versions for as long and instead get locked to a certain version that only get security updates. And/Or you will see an increase in prices.

While I agree with some of the intent of some of the requirements, there is a real danger in going too far and causing a backlash. My parents have my old iPhone 6 and 6+ which are perfect for their very low needs (and have them on a limited Red Pocket cell plan that costs about $100 a year). Last Christmas I wanted to get them Apple Watches as my dad has had some heart issues that the ECG monitor would be beneficial and my mom has COPD which the Oxygen sensor would be beneficial. However since the iPhone 6(s) don't support the Apple Watch 6s I'd have to upgrade their iPhones too! Maybe something like this would have helped, but would it be worth the costs.

 

[fischersd]

If you increase a company's warranty costs, they just build that into the pricing model. They can also keep those programs solely for EU products. They don't need to extend those programs to the rest of the planet, where there's no consumer pressure to do so.

Remember people complaining about the "Apple tax" - that products are more expensive elsewhere in the world? (some of that is import duties, obviously) - but some of it will also be the cost of the warranty/service programs for that region, should they be more demanding than what Apple built into their model for the US.

 

[beanbaguk]

So since Apple already does this, why the need for the law?

“Zero impact” seems a bit unrealistic. Again, if you’re a company that doesn’t currently operate this way, the law would require you to reallocate where/how you spend your resources — which seems like an impact to me.

Que? Honestly, your answer makes zero sense, but I'll try and decipher it nonetheless.....

Apple (as all other manufacturers), will work to the terms of the law.

• US warranty minimum - 1 year (sorry you lot)
• EU warranty minimum - 2 years
• UK warranty minimum - 6 years

So, right now, if my iPhone breaks, I will have 2 years of warranty to support me. Beyond that, I have to pay.

So with the new law, my warranty will be extended to 7 years, and Apple will be forced to provide this. Even if they like it or not.

However, as I've already alluded to, I don't believe it'll affect Apple very much. The quality of their products is generally excellent. There are a few warranty issues but let's face it; Even if there is a major QA issue after the statute of limitation, Apple usually does come forth and offer replacements. MacBook Pro display gate for example...I had my display replaced four years after I purchased my laptop, free of charge.

However, this is law protects consumers from crummy, poor quality manufacturers who don't have the same tolerances as companies like Apple. But it also protects you with devices you purchase from Apple.

The goal of this is to reduce waste and protect your hard-earned cash.

If you are a US business, and you don't like these new laws, don't do business with us in the EU. I'd rather keep my markets clean of crummy quality devices, but also bear in mind you are subject to these laws already (6 years), if you wish to trade in the UK.

It does make me wonder, as somebody has already mentioned....I wonder if this will also apply to technology in cars.. Namely a US brand that begins with a "T"..... 😅

 

[itunexify]

Security, yes. Repair parts, maybe not so much. Apple could probably do it, but android makers don’t build in the same quantity that Apple does.

I really dislike the EU dictating to American companies.

I dislike the US government and American companies spying European politicians and people, but this is the world my friend

 

[foobarbaz]

Sounds good in theory. But there is no demand for this supply. Nobody is going to order parts to repair a 6 year old phone.

So Apple needs to stock a large number of spare parts that will eventually be thrown away. (You can't build old parts on demand …)

A much better move for the environment and consumers would be just to extend mandatory warranties for 3 years. That means manufacturers have a financial interest in making the products repairable.

 

[beanbaguk]

Completely disagree. There is no free lunch. Regulations like this have consequences. People are naive to just think companies will just absorb the cost for this. What you would see is that there will be less frequent updates of hardware, there will be few models to select from, less options etc. If it requires that 7 year old phones are required to run the current OS version then you will see fewer updates to the OS as well as that older tech could hold back features. Or maybe if they just require "updates" is that phones will not support the latest OS versions for as long and instead get locked to a certain version that only get security updates. And/Or you will see an increase in prices.

While I agree with some of the intent of some of the requirements, there is a real danger in going too far and causing a backlash. My parents have my old iPhone 6 and 6+ which are perfect for their very low needs (and have them on a limited Red Pocket cell plan that costs about $100 a year). Last Christmas I wanted to get them Apple Watches as my dad has had some heart issues that the ECG monitor would be beneficial and my mom has COPD which the Oxygen sensor would be beneficial. However since the iPhone 6(s) don't support the Apple Watch 6s I'd have to upgrade their iPhones too! Maybe something like this would have helped, but would it be worth the costs.

If you increase a company's warranty costs, they just build that into the pricing model. They can also keep those programs solely for EU products. They don't need to extend those programs to the rest of the planet, where there's no consumer pressure to do so.

You contradict yourself completely.

 

[visualseed]

Never really understood the hatred of laws that look after the consumer interests. I guess I fail at capitalism greed 101.

I believe consumers should reward companies that look after their interest by giving them their business and avoiding those that don’t. In the end, these laws make it worse on consumers because it raises the cost of entry to a market and leaves the market with fewer players. Apple can afford to stock OEM replacement parts for 7 years and keep their OS patched for older devices. An upstart company with a great idea for a new smartphone cannot.

 

[beanbaguk]

If you increase a company's warranty costs, they just build that into the pricing model. They can also keep those programs solely for EU products. They don't need to extend those programs to the rest of the planet, where there's no consumer pressure to do so.

Remember people complaining about the "Apple tax" - that products are more expensive elsewhere in the world? (some of that is import duties, obviously) - but some of it will also be the cost of the warranty/service programs for that region, should they be more demanding than what Apple built into their model for the US.

If you run a reputable company with good quality control, this shouldn't worry you.

 

[beanbaguk]

Sounds good in theory. But there is no demand for this supply. Nobody is going to order parts to repair a 6 year old phone.

So Apple needs to stock a large number of spare parts that will eventually be thrown away. (You can't build old parts on demand …)

A much better move for the environment and consumers would be just to extend mandatory warranties for 3 years. That means manufacturers have a financial interest in making the products repairable.

You should read the thread before making such assumptions....

Legal - Apple Products and Consumer Laws in the United Kingdom - Apple

www.apple.com

That's right....they already do.

 

[beanbaguk]

I think I've argued my point enough, but it's amusing to see how people perceive how the consumer should be treated in different cultures......

 

[beanbaguk]

Apple should ask them for a 15 billion a year device longevity subsidy in return ;-)

And this is why people like you are not responsible for running countries, let alone multi-billion-dollar businesses. You do realise about 40% of Apple sales come from the EU and that is growing annually????

 

[fischersd]

If you run a reputable company with good quality control, this shouldn't worry you.

You're really over-simplifying things with this statement. If Apple doesn't stay on top of their costs, they won't have the money for a wide range of operating expenses, including the R&D costs that generate new products.

 

[Le0M]

I couldn't agree more with this proposal.
i really hope it goes through and get approved in full: 7 years of software and hardware support, and reasonable prices for ALL components.

 

[jlc1978]

Apple is doing just fine in the UK and they are subject to UK consumer protection (aka, 6 years of warranty).

Legal - Apple Products and Consumer Laws in the United Kingdom - Apple

www.apple.com

A few comments about the 6 year warranty:

1. Aren't Apple product prices higher in the UK, even ex-VAT? Look at the MB Air at 999 US$ and Pounds. Even with 20% VAT, it comes to 832 Pounds for the device or about $1100 depending on the exchange rate. Apple and others simply add anticipated costs to the initial price. In the US at least, it is also possible to purchase a product and not have to pay sales tax; do you get VAT refunds from EU purchase now that you are no longer part of the EU?

2. Your recourse is with the seller, which may not be Apple but one of their dealers, and if the defect is after what, 6 months you may be required to prove it existed at time of purchase. If the seller goes out of business you may be SOL.
3. While you may get a refund of purchase price, it can be prorated for the time you had the device and was able to use it.
4. Apple or the seller is not required to repair it but merely refund the prorated selling price.
5. If you bought it outside the UK you don't get those protections, even if you bring it into the UK.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

This has little impact on the manufacturer's costs....if they maintain quality control (which Apple is pretty good at).

Sure it will, buying and warehousing spare parts so you can ship them to repairers costs money.

If you increase a company's warranty costs, they just build that into the pricing model. They can also keep those programs solely for EU products. They don't need to extend those programs to the rest of the planet, where there's no consumer pressure to do so.

Which is what companies do.

Remember people complaining about the "Apple tax" - that products are more expensive elsewhere in the world? (some of that is import duties, obviously) - but some of it will also be the cost of the warranty/service programs for that region, should they be more demanding than what Apple built into their model for the US.

I find it humorous that people laud the consumer protections but want to buy devices in countries where they are cheaper and bring them home; which means their consumer laws are NA. Apple offers a worldwide warranty, which is good, but only for the duration in the country of sale.

I think I've argued my point enough, but it's amusing to see how people perceive how the consumer should be treated in different cultures......

Different cultures view things differently, not necessarily better or worse.

For example, a US consumer can buy a MacBook Air and AppleCare+ for about the same price as a UK consumer pays for the Air alone. Is the US deal arguably better or or worse since it only offers 3 years total for the same price but their is no proration and also offers a fixed repair cost for accidental damage; and you deal with Apple not a reseller who may or may not be around when you need repairs?

The UK requires 6 years, but allows proration. So if the machine loses 1/6 of its value per year, at what point is it cheaper for the seller to simply say here is 1/3 or 1/6 of the price, less VAT, thank you very much?
It depends on your viewpoint.

 

[EuroChilli]

I suppose they are free to avoid selling on the European market.

Not a bad idea, hardly anyone in Europe uses Apple products.

 

[beanbaguk]

You're really over-simplifying things with this statement. If Apple doesn't stay on top of their costs, they won't have the money for a wide range of operating expenses, including the R&D costs that generate new products.

I'm really not. And you are talking absolute baloney!

People will still buy new devices. One could argue this will generate more revenue for Apple since it means it can reach much wider and poorer groups of users with older devices. They still have to buy accessories, etc, etc.....they also buy into the App store, etc....

Once you are in one ecosystem, it's very hard to escape.

 

[rme]

And this is why people like you are not responsible for running countries, let alone multi-billion-dollar businesses. You do realise about 40% of Apple sales come from the EU and that is growing annually????

<25% of their turnover comes from Europe.

 

[spazzcat]

Never really understood the hatred of laws that look after the consumer interests. I guess I fail at capitalism greed 101.

Apple already supports software updates for 5 years. But I think people fail to see the negative side laws like this will create. Batteries are fine to mandate that you need to support for 5 years. Hardware breaks it, wears out, making companies have to full support fixing, or replacements will force much less creativity and progress from year to year then we are already seeing...

 

[iBluetooth]

Some of you are hilarious. These rights protect YOU. The consumer.

Having said that, the UK Consumer Rights Law of 2015, actually demands that manufacturers repair their devices for up to 6 years. (I think you get just one measly year in the US???), in the EU we get 2 years, but the UK....you get 6 years.

Apple even have it in their own terms!

Legal - Apple Products and Consumer Laws in the United Kingdom - Apple

www.apple.com

#JustSaying 🤣

Yes, we get 2 year warranty in EU. But we pay for it with higher prices. Electronics in general are always more expensive in the EU, compared with the US, and that's just not because we use 2 times their voltage.

 

[beanbaguk]

Not a bad idea, hardly anyone in Europe uses Apple products.

I guess those 40 odd billion in sales are a couple of peeps here and there...... what an outlandish load of claptrap.....

 

[iBluetooth]

complete buffoonery. Storage and manufacturing of parts that will most likely never be used? Technology is like fresh produce with an expiration date.

Perfect point. This may actually increase waist as more parts are needed for the seven years that then get thrown away.