...getting ready to cross the line and buy Apple!

[Stolid]

Then again I know faculty personally who believe "why would anyone NOT want to run Windows?", as well as others who are rabidly anti-Windows. Just because they're smart doesn't mean they've set their biases aside, apparently.

Heh; true. I find I get lots of hate for doing it though. Over here I always note I seem virulently pro-MS. I go talk to a friend of mine that wants to work for MS and have to defend UNIX. Both have their flaws and uses, strengths and weaknesses.
ie. (IMHOs):
xCode is trash compared to Visual Studio (um... Intellisense please?)
Drag-and-Drop is unparalleled on the Mac
Outlook is... Outlook *cringe*
etc. etc.
Mac really impressed me that they went UNIX and got away from 'lets track down the missing package' installs; which still make me cringe when I see Linux (as well as the complete lack of a unified UI design; which I understand is due to policy-freeness of X but still)

I find a lot of the arguments I hear about these sorts of things are silly:
I once heard an argument something like this:
"commercial software comes out all the time, but is buggy and crash prone. Open source software is very crash proof but takes forever to come out. We should have the Open Source people go code on commercial products and we'll get crash-free ones fast!" -- this was a serious argument.
Open Source avoids bugs because it has no release date. If MS said (and they have) "We need more time to work out bugs" people whine that its taking too long, if they put it out now people whine about the bugs.

anyway; to be honest what I really want to do is go talk to an Apple engineer about my laptop design . I'm quite proud of it -- I think its sorta Apple-ish but sorta not. I'll give details if you're curious, just Private-Message/AIM me.
Wow I got off topic.
*pull pull*
Yeah; CS programs need to get their acts together. Any 'real' CS student (IMO) needs to know about Windows and/or Mac (AKA "Consumer") programming and design, basic design patterns - not just OOP or some other buzzword, UNIX, multiple languages (I'd recommend 1 scripting highlevel, 1 midlevel like C, and assembly of some architecture) as well as design classes for HI, etc etc. Unfortunatly CS seems to be being treated as "Advanced IT" so you end up putting out 'really good' Sys-Admins of some sort or another who know how to code in one language in one design pattern. Blah.
Java support on the Mac is pretty good from what I've seen though; look at the "Intro to cocoa" video on Apple's developer page for the WWDC -- Java is built in to the system at the same level as Carbon/Cocoa according to that. So it should work decently .

 

[0s and 1s]

Note to self: Learn C#.

Is anyone a member to the Apple Developer program? I was wondering what the discount will be for a 12" PB.

 

[Krizoitz]

Note to self: Learn C#.

Is anyone a member to the Apple Developer program? I was wondering what the discount will be for a 12" PB.

Hardware Discount Info (US)

 

[Fukui]

Heh; true. I find I get lots of hate for doing it though. Over here I always note I seem virulently pro-MS. I go talk to a friend of mine that wants to work for MS and have to defend UNIX. Both have their flaws and uses, strengths and weaknesses.
ie. (IMHOs):
xCode is trash compared to Visual Studio (um... Intellisense please?)

Uh, whats this then?

 

[Stolid]

Uh, whats this then?

Well; tell me what preferences pane you turn that on in (seriously, please do); and if the answer is "you don't" then its not intellisense - its some form of context help (which can often be useful but the whole point of intellisense is to be automatic and noninterfering) - and the box is /way/ to big if something like that pops up every time I start typing a method I'll get in lots o trouble if I want to look through a list like that and covers some embedded 4-times statement (akin to: [[[[joe getMyog] action:Sit] praiseogReward] dismissog] for example) -- when I start looking at a 4 page, screen filling list of 'praise' enums or something I might get lost, and the whole point of intellisense is to let you explore options without needing to stop coding.

0s and 1s: just remember C# is really a .NET language Its one of the things I know I'm gonna hate not having in Apple-land. If you're gonna switch learn ObjectiveC. ((on the other hand, I've often heard "C# is similar to Java, only good", and I agree on what they mean: it should be easy to learn if you know Java)

 

[beefcake]

Jessica Simpson shouldn't be allowed to speak. Just sit there and look blonde.

Fixed

 

[0s and 1s]

Stolid: Could I use ObjectiveC on the Mac?

It looks like I got it down to a 15" PB for $2000:

PowerBook 15" 1GHz
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS
80GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)

I don't need the Mac NOW, so I'm thinking about waiting until June. Even though it's going to be tough.

And that new Office04 looks great. I can't wait!

 

[Stolid]

Stolid: Could I use ObjectiveC on the Mac?

It looks like I got it down to a 15" PB for $2000:

PowerBook 15" 1GHz
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS
80GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)

I don't need the Mac NOW, so I'm thinking about waiting until June. Even though it's going to be tough.

And that new Office04 looks great. I can't wait!

Looks good. If you're waiting till June though; might wanna wait till July -- if no new PBs as of then chances are VERY good at WWDC.
ObjectiveC is the 'de facto' Cocoa/MacOSX language.

 

[jazzmfk]

...Jessica Simpson shouldn't be allowed to open her mouth....

um......I can think of a few instances where this particular activity might actually be encouraged.......can't you?


Sorry so sophmoric. Can't help it.

....resume topical discussion.....

 

[0s and 1s]

OK...now I got it. This is what I'm getting for 2120.

PowerBook 1.25GHz 15"
80GB Ultra ATA drive @ 4200 rpm
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
AirPort Extreme Card

I'll get more memory later...now the hard part is waiting until June....or should I?????

 

[Fukui]

Well; tell me what preferences pane you turn that on in (seriously, please do); and if the answer is "you don't" then its not intellisense - its some form of context help (which can often be useful but the whole point of intellisense is to be automatic and noninterfering) - and the box is /way/ to big if something like that pops up every time I start typing a method I'll get in lots o trouble if I want to look through a list like that and covers some embedded 4-times statement (akin to: [[[[joe getMyog] action:Sit] praiseogReward] dismissog] for example) -- when I start looking at a 4 page, screen filling list of 'praise' enums or something I might get lost, and the whole point of intellisense is to let you explore options without needing to stop coding.

 

[bryanc]

I'm talking about the MSN software....and I don't know why my school's program wants us to focus on Java...no C, C#, B flat, etc. They're probably funded by Sun.

I think you'll find your mac will be a great investment. I encourage you to consider going up to a powerbook, as I think you'll find the iBook underpowered (although, as others have suggested, RAM is generally the bottleneck more than the CPU).

The developer tools that come with any mac are wonderful, and will do Java (as well as C, C#, and possibly others soon).

Given that all the Office apps, and most other major commercial applications are available as native OS X apps, the only things I could see you needing VPC for would be to test your programs for cross-platform compatibility, or for running some obscure PC-only program (don't even think about playing games under VPC on an iBook).

Let us know what you decide.

Cheers

 

[0s and 1s]

I think you'll find your mac will be a great investment. I encourage you to consider going up to a powerbook, as I think you'll find the iBook underpowered (although, as others have suggested, RAM is generally the bottleneck more than the CPU).

The developer tools that come with any mac are wonderful, and will do Java (as well as C, C#, and possibly others soon).

Thanks for the help! I don't think I'll get the VPC after all.

This is what I'm going to get from apple with the edu. discount for 2120:

PowerBook 1.25GHz 15"
80GB Ultra ATA drive @ 4200 rpm
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
AirPort Extreme Card

I can't wait...

 

[Stolid]

Thanks for the help! I don't think I'll get the VPC after all.

This is what I'm going to get from apple with the edu. discount for 2120:

PowerBook 1.25GHz 15"
80GB Ultra ATA drive @ 4200 rpm
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
AirPort Extreme Card

I can't wait...

For that much look at getting an ADC Student membership for $100 dollars - you'll probably get the system at a developer price for a difference greater than 100 over the education.

 

[wordmunger]

I hate to play devils advocate but I really feel I have to.
#2) The Mac's "Top level" menu bar violates proximity. If I put a window at the bottom of the screen it breaks my attention if I need to go to the top of the screen to perform an action. And if I click too early -- focus on another app or the finder and I have to go /all the way back/ to the bottom-of-screen app and click it and start over. I can use keyboard shortcuts but when I use the mouse its normally because I haven't memorized the shortcut for that act yet.

Perhaps, but the top-level menu is easier to use because you can just slam the mouse all the way up to the top. I find the Windows menus very difficult to access because I have to precisely locate the mouse 40 pixels or so below the top of the screen. Also, if I have multiple windows open within an app I never have to try and figure out which is the "active" window--just go to the top and select the menu item I want.

 

[Stolid]

Perhaps, but the top-level menu is easier to use because you can just slam the mouse all the way up to the top. I find the Windows menus very difficult to access because I have to precisely locate the mouse 40 pixels or so below the top of the screen. Also, if I have multiple windows open within an app I never have to try and figure out which is the "active" window--just go to the top and select the menu item I want.

The 'infinite top' I have heard before and won't argue with (despite the fact I misclick far more often on the Mac machines I use and end up having to go back and select the first app; I'm sure that with practice I'll quit this) - but on the active window... wow, complete opposite
In Windows I always know where a menu will effect - it affects the window it is bound to; with Mac I have to watch the whole screen for which ever document is active. If I misclick on the desktop then all of a sudden I'm in finder. Worse; I could misclick another app and (assuming my eyes don't catch the change in focus and name on the bar, more likely than you might think if you're 'in the flow') perform an operation (say, cut, which is in both) and get myself in real trouble.
A lot of this is acquired habits I think though; for example I very rarely open a menu by hand. I open it by Alt-(Letter) and then mouse over what I want. Now when I do go for it with the mouse I find it very easy to acquire the menu - but again, that's the acquired habit thing I think.

Note: Here I could /completely/ be mistaken
I just thought about why I seem to have so much more trouble acquiring a menu with the mouse on the Mac; so I reversed the question and asked why I'm so good with it on PC. It occured to me that when I ran KDX in "Mac mode" that I didn't have acquisistion problems. So; correct me if I'm wrong here; I did a quick test and went to a menu in Opera -- menus change color when acquired; so I associate that change (since my eyes are focused on the menu I'm acquiring) with 'click now' -- I don't seem to recall the Mac's menu changing color until you click it. So my instincts are over-rided. I could /easily/ be mistaken here; I don't have a Mac nearby to make sure this is the behavior.


Wheee; Off-topicness

 

[wordmunger]

The 'infinite top' I have heard before and won't argue with (despite the fact I misclick far more often on the Mac machines I use and end up having to go back and select the first app; I'm sure that with practice I'll quit this) - but on the active window... wow, complete opposite
In Windows I always know where a menu will effect - it affects the window it is bound to; with Mac I have to watch the whole screen for which ever document is active. If I misclick on the desktop then all of a sudden I'm in finder. Worse; I could misclick another app and (assuming my eyes don't catch the change in focus and name on the bar, more likely than you might think if you're 'in the flow') perform an operation (say, cut, which is in both) and get myself in real trouble.

Hmmm... I think usually if I want to do a command that is window-specific (rather than app-specific), I use the keyboard. So the "which window will it apply to" question doesn't apply. Expose also solves a lot of the problems you allude to--just use it to make sure you've got the right window first.

menus change color when acquired; so I associate that change (since my eyes are focused on the menu I'm acquiring) with 'click now' -- I don't seem to recall the Mac's menu changing color until you click it. So my instincts are over-rided. I could /easily/ be mistaken here; I don't have a Mac nearby to make sure this is the behavior.

Umm... no, Macs' menus never change color. Never had a problem with this, though. Does that happen on windows? Just by mousing over them? I'm pretty sure it doesn't (correct *me* if I'm wrong), but it would be annoying if it did.

 

[Stolid]

See:

 

[0s and 1s]

Finally! I'm writing from my brand new 15" PB!! I love it...and I thought it was going to be hard using a Mac...but I'm just in awe. Two questions.

How can I set up email to work with MSN? I don't know where to find info for outgoing/ingoing mail server, etc.

How can I move my music from my iTunes on my PC to my PB?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[aswitcher]

Finally! I'm writing from my brand new 15" PB!! I love it...and I thought it was going to be hard using a Mac...but I'm just in awe. Two questions.

How can I set up email to work with MSN? I don't know where to find info for outgoing/ingoing mail server, etc.

How can I move my music from my iTunes on my PC to my PB?

SNIP

Glad to hear another happy switcher...now if only the G5PB would appear.

Yes, good questions. Hopefully you'll get an answer soon, although I am more curiosu about getting them out of media player...

 

[0s and 1s]

Playing with my PB and I can't find XCode. The site says that it should come with the latest OS, but I can't seem to find it. Besides this, are there any other Java dev. programs you folks recommend? As of now, I'll mostly do simple Java apps. and applets. Thanks a lot! G'night....

 

[whooleytoo]

Playing with my PB and I can't find XCode. The site says that it should come with the latest OS, but I can't seem to find it. Besides this, are there any other Java dev. programs you folks recommend? As of now, I'll mostly do simple Java apps. and applets. Thanks a lot! G'night....

It should come on a separate Xcode CD, if not, I believe the installer should be in the /Applications/Installer (or at least it used to be).

The biggest Java hitch for me is J2ME development (for PDAs and smart phones). Sun hasn't ported the wireless toolkit to the Mac (so much for Write Once Run Anywhere... grrr!).

Other than that Xcode should be fine for Java, or Java Cocoa development.

 

[0s and 1s]

I'm still having problems trying to find xcode and uploading iPod music to the iTunes on this PB. Any help would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks.

 

[0s and 1s]

I'm still having problems trying to find xcode and uploading iPod music to the iTunes on this PB. Any help would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks.

Ok, I just found xcode! Joy! Now to the iPod upload....

 

[kylos]

Ok, I just found xcode! Joy! Now to the iPod upload....

Go to terminal and type:
ditto /Volumes/<your ipod name>/iPod_Control/Music /Users/<your user name/Desktop/music
use double quotes to surround your ipod's name.Obviously, <your ipod name> and <your user name> are to be replaced with the real names.
this'll copy your tunes to your desktop. Now in iTunes, choose File>Add to Library... Locate the folder "music" on your desktop and import.

Or download one of the many apps that will do this for you.


I should clarify, if you have any more than 30 - 35 gigs of music on your ipod, then this method won't work (not enough space on your p'book). Regardless, after importing, you'll need to delete the folder on your desktop.

you could also go to finder then choose go>go to folder... and type /Volumes/<your ipod name>/iPod_Control/Music/F00.
Then drag the folder icon in the window's title bar to your desktop, holding down the option and apple keys to create an alias to this folder. Then choose this alias from itunes. Repeat this for all the F folders (they continue in order F00, F01, F02, etc). This has the benefit of skipping the step of creating an extra copy, but will take a while longer.