Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

myfoneisdank

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 28, 2009
166
45
I'm baffled that not a single news outlet or forum is discussing this. This to me is potentially the killer feature this year in an extremely lackluster and downright embarrassing keynote yesterday. As a summary it is essentially a 5g "lite" that allows for network speeds up to 400mb. If you live in a big city like NYC, dealing with congestion and office buildings this is a game changer. The number one thing I hate the most with my 6S+ living in NYC is the network speed. I have no interest in any of the bells and whistles except this. I am aware that these new phones do not have 5g capability when it rolls out next year.

Does anyone have any more info on this. Does it actually work? Which carriers support it, what markets is it currently in, etc?
 
At this point, it's more of a spec checkbox in many areas, but if you're in certain areas that have carriers supporting 4x4 MIMO or carrier aggregation, you can get some pretty good speeds, but gigabit is still a theoretical peak.

T-Mobile has been the most up-front about upgraded areas (link in article) and it may help a little with congestion, but you're still limited by the available spectrum. Coverage won't necessarily be better, unless the new phones are able to pick up frequencies inside buildings that your older ones couldn't (again, as an example, T-Mobile folks saw a big jump from the 6 to the 6S because that one added LTE Band 12).

Unfortunately, as everyone is also not upgrading devices to take advantage of these features, you'll have users parked on bands that are more congested, so some of the issues will still happen there, too. In my area, AT&T tends to move people to Band 30 if possible for extra capacity, but phones have to support it.

Further reading: https://www.cnet.com/how-to/gigabit-lte-crazy-fast-wireless-speeds-explained/
 
Whenever new standards come out, such as 3G, 4G, LTE, 5G, I just wish that the companies would work on existing networks and coverage, instead of launching new standards that don't work well outside of urban environments.

I don't live in a city, and I care more about good coverage than speed.

Having a really fast theoretical connections doesn't matter to me if I only have two bars.

Honestly, I'd rather have full great coverage with mediocre speeds than great speeds with spotty coverage.
 
I don't know why people don't talk about network technology and modems more. The bad news is that these are all using Intel radios, so they will have poor reception, slow LTE acquisition, and slower speeds, especially during heavy network congestion than competing phones that are using Qualcomm's X20 radio.
 
Whenever new standards come out, such as 3G, 4G, LTE, 5G, I just wish that the companies would work on existing networks and coverage, instead of launching new standards that don't work well outside of urban environments.

I don't live in a city, and I care more about good coverage than speed.

Having a really fast theoretical connections doesn't matter to me if I only have two bars.

I have family in some more rural areas and I think many of the carriers are working on this, just it's not as exciting to advertise. Lower-band spectrum allows for a signal to travel further and everyone is trying to rework what they can.

AT&T shut down their EDGE network, typically on 850MHz, and some of that has been reused for LTE that travels a decent distance (they can also deploy it where they don't have 700MHz spectrum). AT&T also has 700MHz Band 14 for FirstNet (for first responders), which is being built out and AT&T customers will be able to access that, too.

T-Mobile has recently gotten a lot of Band 71 600MHz spectrum (with some TV stations moving to free this up) and that's being deployed. They're also still deploying some Band 12 700MHz in places and refarming some of their HSPA (4G) frequencies for LTE.

I'm not sure about Verizon, and Sprint is sort of in maintenance mode pending the T-Mobile merger talks.

For both of the new bands (14 and 71), you'll need a phone that supports those bands and Apple is only now adding them on the Xs and Xr. This was similar to LTE Band 12, which was T-Mobile's other low-band LTE frequency, which the 6 lacked and 6S added. A friend who lives in a T-Mobile area with that frequency saw their signal go from 1 bar to 4 after upgrading devices.

Mosot of the initial 5G is going in the higher-bands, so it's not going to travel as far (think FM vs AM radio), but that won't affect the developments of the lower band services.
 
  • Like
Reactions: graphiteevo
I have family in some more rural areas and I think many of the carriers are working on this, just it's not as exciting to advertise. Lower-band spectrum allows for a signal to travel further and everyone is trying to rework what they can.

AT&T shut down their EDGE network, typically on 850MHz, and some of that has been reused for LTE that travels a decent distance (they can also deploy it where they don't have 700MHz spectrum). AT&T also has 700MHz Band 14 for FirstNet (for first responders), which is being built out and AT&T customers will be able to access that, too.

T-Mobile has recently gotten a lot of Band 71 600MHz spectrum (with some TV stations moving to free this up) and that's being deployed. They're also still deploying some Band 12 700MHz in places and refarming some of their HSPA (4G) frequencies for LTE.

I'm not sure about Verizon, and Sprint is sort of in maintenance mode pending the T-Mobile merger talks.

For both of the new bands (14 and 71), you'll need a phone that supports those bands and Apple is only now adding them on the Xs and Xr. This was similar to LTE Band 12, which was T-Mobile's other low-band LTE frequency, which the 6 lacked and 6S added. A friend who lives in a T-Mobile area with that frequency saw their signal go from 1 bar to 4 after upgrading devices.

Mosot of the initial 5G is going in the higher-bands, so it's not going to travel as far (think FM vs AM radio), but that won't affect the developments of the lower band services.

Those are all entirely valid points. However, LTE coverage is still far from universal on any network, even the mighty Verizon. There are still a lot of areas with weak service, gaps between towers, or poor quality roaming coverage that barely works. It's gotten better, but not quickly, and it seems that carriers are more focused on urban 5G build-out to compete with cable internet than universal rural LTE coverage.
 
Do the new iPhone's have Qualcomm modems?

The one that I HATE about my iPhone X is that it has the Intel modem. I can tell it sucks. The phone is basically useless indoors and without a wi-fi connection.
 
Do the new iPhone's have Qualcomm modems?

The one that I HATE about my iPhone X is that it has the Intel modem. I can tell it sucks. The phone is basically useless indoors and without a wi-fi connection.

They are all Intel, and yes, they will all have poor reception compared to Qualcomm-based Android phones or older Qualcomm-based iPhones.
 
Do the new iPhone's have Qualcomm modems?

The one that I HATE about my iPhone X is that it has the Intel modem. I can tell it sucks. The phone is basically useless indoors and without a wi-fi connection.
Mine works fine indoors, I'm on AT&T and in an office building now with no reception issues. Your carrier plays as much of a roll as your radio.

Verizons frequency is better suited for indoors than AT&Ts. Tmobiles new 600mhz band 71 will greatly improve indoor reception for them.
 
Those are all entirely valid points. However, LTE coverage is still far from universal on any network, even the mighty Verizon. There are still a lot of areas with weak service, gaps between towers, or poor quality roaming coverage that barely works. It's gotten better, but not quickly, and it seems that carriers are more focused on urban 5G build-out to compete with cable internet than universal rural LTE coverage.

Oh, absolutely - I think the urban vs rural thing for carriers will always have a few things at play - more potential customers in a service area means more $$$, but more actual customers in those areas also means that they have to be able to serve those customers with added capacity and such. I suspect many carriers are trying to figure out if coverage vs urban coverage is a better return on investment and that's lead to varying levels of service (T-Mobile has really done a lot for fast speeds in cities, and AT&T has left a big hole in Nebraska for years).

I have found that the low-density areas with decent coverage have led to interesting services—AT&T did a standalone 250GB or 500GB LTE data plan for $40 or $80 for rural areas and it appears to be automatically deprioritized automatically in denser environments (with good signal, it was hitting maybe 5Mbps at my place, but taking it to a family member's house where it was being used, they were getting 40Mbps). This particular plan was an amazing option compared with the 1.5Mbps DSL service. Obviously, there's some hacky ways to do home internet over cellular, but for a family member that just wants decent working internet at a reasonable price, it's a neat alternative. They've also done some fixed wireless services (I think runs on Band 30) in rural areas, too.
 
Mine works fine indoors, I'm on AT&T and in an office building now with no reception issues. Your carrier plays as much of a roll as your radio.

Verizons frequency is better suited for indoors than AT&Ts. Tmobiles new 600mhz band 71 will greatly improve indoor reception for them.

I have AT&T. Unlimited Premium & More plan or something like that.
 
I have AT&T. Unlimited Premium & More plan or something like that.
So in an office building it's fine. But in a brick building i'll lose reception. Verizon signals, due to the lower(or is it higher?) frequencies, can penetrate better.
Tmobiles 600mhz frequency they say is 4x better at penetrating buildings. And the signal goes twice as far as their current frequencies but you need a phone that uses band 71 which the new iphones do. We'll see how they looks in the real world. Here's a list of current 600mhz supported cities for tmobile: https://www.t-mobile.com/content/da...to-rico/T-Mobile-600-MHz-Cities-and-Towns.pdf
 
  • Like
Reactions: ecschwarz
So in an office building it's fine. But in a brick building i'll lose reception. Verizon signals, due to the lower(or is it higher?) frequencies, can penetrate better.
Tmobiles 600mhz frequency they say is 4x better at penetrating buildings. And the signal goes twice as far as their current frequencies but you need a phone that uses band 71 which the new iphones do. We'll see how they looks in the real world. Here's a list of current 600mhz supported cities for tmobile: https://www.t-mobile.com/content/da...to-rico/T-Mobile-600-MHz-Cities-and-Towns.pdf

Lower tends to penetrate better, and Verizon (Band 13), T-Mobile (Band 12), and AT&T (Band 12/17, 14) all use 700MHz in a lot of places, just slightly different slices and for different purposes. Depending on where you are, AT&T might also use 2, 4, 5, or 30, so there isn't a one-size-fits-all explanation of coverage. You might want to fire up Field Test Mode on your iPhone and see what bands it's connecting to:

- Open Phone, Dial *3001#12345#* and push the Call button
- Depending on the modem (Intel or Qualcomm) the menu is a little different, but Serving Cell Info and Freq Band Indicator are what the Qualcomm ones say (similar language on Intel) and it will have a number.

Typically on my iPhone on AT&T, I see a mix of 4, 12, and 30 - you can translate to these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_frequency_bands

Lower bands typically travel further, but aren't as fast - that's why carriers use a mix (not to mention what they're licensed to use in each area). There's also the question of Verizon's tower might just be closer to a building than an AT&T one.

There's also a lot of Qualcomm vs. Intel complaints on here and while there are some cases where Qualcomm modems might be better, it won't magically turn a zero-bars area into full. In some places, both will just have no service.
 
Lower tends to penetrate better, and Verizon (Band 13), T-Mobile (Band 12), and AT&T (Band 12/17, 14) all use 700MHz in a lot of places, just slightly different slices and for different purposes. Depending on where you are, AT&T might also use 2, 4, 5, or 30, so there isn't a one-size-fits-all explanation of coverage. You might want to fire up Field Test Mode on your iPhone and see what bands it's connecting to:

- Open Phone, Dial *3001#12345#* and push the Call button
- Depending on the modem (Intel or Qualcomm) the menu is a little different, but Serving Cell Info and Freq Band Indicator are what the Qualcomm ones say (similar language on Intel) and it will have a number.

Typically on my iPhone on AT&T, I see a mix of 4, 12, and 30 - you can translate to these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_frequency_bands

Lower bands typically travel further, but aren't as fast - that's why carriers use a mix (not to mention what they're licensed to use in each area). There's also the question of Verizon's tower might just be closer to a building than an AT&T one.

There's also a lot of Qualcomm vs. Intel complaints on here and while there are some cases where Qualcomm modems might be better, it won't magically turn a zero-bars area into full. In some places, both will just have no service.
If I'm reading this right I'm on band 2. On AT&T.
 
If I'm reading this right I'm on band 2. On AT&T.

That sounds about right - Band 2 is the 1900MHz band and doesn't penetrate in buildings well at all. If you go outside or somewhere else and try, you might pick up another signal. If you want to get geeky, this site will show what frequencies are licensed to which carriers in different areas: https://specmap.sequence-omega.net
 
I'm baffled that not a single news outlet or forum is discussing this. This to me is potentially the killer feature this year in an extremely lackluster and downright embarrassing keynote yesterday. As a summary it is essentially a 5g "lite" that allows for network speeds up to 400mb. If you live in a big city like NYC, dealing with congestion and office buildings this is a game changer. The number one thing I hate the most with my 6S+ living in NYC is the network speed. I have no interest in any of the bells and whistles except this. I am aware that these new phones do not have 5g capability when it rolls out next year.

Does anyone have any more info on this. Does it actually work? Which carriers support it, what markets is it currently in, etc?
nobody is talking about it because this was the technology most every other high end phone hand LAST YEAR
In truth the Qualcomm version of the X and 9 had this but Apple GIMPED it so they would perform the same as the intel phone. So if you want to talk bout it- "Congrats they ungimped our phones this year" would be a place to start.

so that's why
 
I'm baffled that not a single news outlet or forum is discussing this. This to me is potentially the killer feature this year in an extremely lackluster and downright embarrassing keynote yesterday. As a summary it is essentially a 5g "lite" that allows for network speeds up to 400mb. If you live in a big city like NYC, dealing with congestion and office buildings this is a game changer. The number one thing I hate the most with my 6S+ living in NYC is the network speed. I have no interest in any of the bells and whistles except this. I am aware that these new phones do not have 5g capability when it rolls out next year.

Does anyone have any more info on this. Does it actually work? Which carriers support it, what markets is it currently in, etc?

Because its yawn, meh. IPhone X was behind when it only did 800mbps LTE. Playing catchup more than a year late is meh.

Playing catchup, and playing catchup when capability is only theoretical 800 to 1000mbps... is double meh.

My iPhoneX has been speed-testing fast.com 290-300mbps LTE since release. There is no story in going faster on a mobile device.
 
Mine works fine indoors, I'm on AT&T and in an office building now with no reception issues. Your carrier plays as much of a roll as your radio.

Verizons frequency is better suited for indoors than AT&Ts. Tmobiles new 600mhz band 71 will greatly improve indoor reception for them.

So in an office building it's fine. But in a brick building i'll lose reception. Verizon signals, due to the lower(or is it higher?) frequencies, can penetrate better.
Tmobiles 600mhz frequency they say is 4x better at penetrating buildings. And the signal goes twice as far as their current frequencies but you need a phone that uses band 71 which the new iphones do. We'll see how they looks in the real world. Here's a list of current 600mhz supported cities for tmobile: https://www.t-mobile.com/content/da...to-rico/T-Mobile-600-MHz-Cities-and-Towns.pdf

You're very confused. AT&T and Verizon both have low-band in most markets, unless you're in Eastern Oklahoma or parts of Nebraska where AT&T doesn't have low band other than the recently acquired B14.

Lower frequencies penetrate better, which is why AT&T and Verizon were ahead of Sprint and T-Mobile for so long. 600mhz isn't much better than 700mhz or 850mhz, they are comparing it to the B4 AWS 1700/2100 holdings which is fine for them, but not relevant to comparing to AT&T and Verizon.

Further, Qualcomm devices will hold a signal longer than Intel devices, and individual phones can vary in signal reception. Samsung used to suck, now they are top dog.

Because honestly there isn't much I want iPhone to do that it can't do with standard LTE.

You clearly don't understand what gigabit LTE does. It's not just about top speeds. 4x4 MIMO helps with weak area signal reception, and higher numbers of carriers aggregated deal with congestion more effectively. The problem is, the Intel radios perform poorly, so Qualcomm radios will still perform better.

Lower bands typically travel further, but aren't as fast - that's why carriers use a mix (not to mention what they're licensed to use in each area). There's also the question of Verizon's tower might just be closer to a building than an AT&T one.

There's also a lot of Qualcomm vs. Intel complaints on here and while there are some cases where Qualcomm modems might be better, it won't magically turn a zero-bars area into full. In some places, both will just have no service.

You're right in practical terms, but technically, lower frequency bands aren't any slower in theory than higher frequency, they just end up being used for devices that are indoors or at the cell's edge, which are less efficient, and sometimes in tough signal environments, many devices end up on those low bands, leaving the high bands with fewer users and more capacity for the devices that are close enough to pick those up.

Qualcomm radios aren't magic, but they will hold a usable data signal in many places that an Intel radio will not. Certainly not full bars, they're probably at one bar of LTE if the Intel iPhone has no service on the same carrier, but that one bar might be DSL-speed data, compared to the pre-internet days for the iPhone. Interestingly, in-car Wi-Fi systems that use LTE can often connect several miles farther out from a tower than even a Qualcomm phone due to their more powerful antennas that are mounted up higher, away from animals full of water like homo sapiens, and more powerful radios/amplifiers that are running off of the car's electrical system and thus don't have power efficiency considerations at play. They could effectively eliminate small gaps in coverage, but obviously if there's no tower anywhere nearby, at some point they will lose service.

My iPhoneX has been speed-testing fast.com 290-300mbps LTE since release. There is no story in going faster on a mobile device.

First of all, you're not always getting 250mbps+ on any phone unless you're in a very small area, and never leaving that area. In fact, you don't always have service on any phone on any carrier unless you never go much of anywhere. Most of the LTE networks are in the low double-digit range much of the time, and none of them even have coverage everywhere at all.

Secondly of all, you clearly don't get it. The Qualcomm X20 radio is not just about raw speed, it's about having a connection when other phones don't.
[doublepost=1536898298][/doublepost]
Oh, absolutely - I think the urban vs rural thing for carriers will always have a few things at play - more potential customers in a service area means more $$$, but more actual customers in those areas also means that they have to be able to serve those customers with added capacity and such. I suspect many carriers are trying to figure out if coverage vs urban coverage is a better return on investment and that's lead to varying levels of service (T-Mobile has really done a lot for fast speeds in cities, and AT&T has left a big hole in Nebraska for years).

I have found that the low-density areas with decent coverage have led to interesting services—AT&T did a standalone 250GB or 500GB LTE data plan for $40 or $80 for rural areas and it appears to be automatically deprioritized automatically in denser environments (with good signal, it was hitting maybe 5Mbps at my place, but taking it to a family member's house where it was being used, they were getting 40Mbps). This particular plan was an amazing option compared with the 1.5Mbps DSL service. Obviously, there's some hacky ways to do home internet over cellular, but for a family member that just wants decent working internet at a reasonable price, it's a neat alternative. They've also done some fixed wireless services (I think runs on Band 30) in rural areas, too.

Yes, urban areas, especially ones that are growing quickly with a young and mobile population are just way more profitable. A small cell in a major metro market will often reach more potential customers than putting a 250' tower up in the middle of nowhere. That being said, AT&T and Verizon built their brand on having coverage in all sorts of places for when people travel, so people are willing to pay more to have coverage in rural areas, otherwise everyone would have gotten Sprint or T-Mobile.

AT&T relies heavily on roaming, like in Nebraska with Viaero. Their holes in Iowa and Wisconsin are totally inexcusable though. They literally could pick up the phone, tell USCC they want roaming turned on there, and they would have the problem solved with LTE. It's pretty ridiculous.

Yeah, AT&T has a lot of spectrum depth, and they did those plans, the Unlimited hotspot plans, the Unlimited iPad plans, and the FWI, which is a separate system that runs on B30 and is able to capture government subsidies for rural broadband. I've heard pretty bad things about it, but in theory it could be interesting, as it's more heavily sectorized than mobile, and uses much higher gain antennas. However, as of right now, for rural users, nothing beats the Unlimited iPad plan, where you just take the SIM card and put it in a hotspot.
 
You clearly don't understand what gigabit LTE does. It's not just about top speeds. 4x4 MIMO helps with weak area signal reception, and higher numbers of carriers aggregated deal with congestion more effectively. The problem is, the Intel radios perform poorly, so Qualcomm radios will still perform better.
You answered your own question.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.